Teams & Riders Team Jumbo-Visma

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

I would go with

Roglic
Van Aert
Vingegaard
Dennis
Dumoulin
Kuss
LaPorte
Teunissen

I agree. These eight riders should be JV‘s TdF team 2022.

I‘m especially looking forward to seeing Dennis riding for Roglic in the mountains. Dennis was so strong in 2020 Giro when riding in the mountains for TGH…

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Groenewegen is delusional if he thinks he has a place in a TDF team at TJV.

I tend to agree with you. Groenewegen and also Ackermann are at teams that have no business taking them to the Tour, even if either of them is the unquestioned top dog sprinter in the first half of the season.

I also think it’s unlikely that Alpecin will try a two sprinter approach again, so one of Merlier and Philipsen won’t be there. And Jakobsen and Cavendish are also on the same team. And there are sprinters who were top contenders reasonably recently and might potentially recover form who definitely won’t be going, Gaviria, Viviani, etc.

The Tour sprint field is going to be considerably shallower than that of races like the UAE Tour for the foreseeable future. if there are a couple of injuries or bad runs of form, we could see sprint fields as bad as the remarkable one this year.

Groenewegen has to be moving on after next year, right? Surely he’s not being paid enough to accept never having a go at the Tour again?

 

[roundabout]

I don't really see what's the problem with having van Aert chasing green, if he's going to contest all the flat sprints, where a man or two should be enough as help for him, then taking extra points in hilly/mountain stages by acting as last man for Roglic instead of dropping early should be enough for green and if he climbs like in the Tirreno he could easily do that, and in some stages that suit both they could just both sprint.

The real odd one here is Vingegaard if they have to fit him as protected rider.

Probably it won't make a difference in the end in both competitions, but on finishes like Longwy and Lausanne van Aert and Roglic could be sprinting against each other. If I understand you correctly, it seems that you are suggesting that Roglic gets priority on these finishes?

Then there is also the cobbled stage which could potentially be very critical if van Aert goes for green. Seems like some potential for conflict of interests there depending on the way that stage develops.

Edit: Megeve stage could be a point of conflict as well - whether the team should work to have van Aert contest the win and whether van Aert or Roglic would be the main finisher in that scenario

 

[Nirvana]

Probably it won't make a difference in the end in both competitions, but on finishes like Longwy and Lausanne van Aert and Roglic could be sprinting against each other. If I understand you correctly, it seems that you are suggesting that Roglic gets priority on these finishes?

Then there is also the cobbled stage which could potentially be very critical if van Aert goes for green. Seems like some potential for conflict of interests there depending on the way that stage develops.

Edit: Megeve stage could be a point of conflict as well - whether the team should work to have van Aert contest the win and whether van Aert or Roglic would be the main finisher in that scenario

No, in that type of finishes I think they should both do their own sprint, in uphill sprints, but also very reduced flat sprints, it's not a big problem having two riders doing their own sprint unless they purposely go for a clash. We've seen a lot times teams doing that and also pulling an 1-2 with that tactic.

Anyway even if Roglic gets priority van Aert could lead him out and then finish in the top 10 that still means gaining points over the sprinters.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Groenewegen has to be moving on after next year, right? Surely he’s not being paid enough to accept never having a go at the Tour again?

He was one of the top earners at TJV last i heard. I think only Roglic, Dumoulin and since last year Van Aert get paid more. I think changing teams will likely come with a lower paycheck.

 

[roundabout]

No, in that type of finishes I think they should both do their own sprint, in uphill sprints, but also very reduced flat sprints, it's not a big problem having two riders doing their own sprint unless they purposely go for a clash. We've seen a lot times teams doing that and also pulling an 1-2 with that tactic.

Anyway even if Roglic gets priority van Aert could lead him out and then finish in the top 10 that still means gaining points over the sprinters.

It's possible that both sprinting would work fine in both competitions, but it is also possible that they will be taking seconds/points away from each other and it will matter in the end. That's all.

 

[Red Rick]

He was one of the top earners at TJV last i heard. I think only Roglic, Dumoulin and since last year Van Aert get paid more. I think changing teams will likely come with a lower paycheck.

