Teams & Riders Team Jumbo-Visma

Page 52 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

I guess van Aert made it clear he expects team support when going for green. As the truth is on how on earth can you get the green on Tour without that anyway.

That much for Dennis body checking Colbrelli back. Roglič will need to do that too. Some boxing lessons it is then. For the optimal prep for the 2022 season.
 
Dumoulin wants to do the Tour, IMO. But not as a pure dom for Roglic, Van Aert, Vingegaard, obviously. But he'll be okay with doing some work if he can target the 2nd ITT and go for stage wins.

If Pog doesn't crash out or loses time in the first week I don't think they'll have to carry the race, even if Roglic is in the lead. They know by now just how dangerous Pog is.

I would go with

Roglic
Van Aert
Vingegaard
Dennis
Dumoulin
Kuss
LaPorte
Teunissen

...if Dumoulin's mental health is okay. It would be a huge mistake to leave Kuss at home, IMO, seeing as he and Roglic are so close. Teunissen has proven his worth as a sprint lead-out and is pretty good on the cobbles.
 
Dumoulin wants to do the Tour, IMO. But not as a pure dom for Roglic, Van Aert, Vingegaard, obviously. But he'll be okay with doing some work if he can target the 2nd ITT and go for stage wins.

If Pog doesn't crash out or loses time in the first week I don't think they'll have to carry the race, even if Roglic is in the lead. They know by now just how dangerous Pog is.

I would go with

Roglic
Van Aert
Vingegaard
Dennis
Dumoulin
Kuss
LaPorte
Teunissen

...if Dumoulin's mental health is okay. It would be a huge mistake to leave Kuss at home, IMO, seeing as he and Roglic are so close. Teunissen has proven his worth as a sprint lead-out and is pretty good on the cobbles.
Puh, that's quite a puzzle Jumbo has to solve there.
Each of them, Roglic, van Aert and Vingegaard deserves a leader's role. And Dumoulin doesn't only want to be a helper, either, but the Giro this year has hardly any time trial kms. o_O Not easy to figure this out properly...
 
At least it was done already. That is for the same team to win yellow and green in the same year. Never mind the fact we have to go all the way back to 2001 to find such team.

Personally i am not all that convinced. I mean we love JV for being JV. That is not being Ineos or Movistar. But somehow i feel that in 2022 it will be expected from Roglič to win the Tour and to do that by having a mediocre team support. And the biggest problem i see is if Roglič wouldn't win, the team as a whole likely won't take that as a personal defeat. That is the main problem i see. Not the fact that there are different goals involved and will be pursued. But the likelihood of individual team members not actually caring all that much if JV wins Tour 2022 or not. If they don't do it IMHO each and every one of them should feel ashamed or at least to take it as a personal defeat. And on the contrary if they do it each and every one of them should feel pride and take it as a personal victory.

We'll see.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Sandisfan
And that doesn’t even consider Groenewegen or Bennett.
Groenewegen is delusional if he thinks he has a place in a TDF team at TJV. I've said this before, but he's better off at another team if that's his ambition.

Van Aert can win just as many sprints (maybe not in the same stages, but the same amount over 3 weeks), doesn't need babysitting in every somewhat difficult stage or a 4 man leadout, and he can contribute to GC goals of his GC leader in many stages where he has no goals of his own.

Search for yellow with Roglic/Dumoulin/Vingegaard is much easier to combine with the search for green with Van Aert, than it is to combine it with Groenewegen as a sprinter on the team.
 
I don't really see what's the problem with having van Aert chasing green, if he's going to contest all the flat sprints, where a man or two should be enough as help for him, then taking extra points in hilly/mountain stages by acting as last man for Roglic instead of dropping early should be enough for green and if he climbs like in the Tirreno he could easily do that, and in some stages that suit both they could just both sprint.

The real odd one here is Vingegaard if they have to fit him as protected rider.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
Groenewegen is delusional if he thinks he has a place in a TDF team at TJV. I've said this before, but he's better off at another team if that's his ambition.

Van Aert can win just as many sprints (maybe not in the same stages, but the same amount over 3 weeks), doesn't need babysitting in every somewhat difficult stage or a 4 man leadout, and he can contribute to GC goals of his GC leader in many stages where he has no goals of his own.

