Teams & Riders Team Visma - Lease a Bike

[CyclistAbi]

Yeah, all in all:

Page 31 - Tour de France - Stage 6: Bayeux – Vire-Normandie (201.5k)

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The usual, apply fatigue. Pogi wanted a bigger gap today, to avoid jersey duties and contest the stages, Visma denied that altogether. Pogi now only thinking about contesting a stage and he is back wearing a jersey again.

Visma fatiguing Pogi during the stage and journalist after it, no way around it.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Everyone (indluding me) has been critical of Visma's tactics. Heck, Van Garderen and Bookwalter droned on and on about it today more than any other topic.

The one caveat I have is that Visma is not the type of team that says "Hey guys, to ride hard today for no reason, just to show everyone how hard we are, and to p!ss everyone off." They take the marginal gains approach to the fullest extent. They are an F1 team translated to cyclng. This is the team that took video of opponents, and analysed it in real time, to send messages to the team about the fatigue of those riders. There may be some guess work in what they are doing, but I would suggest that there is far more calculation than guessing. They have a plan. Their plan involves beating the best cyclist to ever throw his leg over a bike. The inherent risk in any plan to beat Teddy is that you can't beat Teddy, no matter what you do. Their plan may not work, but no plan will likely work if Teddy continues to be who he has been all season.

What I see is that I think they have decided that making things as hard for him and his team as possible, in hopes that their team will outlast them, energy wise. Also, Teddy is feeding into their plan in some ways. Just yesterday, he chased Jorgensen (logically so), but also came to the front when Campenarts tried to go with a break. UAE has decided that they won't allow any Visma's in the break. Visma's #1 plan may have been to get someone in the break, and when that didn't happen (with anyone of consequence), plan #2 was to make Teddy keep using energy and team, which they did. They are also letting their riders fall well back when they have given some of their effort, but not all of their effort.

I don't think any plan will ultimately beat Pog, if this year is any gauge, but Visma thinks there is a chance, and I will say that Pog in years past, has looked fresh as a daisy after early, mid, and late Tour stages...look at him the last 2 days...that ain't a daisy we're seeing. He looks like he's been in a battle. Sure, so does everyone on Visma (and UAE), but that is a difference. Also, Vingegaard looked pretty good after every stage, except the TT.

Call them stupid, as stupid they may be, but they could also be doing the only thing that might get them a win, and with the scientific approach they take to everything, I would submit they aren't flying blind.

 

[theyoungest]

Everyone (indluding me) has been critical of Visma's tactics. Heck, Van Garderen and Bookwalter droned on and on about it today more than any other topic.

The one caveat I have is that Visma is not the type of team that says "Hey guys, to ride hard today for no reason, just to show everyone how hard we are, and to p!ss everyone off." They take the marginal gains approach to the fullest extent. They are an F1 team translated to cyclng. This is the team that took video of opponents, and analysed it in real time, to send messages to the team about the fatigue of those riders. There may be some guess work in what they are doing, but I would suggest that there is far more calculation than guessing. They have a plan. Their plan involves beating the best cyclist to ever throw his leg over a bike. The inherent risk in any plan to beat Teddy is that you can't beat Teddy, no matter what you do. Their plan may not work, but no plan will likely work if Teddy continues to be who he has been all season.

What I see is that I think they have decided that making things as hard for him and his team as possible, in hopes that their team will outlast them, energy wise. Also, Teddy is feeding into their plan in some ways. Just yesterday, he chased Jorgensen (logically so), but also came to the front when Campenarts tried to go with a break. UAE has decided that they won't allow any Visma's in the break. Visma's #1 plan may have been to get someone in the break, and when that didn't happen (with anyone of consequence), plan #2 was to make Teddy keep using energy and team, which they did. They are also letting their riders fall well back when they have given some of their effort, but not all of their effort.

I don't think any plan will ultimately beat Pog, if this year is any gauge, but Visma thinks there is a chance, and I will say that Pog in years past, has looked fresh as a daisy after early, mid, and late Tour stages...look at him the last 2 days...that ain't a daisy we're seeing. He looks like he's been in a battle. Sure, so does everyone on Visma (and UAE), but that is a difference. Also, Vingegaard looked pretty good after every stage, except the TT.

Call them stupid, as stupid they may be, but they could also be doing the only thing that might get them a win, and with the scientific approach they take to everything, I would submit they aren't flying blind.

