Team Visma LAB

[Red Rick]

Outskying Ineos. But lets wait for the Tour.

By the way, from what I understand Ketones are produced by the liver in a fasting state (or under carbohydrate restriction) but can apperently also be supplemented. The evidence of performance effects seems to be limited. So why is there such a big buzz around it? Even more so if it is not prohibited and just another supplement. Coffein or Magnesium probably have more studies backing performance effects for example (which does not necessary mean Ketones are useless or may not indeed have greater effects but it does not seem to be a gamechanger to me).

For all we know the ketones are just the 'pedalling frequency' or the oval chainrings 'busting my ass off 6 hours a day' or any other marginal gain that's really a distraction from 'god this juice is good'

 

[Red Rick]

I'd much rather see Jumbo Visma dominate than Sky/Ineos/whatever sponsor they get next.

I'll admit I like Jumbo more than Ineos but if this is gonna go any longer than a few months this is gonna get boring as hell not to mention Dutch cycling cleanz now propaganda is gonna be insane.

 

[Red Rick]

Honestly sad there's no ITT in the Dauphine. Dumoulin should be absolutely comical

 

[Billie]

This is hilarious. In the old days they wouldn't have made it past le Tour's 2nd rest day but who knows nowadays.

Van Aert has been on a plateau since 2017 and now twice the month before the tour he becomes this ubercyclist

 

[BlueRoads]

To me the most plausible thought regarding Ketones is: It's not about whether you take them or not, but about how, when, in combination with what. And the big effect may be gained by those with doctors who know how to. (Also of course different riders will react differently.)

Anyway, I don't believe in Ketones as the one explanation for break through successes, not on any team. That would mean cycling is indeed clean. And which sport is?
Why would all the doctors fully rely on something that everyone has access to? Doping is all around in sports, the will to cut ties with dubious people seems very limited, and cycling has always been on the front when it comes to medical performance boosters.

Jumbo Visma, I think, have done a lot of things right in the past years and they have put together a roster with amazingly talented riders (who are also mostly very likeable). Nonetheless the way they are now winning every race that Evenepoel is not in is too stunning to not raise four or five eyebrows if you possess them.
We will see if this goes on or if they are just in way better shape than others right now. Maybe Ineos, Quintana, van der Poel, Vlasov and Daryl Impey will dominate the rest of the season and then we will talk differently about TJV.

 

[Red Rick]

The difference being ketones wouldn't make it clean. It would mean a "clean" component on top of all the dirty stuff everyone's doing.

Anyawy I have trouble believing ketones would be the big difference, they're hardly the only team using them.

 

[BlueRoads]

The difference being ketones wouldn't make it clean. It would mean a "clean" component on top of all the dirty stuff everyone's doing.

Anyawy I have trouble believing ketones would be the big difference, they're hardly the only team using them.

If you are replying to me maybe me misunderstood each other. Sorry, my English really is so bad, sometimes it's difficult for me to express what I really mean.

 

[fmk_RoI]

How about they're winning wherever they show up

Well that is a bit better than 33-something wins race against less-than-stellar field. And for sure, yes, this is looking like 1999-era Rabobank.

 

[fmk_RoI]

I meant his attack, his face and body language serene compared to Moscon 3 meters behind absolutely destroying himself to hold the wheel. You think that's normal? Maybe in the 90s.

So he wasn't gurning as much as Moscon who finished ... eighteenth. Well that proves it, doesn't it. The facial expression anti-doping test. WADA'll love it.

 

[fmk_RoI]

This has to ring a bell.

Hincapie at Pla d'Adet this is not.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Dutch cycling cleanz now propaganda is gonna be insane.

Produce some of it. Please, let's keep track of it.

 

[fmk_RoI]

I don't believe in Ketones as the one explanation for break through successes, not on any team.

Who's selling them as that? Jumbo ain't. Is anyone?

 

[ppanther92]

For all we know the ketones are just the 'pedalling frequency' or the oval chainrings 'busting my ass off 6 hours a day' or any other marginal gain that's really a distraction from 'god this juice is good'

Could very well be, of course.

 

[BlueRoads]

Who's selling them as that? Jumbo ain't. Is anyone?

It was not meant to oppose anyone else's view, but an addition because I thought my first paragraph could otherwise be misunderstood in that way (that if you take Ketones the right way you can reach incredible heights without doping, that was not what I wanted to say.)

 

[fmk_RoI]

It was not meant to oppose anyone else's view, but an addition because I thought my first paragraph could otherwise be misunderstood in that way (that if you take Ketones the right way you can reach incredible heights without doping, that was not what I wanted to say.)

It's a straw dog is what it is. You're setting up a false accusation to beat them with. Jumbo own the fact that they use Ketones (unlike some other teams who distance themselves from them) but they also talk up a lot of other things they are doing.

As always, I'll add the disclaimer: Jumbo have made no secret of their aim to out Sky Ineos. But straw dogs do nothing to show where, like Skineos, they cross the ethical line. Try harder.

 

[meat puppet]

If someone is well versed in original research, they can obviously chip in and correct me. But per popular articles, such as on published by cyclingnews itself on july 19, ketones do not seem to be game changers. And by my interpretation that would be especially so in (road) races, hence making recovery and training aerobic (fat) metabolism by inducing a low carb metabolic milieu without actually being constantly low carb the most potent domain of experimentation. Could be wrong here, of course. If this were so, their use would still not be irrelevant, just not anything more than a piece in the puzzle.

Anyway, I think luckyboy hit the nail in the head upthread. Ketones are quite likely a footnote.

 

[BlueRoads]

It's a straw dog is what it is. You're setting up a false accusation to beat them with. Jumbo own the fact that they use Ketones (unlike some other teams who distance themselves from them) but they also talk up a lot of other things they are doing.

As always, I'll add the disclaimer: Jumbo have made no secret of their aim to out Sky Ineos. But straw dogs do nothing to show where, like Skineos, they cross the ethical line. Try harder.

You know, you're a weird person. I really wonder what you are like in real life because I can't imagine. Me, I sometimes talk nonsense and sometimes I'm really smart. Most of the time I just like to communicate. I like harmony, but not for every price. Sometimes I am in a bad mood or a little sloppy, but I have no intention to accuse people wrongly, get into fights, provoke people, whatever. I like to be nice but sometimes I am not. I don't know if you really take these things personal, if you just try to provoke people, if you feel this is your field of expertise and others should not come in your way here - but in any case I think you are not even trying to understand and accept people.
I post something as neutral as could be and you go and react with "you accuse" / "try harder"?

 

[masking_agent]

Kudos to the Jumbo Visma Team doctor(s) as they have produced "a program" that is working. The Yellow Train has the potential of taking over the Ineos train at near or greater than 6.7 - 7.1w/kg

 

[F_Cance]

Kuss
totally normal

 

[therealthing]

Making Ineos look likes Idiots.

That acceleration from Roglic; Jesus...

 

[F_Cance]

Best program in the game right now

 

[gmedina]

hmmmm...ketones....right lol....
j-v will destroy everyone...they probably discover something new

 

[bigcog]

How are ketones supposed to help exactly ? I've done the keto diet, lost a lot of weight but when it can to doing any sporting activity had as much energy and strength as a 90 year old, so I find it bizarre that it would be the secret sauce. to uber performance.

 

[fmk_RoI]

I've done the keto diet,

We've already done this: ketones and keto diet are not the same.

 

[fmk_RoI]

But per popular articles, such as on published by cyclingnews itself on july 19, ketones do not seem to be game changers.

How many PEDs can you name that don't have published articles saying they don't work?