Search for yellow with Roglic/Dumoulin/Vingegaard is much easier to combine with the search for green with Van Aert, than it is to combine it with Groenewegen as a sprinter on the team.
I don’t mean him riding the Tour but in the teams Grand Tour squad makeup. They should absolutely go with the team 18 Valve said but who will they send to the other two? Vingegaard and Dumoulin might want to ride Giro or Vuelta or Roglic back to Vueta. Then if Kuss wants leadership at let’s say the Vuelta.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
At least it was done already. That is for the same team to win yellow and green in the same year. Never mind the fact we have to go all the way back to 2001 to find such team.

Personally i am not all that convinced. I mean we love JV for being JV. That is not being Ineos or Movistar. But somehow i feel that in 2022 it will be expected from Roglič to win the Tour and to do that by having a mediocre team support. And the biggest problem i see is if Roglič wouldn't win, the team as a whole likely won't take that as a personal defeat. That is the main problem i see. Not the fact that there are different goals involved and will be pursued. But the likelihood of individual team members not actually caring all that much if JV wins Tour 2022 or not. If they don't do it IMHO each and every one of them should feel ashamed or at least to take it as a personal defeat. And on the contrary if they do it each and every one of them should feel pride and take it as a personal victory.

We'll see.
2001 is a timely comparison, as the '01 Telekom team was very much all-in for GC and Zabel was much to his own devices. That said, they nearly lost it as a result. That year was O'Grady's best opportunity for sure - Zabel didn't get green back until Paris.

Wout is obviously more capable of picking up points from the break than Zabel was, but it's worth bearing in mind that once you're in the fight for green you are much more heavily marked in terms of getting into the break on the easier parts of those transitional stages. If it's a hard uphill start, of course you'd back Wout to get himself up the road without the other sprinters, but you only need to look at Quickstep vs. Sagan in 2020 to see how difficult it can be on the less selective starts. It's also much harder to force things in that situation if you're flying solo with the rest of your guys looking after another leader.
 
Yea, this year hi finished 166 points back with 9 stages scoring points. It’s doable if the max a sprinter wins is 2 or 3 and he wins 3 or more again while getting better placing and intermediate. Then you have Colbrelli finishing 56 ahead of him when over half was from intermediates.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
2001 is a timely comparison, as the '01 Telekom team was very much all-in for GC and Zabel was much to his own devices. That said, they nearly lost it as a result. That year was O'Grady's best opportunity for sure - Zabel didn't get green back until Paris.

Wout is obviously more capable of picking up points from the break than Zabel was, but it's worth bearing in mind that once you're in the fight for green you are much more heavily marked in terms of getting into the break on the easier parts of those transitional stages. If it's a hard uphill start, of course you'd back Wout to get himself up the road without the other sprinters, but you only need to look at Quickstep vs. Sagan in 2020 to see how difficult it can be on the less selective starts. It's also much harder to force things in that situation if you're flying solo with the rest of your guys looking after another leader.
2001 was however a decent example how it can be done to have hybrid domestiques supporting both your GC guy and the sprinter. I remember Zabel taking back a shitload of points at intermediate sprints in the last week because he had Vino leading him out with Telekom dominating the front of the peleton while O'Grady had no one.
Having said that, Telekom is also a good example that in the long run, having an ongoing Green jersey vs yellow jersey debate in your team is potentially not the best idea.

I'm a bit torn on the issue. I think the whining how Roglic doesn't get JV support is way over the top and I think it's reasonable for WVA to want to have a go at Green. Having said that, him bringing that up at every interview opportunity is definitely starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth. It's fair to mention it once but he has now constantly talked about it for weeks, maybe he should focus a bit more on the first half of the season before trying to influence how JV should approach the Tour.
 
2001 was however a decent example how it can be done to have hybrid domestiques supporting both your GC guy and the sprinter. I remember Zabel taking back a shitload of points at intermediate sprints in the last week because he had Vino leading him out with Telekom dominating the front of the peleton while O'Grady had no one.
Having said that, Telekom is also a good example that in the long run, having an ongoing Green jersey vs yellow jersey debate in your team is potentially not the best idea.

