Team Visma LAB

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Looks like José "Ace" Azevedo is on his way to Jumbo. Ha, they don't even pretend to give a **** anymore.

"mas há rumores de que José Azevedo possa rumar aos holandeses da Jumbo-Visma como diretor desportivo. "

A BOLA

A BOLA, toda a informação desportiva. Acompanhe todas as notícias do seu clube ou modalidade preferida, para onde quer que vá.

www.abola.pt

 

[F_Cance]

Team Jumbo-Visma en Clement beëindigen samenwerking

Aangezien de samenwerking tussen Team Jumbo-Visma en Stef Clement zoals deze vanaf januari 2019 heeft bestaan, niet heeft gebracht wat allebei ervan…

www.teamjumbovisma.nl

So Clement got kicked bc he said something like "I can understand that some people have doubts regarding Roglic"?
LOL. When Bennett talked about Froome "doing a Landis" they did not care, but one of their own and you get fired. Thx for speaking out Clement.

 

[samhocking]

Team Jumbo-Visma en Clement beëindigen samenwerking

Aangezien de samenwerking tussen Team Jumbo-Visma en Stef Clement zoals deze vanaf januari 2019 heeft bestaan, niet heeft gebracht wat allebei ervan…

www.teamjumbovisma.nl

So Clement got kicked bc he said something like "I can understand that some people have doubts regarding Roglic"?
LOL. When Bennett talked about Froome "doing a Landis" they did not care, but one of their own and you get fired. Thx for speaking out Clement.

Bennett cared. He talked about this to Eurosport later on putting the record straight.
https://video.eurosport.co.uk/cycli...-froome-landis-comment_vid1136227/video.shtml

 

[SpannerBender]

ketones-dutch-anti-doping-authority-uncomfortable-with-jumbo-vismas-use/

 

[Red Rick]

The Yellow Death Train is here bois.

 

[ppanther92]

Outskying Ineos. But lets wait for the Tour.

By the way, from what I understand Ketones are produced by the liver in a fasting state (or under carbohydrate restriction) but can apperently also be supplemented. The evidence of performance effects seems to be limited. So why is there such a big buzz around it? Even more so if it is not prohibited and just another supplement. Coffein or Magnesium probably have more studies backing performance effects for example (which does not necessary mean Ketones are useless or may not indeed have greater effects but it does not seem to be a gamechanger to me).

 

[Merckx index]

ketones-dutch-anti-doping-authority-uncomfortable-with-jumbo-vismas-use/

From the article:

In response to Ram's comments, Jumbo-Visma nutritionist Asker Keukendrup defended the team's stance on ketones.

"Precisely because ketones are natural, we do not expect that there will be any adverse health effects in the long term.

Substitute "EPO" or "steroids" for "ketones".

https://www.health.com/weight-loss/keto-diet-side-effects

Some athletes swear by the ketogenic diet, not just for weight loss but for improved performance in their sport, as well. But Edward Weiss, PhD, associate professor of nutrition and dietetics at Saint Louis University, doesn’t buy it. “I hear cyclists say all the time that they’re faster and better now that they’re on the keto diet, and my first question is, 'Well, how much weight did you lose?'” he says.

In a recent study in the Journal of Sports Medicine and Physical Fitness, Weiss and his colleagues found that participants performed worse on high-intensity cycling and running tasks after four days on a ketogenic diet, compared to those who’d spent four days on a high-carb diet. Weiss says that the body is in a more acidic state when it’s in ketosis, which may limit its ability to perform at peak levels.

“Just losing a few pounds is enough to give you a huge advantage on the bike, but I’m very concerned that people are attributing the benefits of weight loss to something specific in the ketogenic diet,” Weiss continues. “In reality, the benefits of weight loss could be at least partially canceled out by reductions in performance.”

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

This team seems to be as dodgy as they come, as far as 2020 WorldTeams are concerned. Given their recent performances it seems as though they follow the Rich Piana playbook of gains - when in doubt, up the dosage. No more than a gut feeling, though. I'm sure the experts could tell me why this team is most likely totally clean. It just doesn't seem that way to this casual observer.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Substitute "EPO" or "steroids" for "ketones".

https://www.health.com/weight-loss/keto-diet-side-effects

Serious question here: ketones and ketogenic diet, one is a bottled potion, the other a lifestyle fad, can the two be compared?

A less serious question: if the negative health effects of a keto diet are on our radar, should we not also be looking at the negative health effects of all the weight loss regimes increasingly in use in the pro peloton over the last two decades? Should we be adding Weight Watchers to the Prohibited Association list? Can we sanction athletes for being in possession of certain weight-loss self-help books? (Okay, so that's not phrased very seriously, but it is a serious question at heart.)

 

[F_Cance]

I'm sure the experts could tell me why this team is most likely totally clean.

just lost the fat
and
started wanting it more

 

[proffate]

The evidence of performance effects seems to be limited. So why is there such a big buzz around it?

Limited evidence does not indicate lack of efficacy. Anecdotally, they really do seem to work.

They do exist endogenously but to get your body to produce them requires carbohydrate deprivation, which is clearly detrimental to performance.

 

[meat puppet]

Well, out-skying Ineos is very eyebrow raising to say the least. Let's just say that having already sprinted and Poggioed with the best, I hope Wout will not climb with the best in the coming weeks. That would be too much.

While not necessarily clinic related, here's a prez from their head of performance from last fall. Quite an interesting watch, though maybe not very different from what other teams may be doing. They seem to subsribe to the power/capacity distinction devised by Jan Olbrecht and other physiologists working at the Cologne Uni to structure their training.