During two Tours they won the so-called "experts" were also droning on and on about Visma's tactics after every stage... until they were vindicated, but of course the Chris Horners of this world will never admit they were wrong about anything. It's part of the financial model of podcasters and Youtubers, you don't generate clicks by just broadcasting reasonable opinions. Either a team has to be a collection of utter morons or they have to be utter geniuses, there is no middle ground.

Their tactic is so obvious, it's the same every time, and we don't know if it will work this time but it's the only choice they have. And even if it doesn't work in the end, good luck trying to come up with something better, Tejay van Garderen (I didn't know that guy still existed btw). They're up against probably the most talented cyclist ever who has one potential weakness they're trying to exploit.

 

[Rob5091]

Looking at the weather for the Pyrenees next week, it's going to be hot, so Visma's team tactics will be interesting. The MTT will be particularly brutal.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Looking at the weather for the Pyrenees next week, it's going to be hot, so Visma's team tactics will be interesting. The MTT will be particularly brutal.

It will be around 30-31°. Combloux was at 29°C. So I don't know if the weather will make any difference.

 

[Red Rick]

It really just seems like preaching to the choir. They criticize a strategy but really they don't provide any viable alternative. They know Pogacar is most likely gonna win and then they'll pat themselves on the back "see we we're right we are amazing analysts" before flexing in front of a mirror.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I don't doubt that Visma-LAB will try very hard to beat Pogacar. Regardless of the outcome, this should make the race more interesting. I wouldn't be that surprised if they try something even tomorrow (middle mountain stage) or today (echelons).

 

[Tim Cahill]

Pogacar vs Vingegaard fresh efforts
Pogacar vs Vingegaard after days/weeks of fatigue

You take the chance with option 2 always, is it going to work, probably not, but it's the only way they can conceivably ride. There is nobody else credible enough to use as a second leader. Only really Evenepoel at the moment could be used in that role, but they don't have him.

Jorgenson should suicide attack though, Pogacar doesn't seem to like him that much and looks to be chasing him down personally, you could try and bait him into making a silly move.

They probably can't beat him physically, so they are going with the Alex Ferguson vs Kevin Keegan tactic. It's all fair game, as I've said before he should just not respond at all to it. Visma are sending out Niermann and Jorgenson to talk mess whilst Vingegaard just smiles and waves and say's he doesn't pay any attention to that sort of stuff.

 

[Red Rick]

I have devised one secret strategy, but I won't tell you and I'm just awaiting the Visma phone call when they lose faith in their current consultant.

 

[Tim Cahill]

I have devised one secret strategy, but I won't tell you and I'm just awaiting the Visma phone call when they lose faith in their current consultant.

I secretly think he was reading our posts and used the ultramythical 2014 'sandbag the Dauphine' tactic but don't want to say it out loud incase he loses 3 minutes on the first mountain.

 

[CyclistAbi]

The plan likely is to get Rogla ahead.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I have devised one secret strategy, but I won't tell you and I'm just awaiting the Visma phone call when they lose faith in their current consultant.

If I speak I'm in trouble but...I know what Visma needs to do to win the Tour: drop Pogacar. Grischa & Trine had better read this post before it's too late.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pogacar vs Vingegaard fresh efforts
Pogacar vs Vingegaard after days/weeks of fatigue

You take the chance with option 2 always, is it going to work, probably not, but it's the only way they can conceivably ride. There is nobody else credible enough to use as a second leader. Only really Evenepoel at the moment could be used in that role, but they don't have him.

Jorgenson should suicide attack though, Pogacar doesn't seem to like him that much and looks to be chasing him down personally, you could try and bait him into making a silly move.

They probably can't beat him physically, so they are going with the Alex Ferguson vs Kevin Keegan tactic. It's all fair game, as I've said before he should just not respond at all to it. Visma are sending out Niermann and Jorgenson to talk mess whilst Vingegaard just smiles and waves and say's he doesn't pay any attention to that sort of stuff.

1. Spot on! This is the only way I see Visma winning.

2. Spot on again!

 

[Bolder]

I have devised one secret strategy, but I won't tell you and I'm just awaiting the Visma phone call when they lose faith in their current consultant.

The lanterne rouge guy?

 

[Kedjan]

So there is a fear that Pog will drop a bomb on Hautacam. Does this mean that Visma should go hard on Col du Solour to dry to drop Wellens, Soler, Narvaez, a hurt Almeida, so that Pog doesn't have a strong train on Hautacam? It seems obvious that Vinge has a bigger chance of following a Pog attack that isn't set up with a brutal pace by his doms.