3 years ago Groenewegen was Jumbo's biggest name to be honest. He was on the way to being the top dog sprinter while Roglic was maybe a potential GT winner, and they didn't have Van Aert or Dumoulin yet.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Or Roglič can take his Vuelta team for a Giro-Vuelta double attempt. Send the rest to the Tour. To sort it out. And to go after yellow in 2023.

Nah, not buying it. Sponsors do want yellow and don't care much about everything else.

Hence at best van Aert could likely influence the decision to include one cyclist of his choice in the Tour squad. Groenewegen? A cyclist that would normally not make it. A promise to try to blow up the race on cobbles in return. From Roglič point of view he could still get 4 great climbers in great form. To try to frustrate Pogačar. When trying to get that 2 minute advantage. The biggest problem i guess is the team dynamics of going for green or yellow is different. It could end up not suiting Roglič to the extent it could suit him if yellow would be the only goal.

Beyond that and at some point it will likely come down to a mano-a-mano fight in between Roglič and Pogačar anyway.

 

[CyclistAbi]

What would look bad is if Roglič would constantly get isolated way before the real action would begin. In that case JV would deserve to get some special achievements award. I can agree with that.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Yeah, if i would be van Aert i would take Groenewegen. Without some penance Groenewegen likely won't ever come back to the level he once was. He hence should be motivated and prepared to do it. That is to be a part of the sprint train working for van Aert on Tour 2022.

The truth is it would be unreasonable to expect from Dennis to do both. Do a stellar job for Roglič regarding GC and to do a stellar job as a part of the sprint train for van Aert. And in addition to get a green light to pursue some personal ambitions on a stage or two. If he could do all that then he would win the Tour on his own and that would be that.

Now obviously Dennis can set some pace in bunch sprint stages but mostly to fall back as a body guard for Roglič. To leave the final part of the stage for Dylan van Aert. Obviously for Dylan van Aert to utilize some proper team trains after to their advantage. Benefit from the GC point of view would be that on most of the bunch sprint stage there would be somebody like Dennis, his back protected by Groenewegen, his back protected by van Aert and i guess Roglič trailing behind. In worst case scenario Dennis still protecting Roglič.

All in all good luck body checking that.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Mind blown. Why on earth would any other rider chose to take Groenewegen? A guy who has LITERALLY said he would or could never work for another rider. And even if he would now start working for Van Aert, what would he be doing? He needs to be babysat after himself all the time. Best he could do is fetch bottles in the first 75k of a stage. He's also unfit to be in the sprint train imho. So if he would be of any use for the team, it would be in sprints, so i don't see why Van Aert would take a rival from his own team for the stages he wants to win himself.

 

[Anderis]

it's not a big problem having two riders doing their own sprint unless they purposely go for a clash.

It's not a problem until Van Aert takes bonus seconds away from Roglic that will decide the GC or Roglic takes points away from Van Aert that will decide the green jersey.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Logic-is-your-friend

Exactly.

Under no other circumstances a rider like Groenewegen would work for you. To be a part of your sprint train. That is under no other but his current situation.

It's his ticket back. Public will never accept his wins again if he doesn't do some penance beforehand. As for what his contribution would be is to secure the wins for van Aert in the last 500m or so. Nothing more or less than that. As a consequence Dennis could focus more on his main objective.

All in all if i would be van Aert i would likely take Groenewegen. As Groenewegen could make a difference for me. Up to that 500m van Aert can hold his own anyway. Where he is lacking the most is that final 50(0)m or so.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

@Logic-is-your-friend

Exactly.

Under no other circumstances a rider like Groenewegen would work for you. To be a part of your sprint train. That is under no other but his current situation.

It's his ticket back. Public will never accept his wins again if he doesn't do some penance beforehand. As for what his contribution would be is to secure the wins for van Aert in the last 500m or so. Nothing more or less than that. As a consequence Dennis could focus more on his main objective.

All in all if i would be van Aert i would likely take Groenewegen. As Groenewegen could make a difference for me. Up to that 500m van Aert can hold his own anyway. Where he is lacking the most is that final 50(0)m or so.

