Team Jumbo-Visma

[roundabout]

i mean...no, not really? like you said he had a nice performance in Poland two years ago, not sure why that wouldn't count, especially when he was only 22. he was a great domestique at the Vuelta last year and has had a nice season this year where he's done from well to outstanding in every race he's been in. it isn't out of nowhere at all.

He was dropped a long way from the finish as an overall race leader and lost 12 minutes to the best.

Should we count it then or maybe a 26th place finish in a moderately difficult stage race is not really a sign of future GC greatness?

 

[zlev11]

He was dropped a long way from the finish as an overall race leader and lost 12 minutes to the best.

Should we count it then or maybe a 26th place finish in a moderately difficult stage race is not really a sign of future GC greatness?

nobody said it was, but he didn't come out of nowhere

 

[Eclipse]

No Rogla, no probla.

Should be expecting JV to win a GT next year I'd think.

 

[BlueRoads]

He didn't come out of nowhere, but it doesn't look unsuspicious at all.
(What does in comparison to other male Danish cyclists mean, by the way, like, the average Danish cyclist who gets tested or the ones in a pool of the best or what?)

Does anyone have numbers for today's climbs?

 

[Rackham]

No Rogla, no probla.

Should be expecting JV to win a GT next year I'd think.

Why not this summer in Spain? I read a report yesterday in which Merijn Zeeman claimed Roglic has recovered from his injuries & is putting in great power numbers in training (which he even said made them all the more bitter about the crash in Tour considering what was possible & what they lost).

So I assume another Vuelta is well within his capabilities.

As for Vingegaard winning a GT next year... I'm going to assume the Tour de France (which starts in Denmark) will start with both Vingegaard & Roglic in the same team (ergo neither will do the Giro) & the latter should obviously still be favoured over Vingegaard. That would leave the Vuelta 2022 as a possibility for Vingegaard ("if" Roglic gets what he wants in France).

 

[Eclipse]

Why not this summer in Spain? I read a report yesterday in which Merijn Zeeman claimed Roglic has recovered from his injuries & is putting in great power numbers in training (which he even said made them all the more bitter about the crash in Tour considering what was possible & what they lost).

I need to not abbreviate Jonas Vingegaard to JV haha

VGG?

 

[Rackham]

I need to not abbreviate Jonas Vingegaard to JV haha

VGG?

Just call him Jonas... or Rasmussen. I mean literally his full name is Jonas Vingegaard Rasmussen (I had to look it up because I didn't believe it at first).

It's like Rabobank/Jumbo were destined to eventually win the Tour de France some day... with Rasmussen.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Just call him Jonas... or Rasmussen. I mean literally his full name is Jonas Vingegaard Rasmussen (I had to look it up because I didn't believe it at first).

It's like Rabobank/Jumbo were destined to eventually win the Tour de France some day... with Rasmussen.

Wait, his name is Rasmussen and he riders for Rabo, why did nobody tell me? All aboard the hype train!

 

[ontheroad]

Some performance by a domestique. If not on a par with Pogacar, he has certainly looked like the only rider who was capable of challenging him at this Tour. That represents a huge spike in performance levels by any metric. TJV and Bahrain in particular look to be giving their riders the proper medicine.

 

[nilfen]

He didn't come out of nowhere, but it doesn't look unsuspicious at all.
(What does in comparison to other male Danish cyclists mean, by the way, like, the average Danish cyclist who gets tested or the ones in a pool of the best or what?)

Does anyone have numbers for today's climbs?

Since its Team Denmark doing the testing, I assume the comparison is with other elite athletes

 

[samhocking]

Since its Team Denmark doing the testing, I assume the comparison is with other elite athletes

Once you reach World Tour or Pro Conti you are not really tested by your own NADO anymore as you are then withing UCI's testing pool and so subject to ITA testing instead in and out of competition. That doesn't mean your NADO won't test you when you are in your native Country and target tested anyway, but generally it's coordinated with the riders International AD authority.

 

[F_Cance]

Vingegaard really finishing 2nd in GC while starting the Tour as the 4th rider in the jumbo lineup hierarchy. It is disgusting.

 

[roundabout]

But, but, but, he finished 26th in the Tour of Poland once.

 

[burning]

But, but, but, he finished 26th in the Tour of Poland once.

He won a Strava KOM, that puts him in elite territory.

 

[zlev11]

But, but, but, he finished 26th in the Tour of Poland once.

but but but, he won a hard world tour race at age 22 ahead of two future grand tour podium finishers in his first year on the world tour. see how easy it is to cherry pick results to suit your agenda?

his performance in this race is only out of nowhere if you dont pay attention to the sport.

 

[ciranda]

Way to go to distort what happened. He won the toughest stage in Poland after being in literally every move in the last 50 kilometres. The following day in the leader jersey, a far easier stage, he wasn't able to follow the first attack cause of nervousness and a sleepless night.