 

[Peyroteo94]

So there is a fear that Pog will drop a bomb on Hautacam. Does this mean that Visma should go hard on Col du Solour to dry to drop Wellens, Soler, Narvaez, a hurt Almeida, so that Pog doesn't have a strong train on Hautacam? It seems obvious that Vinge has a bigger chance of following a Pog attack that isn't set up with a brutal pace by his doms.

I think they should do it and pray for every UAE to be dropped. If not, they are playing into Pogacar's hands.

 

[YavorD]

So there is a fear that Pog will drop a bomb on Hautacam. Does this mean that Visma should go hard on Col du Solour to dry to drop Wellens, Soler, Narvaez, a hurt Almeida, so that Pog doesn't have a strong train on Hautacam? It seems obvious that Vinge has a bigger chance of following a Pog attack that isn't set up with a brutal pace by his doms.

I actually think they will, and should, try to kill everyone on Solour and try to send Jorgenson in some early attack (especially if UAE are really hurt) before the final climb to try and lure Pogacar into some silly move.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

So the mountains are approaching: crucial time for Visma-LAB. No doubts that the main tacticians of the team (Grischa & Trine) are wondering how to outsmart Teddy, whose main tactic is simply pushing the pedals harder.

 

[Oldman]

Everyone (indluding me) has been critical of Visma's tactics. Heck, Van Garderen and Bookwalter droned on and on about it today more than any other topic.

The one caveat I have is that Visma is not the type of team that says "Hey guys, to ride hard today for no reason, just to show everyone how hard we are, and to p!ss everyone off." They take the marginal gains approach to the fullest extent. They are an F1 team translated to cyclng. This is the team that took video of opponents, and analysed it in real time, to send messages to the team about the fatigue of those riders. There may be some guess work in what they are doing, but I would suggest that there is far more calculation than guessing. They have a plan. Their plan involves beating the best cyclist to ever throw his leg over a bike. The inherent risk in any plan to beat Teddy is that you can't beat Teddy, no matter what you do. Their plan may not work, but no plan will likely work if Teddy continues to be who he has been all season.

What I see is that I think they have decided that making things as hard for him and his team as possible, in hopes that their team will outlast them, energy wise. Also, Teddy is feeding into their plan in some ways. Just yesterday, he chased Jorgensen (logically so), but also came to the front when Campenarts tried to go with a break. UAE has decided that they won't allow any Visma's in the break. Visma's #1 plan may have been to get someone in the break, and when that didn't happen (with anyone of consequence), plan #2 was to make Teddy keep using energy and team, which they did. They are also letting their riders fall well back when they have given some of their effort, but not all of their effort.

I don't think any plan will ultimately beat Pog, if this year is any gauge, but Visma thinks there is a chance, and I will say that Pog in years past, has looked fresh as a daisy after early, mid, and late Tour stages...look at him the last 2 days...that ain't a daisy we're seeing. He looks like he's been in a battle. Sure, so does everyone on Visma (and UAE), but that is a difference. Also, Vingegaard looked pretty good after every stage, except the TT.

Call them stupid, as stupid they may be, but they could also be doing the only thing that might get them a win, and with the scientific approach they take to everything, I would submit they aren't flying blind.

It might be the only thing that might get them a win. Wout has a 2nd.
If they were more judicious about using their guys it would make more sense. Applying absurd vigilance of Jonas' presence at the front for 100kms each race and using their arguably equally talented #2 to accomplish it is wasteful.
Once, maybe, twice; if there was a payoff. Regularly using Jonas' and Matteo's energy to patrol the front as a strategy will be judged by tomorrow's stage. It may not even be Tadej that delivers the really bad news as there are 5 others in the top 10 on GC that better rested and poised to capitalize.

 

[Kedjan]

Nail in the coffing and end of an era.

You wonder about the strategy. The level of the riders today weren't imressive. Vinge was isolated on Hautacam. But it wouldn't have matter, Visma's GC rider is just not good enough.

Time for reassessment.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Glad I won't listen Griesha and Plugge anymore

 

[Pozzovivo]

But they made Pogacar ride very hard today. The chess game has started!

 

[Valv.Piti]

It's time to throw the make everything hard theory out the window. Especially the more flat and punchy stages, like how do you honestly believe that benefits Jonas over Pog?

Anyways they tried, but no legs today

 

[Kedjan]

Will Patrick Broe get fired now?

 

[Nerlo]

I'm just here to witness the downfall of this team. The future looks bleak!