I'm a bit torn on the issue. I think the whining how Roglic doesn't get JV support is way over the top and I think it's reasonable for WVA to want to have a go at Green. Having said that, him bringing that up at every interview opportunity is definitely starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth. It's fair to mention it once but he has now constantly talked about it for weeks, maybe he should focus a bit more on the first half of the season before trying to influence how JV should approach the Tour.
There's a big difference between a rider having a free enough role to pursue green and making sacrifices in the team selection at the expense of Roglic. The former is fine. The latter is ridiculous.

Yes, van Aert is a great rider. But let's not pretend the green jersey is more than it is and for Sagan a season with a green jersey would easily be a failed season if he didn't win a monument or WC.
 
Dumoulin wants to do the Tour, IMO. But not as a pure dom for Roglic, Van Aert, Vingegaard, obviously. But he'll be okay with doing some work if he can target the 2nd ITT and go for stage wins.

If Pog doesn't crash out or loses time in the first week I don't think they'll have to carry the race, even if Roglic is in the lead. They know by now just how dangerous Pog is.

I would go with

Roglic
Van Aert
Vingegaard
Dennis
Dumoulin
Kuss
LaPorte
Teunissen

...if Dumoulin's mental health is okay. It would be a huge mistake to leave Kuss at home, IMO, seeing as he and Roglic are so close. Teunissen has proven his worth as a sprint lead-out and is pretty good on the cobbles.
Definitly can´t see Laporte in the squad. I would change him with Kruiswijk, Gesink or Foss. Depends who of these riders prefer to ride the giro. Thats´s also the case for Dumoulin and perhaps Kuss..
 
Dumoulin is a big unknown because judging by that WF interview he wouldn't want to ride for stages but for his own GC if possible. So if they want the trident idea again I could see Dumoulin being game for that. Fitting Dumoulin in is easy, you don't need Kruijswijk if you have Dumoulin.

Dumoulins problem in 2020 wasn't having to ride for Roglic. It was physical issues that in turn led to mental issues and a really stupid decision to blow up the Peyresourde.

Kruijswijk, Groenewegen and Foss are all no brainer Giro picks for me.
 
Reactions: Luthor
Laporte feels like a luxury pick but could be very useful in Denmark and the first week. Maybe not JV, but I think we'll see a few teams go for a BMC 2011-style team (heavy on the heavies) to give their leader the best chance of surviving to the mountains, even at the expense of a climber domestique or two.
 
I don't really see what's the problem with having van Aert chasing green, if he's going to contest all the flat sprints, where a man or two should be enough as help for him, then taking extra points in hilly/mountain stages by acting as last man for Roglic instead of dropping early should be enough for green and if he climbs like in the Tirreno he could easily do that, and in some stages that suit both they could just both sprint.

The real odd one here is Vingegaard if they have to fit him as protected rider.
You said you don't really see a problem but then described the problem in detail. First if two JV members are in a sprint train. Who is protecting Roglič back in the bunch? Kuss? Sprinting with van Aert for points? Imagine the smile on Pogačar face when he would witness that.

But OK. It's life.
 
2001 was however a decent example how it can be done to have hybrid domestiques supporting both your GC guy and the sprinter. I remember Zabel taking back a shitload of points at intermediate sprints in the last week because he had Vino leading him out with Telekom dominating the front of the peleton while O'Grady had no one.
Having said that, Telekom is also a good example that in the long run, having an ongoing Green jersey vs yellow jersey debate in your team is potentially not the best idea.

I'm a bit torn on the issue. I think the whining how Roglic doesn't get JV support is way over the top and I think it's reasonable for WVA to want to have a go at Green. Having said that, him bringing that up at every interview opportunity is definitely starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth. It's fair to mention it once but he has now constantly talked about it for weeks, maybe he should focus a bit more on the first half of the season before trying to influence how JV should approach the Tour.
Yes, if van Aert wants green he'll have to compete in the intermediates and he'll be trolled by Sagan and Quickstep.
And, this green jersey stuff is beginning to sound like the Worlds all over again.
 
Reactions: Carols
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Samu Cuenca Professional Road Racing 32

ASK THE COMMUNITY