I fear you are gravely overestimating exactly what Groenewegen would be able to offer in a supporting role.

 

[BlueRoads]

Lol, is that supposed to be a serious discussion, Groenewegen to the Tour as a helper for van Aert?

If that happens I think Pogacar should bring Hodeg as his domestique, too.

 

[Bonimenier]

Groenewegen as a domestique for van Aert to the Tour. That's a good one

 

[yaco]

I reckon if both riders were in top form, then I'd back Groenewegen to get better results than Van Aert in bunch sprints.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I reckon if both riders were in top form, then I'd back Groenewegen to get better results than Van Aert in bunch sprints.

Yeah? Not unless Groenewegen gets a sprint train, which is never gonna happen. Also, while he certainly could do better on some finishes, there would be other finishes where Van Aert would have better chances.

 

[AlfaLum]

On pure flats Groenewegen in top form would probably be better than van Aert.

On any other stage Wout is much better.

Then also take into account that there are probably only 2-3 other sprinters that can produce the same speed as Groenewegen in top-form. So the chances of Wout winning those flats sprints are still there.

So as long as Wout is on the Jumbo roster it does not make any sense to take Groenewegen to the tour. Tough as that may be for one of the best sprinters in the world.

 

[Nirvana]

It's possible that both sprinting would work fine in both competitions, but it is also possible that they will be taking seconds/points away from each other and it will matter in the end. That's all.

Could be, but it's still better than asking one of the two to sit up and on the other hand van Aert could steal bonus seconds from Pogacar that looks faster than Roglic both on flat and uphill whereas regarding green if van Aert will take part in every bunch sprint he'll win it by landslide regardless because nowadays there isn't a top sprinter that could get points on other stages nor a puncheur that could get top placements in flat stages where the big points are awarded, maybe van der Poel if he wants could get lower placements in bunch sprints but he has two top sprinters in his team.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Then also take into account that there are probably only 2-3 other sprinters that can produce the same speed as Groenewegen in top-form.

could be 4-5 other sprinters also.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

I can‘t imagine JV will take Groenewegen for TdF 2022. I mean, they have Roglic and van Aert, two riders who are extremely popular in the world of cycling, almost everybody likes them.

Groenewegen from August 2020 on reminds everybody of his dirty move against Jakobsen. I think many people now would have problems feeling joy and happiness for Groenewegen, even if he would win a Tour stage.

I don‘t see Groenewegen at the Tour 2022. But, a much bigger issue (problem) could show up two months later: shall the Dutch national coach take Groenewegen or Jakobsen as the leader to the WC in Australia, on this sprinters parcours?…

 

[AlfaLum]

I can‘t imagine JV will take Groenewegen for TdF 2022. I mean, they have Roglic and van Aert, two riders who are extremely popular in the world of cycling, almost everybody likes them.

Groenewegen from August 2020 on reminds everybody of his dirty move against Jakobsen. I think many people now would have problems feeling joy and happiness for Groenewegen, even if he would win a Tour stage.

I don‘t see Groenewegen at the Tour 2022. But, a much bigger issue (problem) could show up two months later: shall the Dutch national coach take Groenewegen or Jakobsen as the leader to the WC in Australia, on this sprinters parcours?…

Imagine taking them both with Groenewegen doing the final leadout for a winning Jakobsen.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Imagine taking them both with Groenewegen doing the final leadout for a winning Jakobsen.

The politics involved in that team selection will be fascinating.
Am I just imagining this or is the Dutch/Rabofail federation not that fond of Quickstep? I seem to recall a bit of disappointment when Terpstra won the national championships.

 

[Mayomaniac]

The politics involved in that team selection will be fascinating.
Am I just imagining this or is the Dutch/Rabofail federation not that fond of Quickstep? I seem to recall a bit of disappointment when Terpstra won the national championships.

There is/was bad blood between Terpstra and Rabo, he was never part of their developmental team and always a bit of an outsider. Then there's also the fact that he seems to be pretty unlikable on and off the bike..