Of course there is no way of determining whether this is 1) an accurate representation of the broad outlines of what they have been doing training wise, 2) smoke and mirrors to muddy the waters from what is being done to "support" said training, 3) both or 4) neither.

https://www.bigmarker.com/inscyd/Ho...te-better-training-programs?bmid=57416f033caa

 

[hulkgogan]

Since the Corona virus, HVMN, the main retailer of ketone esters has been unable to get supplies and has been out of stock for months. I'm wondering if Jumbo secured stock and Ineos didn't?

 

[brownbobby]

Serious question here: ketones and ketogenic diet, one is a bottled potion, the other a lifestyle fad, can the two be compared?

I don't think the two can be compared at all....the Ketogenic diet is a trade off between the body being almost devoid of carbohydrates which is obviously detrimental to performance at certain intensities, and the increased availability of ketones as a replacement energy source, albeit one which is utilised very differently by the body.

I imagine being able to supplement with Ketones and therefore reap the all of the benefits of the Keto diet, without any of the downside of not having carb fuel sources available is a huge difference. Like a dual fuel system versus a single system if you like

 

[luckyboy]

We just had a five-month period where cycling's own anti-doping body said that out-of-competition testing is down 90% on normal (possibly/probably still ongoing) and people are still talking about ketones...

 

[hulkgogan]

This is getting too obvious. Bennett not even trying to hide how easy it was.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Bennett not even trying to hide how easy it was.

Did we watch the same race? Ulisi closed 20" in the final kilometre and could have caught Bennett if he hadn't cracked/eased up just before the catch. Easy it did not look.

The chase to Bennett was disorganised which played in his favour. This was the B-match of the day, and it showed in the racing.

This is not to suggest Jumbo aren't out Skying Ineos. They've been building this of a couple of years now, this isn't an overnight change in their fortune.

 

[fmk_RoI]

I imagine being able to supplement with Ketones and therefore reap the all of the benefits of the Keto diet, without any of the downside of not having carb fuel sources available is a huge difference.

This is what I would have thought, which is why I was surprised to see us discussing the downsides of a keto diet. It's the downside of Ketones that should have been discussed.

 

[SafeBet]

Did we watch the same race? Ulisi closed 20" in the final kilometre and could have caught Bennett if he hadn't cracked/eased up just before the catch. Easy it did not look.

The chase to Bennett was disorganised which played in his favour. This was the B-match of the day, and it showed in the racing.

This is not to suggest Jumbo aren't out Skying Ineos. They've been building this of a couple of years now, this isn't an overnight change in their fortune.

I watched a race where George Bennett dropped the whole bunch (including Nibali, VdP, Moscon) on a power climb in a hilly one day race.

George Bennett.
Best ever result in a classic before today: 10th in Lombardia a couple years ago.

 

[TomLPC]

Great to see a 33 year old Bennett putting some kids to the absolute sword

Rabobank are back in a big way, great stuff

 

[BullsFan22]

I'd much rather see Jumbo Visma dominate than Sky/Ineos/whatever sponsor they get next.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Great to see a 33 year old Bennett putting some kids to the absolute sword

Ulissi is 31. Also in the Top 10 was that 34-year-old "kid" Geschke and the 37-year-old "kid" Devenyns. Imagine that, it's not as simple as 20-somethings always ride faster than 30-somethings. Who woulda thunked it?

One more time I'll add the disclaimer: Jumbo have made no secret over the last few years of their intentions to out Sky Ineos.

Could we maybe have some decent arguments to show they're on the hot sauce and not the usual crap that wilfully ignores there's more to a race than just doping?

 

[Blanco]

Could we maybe have some decent arguments to show they're on the hot sauce and not the usual crap that wilfully ignores there's more to a race than just doping?

How about they're winning wherever they show up, Roglic is 2,1,1 in 3 days, Van Aert is winning left and right, sprints, uphill sprints (weighting 78kg ), TT's, he's some kind of Cancellara/Boonen combo (aka the perfect classics rider), and on top of everything George Bennett is winning hard semi-classics with top competition (although he barely won a race before in his career)!!!
And what decent argument beside this actually you want? An actual proof of doping?! We'll have to wait a little for that...

 

[hulkgogan]

Did we watch the same race? Ulisi closed 20" in the final kilometre and could have caught Bennett if he hadn't cracked/eased up just before the catch. Easy it did not look.

The chase to Bennett was disorganised which played in his favour. This was the B-match of the day, and it showed in the racing.

This is not to suggest Jumbo aren't out Skying Ineos. They've been building this of a couple of years now, this isn't an overnight change in their fortune.

I meant his attack, his face and body language serene compared to Moscon 3 meters behind absolutely destroying himself to hold the wheel. You think that's normal? Maybe in the 90s.

 

[SafeBet]

Ulissi is 31. Also in the Top 10 was that 34-year-old "kid" Geschke and the 37-year-old "kid" Devenyns. Imagine that, it's not as simple as 20-somethings always ride faster than 30-somethings. Who woulda thunked it?

One more time I'll add the disclaimer: Jumbo have made no secret over the last few years of their intentions to out Sky Ineos.

Could we maybe have some decent arguments to show they're on the hot sauce and not the usual crap that wilfully ignores there's more to a race than just doping?

The point is not the age.
The point is that he never was a good one day racer. Not even a competent one for most of his career.
He never had the power output, rouler skills or explosiveness to be one.

Now he's destroying guys who should push 100 watts more than him on a 5% hill. VdP of all people was grasping for air when he got to the top. This has to ring a bell.