But but but maybe mention he was 12th on the toughest stage in Pais Vasco that year, the second race he had done as a pro. Or the stage with Angliru in the Vuelta last year, first chance he had to do real mountains.

 

[zlev11]

right, i remember that pais vasco stage. i remember thinking "who the hell is that?" but ever since then i haven't been too surprised by his results. that was a huge ride, that stage was ridden super hard from very far out.

 

[BlueRoads]

I am really fed up with the relativating. This is huge by Vingegaard (and Pogacar), whether through doping or just talent and training. You can tell me it's reached legally, but please stop telling me this isn't really big because the competition is so weak, there have been so many crashes and so on.
Carapaz is a GT winner, TGH is a GT winner (in a GT with low competition and still really fast times), Mas, Uran have been on a podium before, guys like Quintana can't follow, someone like de Gendt can hardly follow the peloton, or take Dan Martin or Michael Woods as a comparison, Poels has problems following the contenders... it's a change of guard - the times are fast, the performances of some incredibly impressive.

 

[roundabout]

but but but, he won a hard world tour race at age 22 ahead of two future grand tour podium finishers in his first year on the world tour. see how easy it is to cherry pick results to suit your agenda?

his performance in this race is only out of nowhere if you dont pay attention to the sport.

Lol. So Vingegaard is clean, but the police should raid Van Aert.

Makes total sense.

And being able to hold the lead and subsequently winning a stage race is obviously more indicative of GT ability than winning a single stage.

But of course, I am the one who doesn't pay attention to the sport.

And I think cherry-picking is attempting to stretch Vingegaard's meager palmares into something more substantial.

 

[roundabout]

Way to go to distort what happened. He won the toughest stage in Poland after being in literally every move in the last 50 kilometres. The following day in the leader jersey, a far easier stage, he wasn't able to follow the first attack cause of nervousness and a sleepless night.

But but but maybe mention he was 12th on the toughest stage in Pais Vasco that year, the second race he had done as a pro. Or the stage with Angliru in the Vuelta last year, first chance he had to do real mountains.

There is a huge jump between being the 3rd last rider in the train on Angliru and consistantly battling 2 very recent GT winners in the mountains 8 months later.

 

[roundabout]

And might as well mention the obvious, Jumbo was already suspicious in 2019.

At least back during the 2019 Tour of Poland I thought that Vingegaard was some sort of a Kuss Utah 2018 science experiment continuation

 

[Hugh Januss]

Of course Vingegaard's palmares are "thin" he was working full time along with his training until 3 years ago. Jumbo is suspicious, Ineos is suspicious, UAE, Bahrain, Deceuninck, Movistar, Bora, all suspicious. Hell the guy lined up next to you at a socal industrial park 55+ race could be pretty suspicious. Suspicion has been well earned in this sport, but unless they are total assholes like Lance I'd rather just be entertained and not spend my time trying to suss out the different levels of "preparation" between the current crop of top riders. Maybe I'm just jaded.

 

[zlev11]

Lol. So Vingegaard is clean, but the police should raid Van Aert.

Makes total sense.

And being able to hold the lead and subsequently winning a stage race is obviously more indicative of GT ability than winning a single stage.

But of course, I am the one who doesn't pay attention to the sport.

And I think cherry-picking is attempting to stretch Vingegaard's meager palmares into something more substantial.

sorry dawg but you've lost this argument. Vingegaard had all the hallmarks of a super talent if you were paying attention. Jumbo plucked him off of a Danish conti team while the guy was still packing fish to make a living, it's not outlandish in any way that he'd progress from doing that sick ride in Itzulia in 2019 (there's no way that if Jumbo has an internal doping program, they'd give it to a 22 year old in his 2nd WT race) and the ride in Poland to what he's doing in the Tour. that he finished 6th or 26th or 90th in the GC of that race means basically nothing, riders progress isn't always linear and usually they are inconsistent early on in their careers.

 

[Savant12]

Vingegaard really finishing 2nd in GC while starting the Tour as the 4th rider in the jumbo lineup hierarchy. It is disgusting.

At least, he finishes ahead of WVA.

 

[Netserk]

I think Jumbo-Visma stepped up team-wide in 2018, and yes from 2019 on they have been perhaps the number 1 team in providing their riders with extra watts. And I'm convinced Vingegaard wouldn't climb as fast on practically any other team.

And Vingegaard's rise has been meteoric, of course. I'd argue though that if it wasn't for Bernal, Pogi, Evenepoel etc. lowering the expected breakthrough age, it wouldn't have been seen as coming from nowhere that a rider had his breakthrough in his third season as pro (after showing glimpses of promise). Not everyone can be consistently good from their first season. Even a promising junior like Mollema had a similar trajectory in his first pro years. I'd say Carapaz came more out of nowhere in 2018 than Vingegaard, the difference is the level of performances from Vingegaard now, which in itself is suspicious, more so than how he got there.