Team Visma LAB

[samhocking]

How are ketones supposed to help exactly ? I've done the keto diet, lost a lot of weight but when it can to doing any sporting activity had as much energy and strength as a 90 year old, so I find it bizarre that it would be the secret sauce. to uber performance.

Diet is the wrong way to look at it. Ketone Salts and Esters raise your blood ketone level, similar to say a cup of porridge and an energy gel increases your glucose levels

Easiest way to explain it is Ketone Salts were like a glucose tablet or bowl of porridge of the 60's, Ketone Esters are like a 2:1 maltodextrine energy gel. The Ester invention itself you could say is like the 2004 discovery where by mixing maltodextrin with fructose at 2:1 ratio, carbohydrate oxidation increases by 40% allowing the body to process 90grams instead of only 60grams of carbs per per hour. Esters similarly, just allow more Ketones into the body than is possible with the Salts.

 

[meat puppet]

How many PEDs can you name that don't have published articles saying they don't work?

Well, the article I mentioned does not say they do not work, but discusses their effects from several angles. It might of course be pure propaganda, which is why the post began with a request for those familiar with original research to fill in.

As I stated, my current understanding is that they are not an asterixesque magic potion they are sometimes portrayed to be, but still potentially handy as a piece in the puzzle.

And a footnote in comparison to tried and tested blood doping.

 

[fmk_RoI]

As I stated, my current understanding is that they are not an asterixesque magic potion they are sometimes portrayed to be, but still potentially handy as a piece in the puzzle.

And a footnote in comparison to tried and tested blood doping.

How many PEDs are truly asterixesque? Even EPO isn't. But in a thread full of straw dogs, I guess your hyperbollix has to be excused.

As for the comparison to blood doping: try remembering that one is legal and the other banned. The risk/reward ratio certainly favours one of them.

 

[SafeBet]

So George Bennett is now a top rider for hilly Classics. For a moment I thought he would even beat Birdsong at his own game.

 

[42x16ss]

So George Bennett is now a top rider for hilly Classics. For a moment I thought he would even beat Birdsong at his own game.

You're talking about possibly THE most underrated climber of the last 4-5 years. A guy who has scrambled last minute top 10s at the Giro and Vuelta after original team leaders withdrew/lost big time. His previous results (including his 10th) at Lombardia also came looking after Roglic/Kruiswijk/Gesink.

He was doing the same thing again at the 2017 TDF before getting sick himself, has won the Tour of California (OK, not that big) and was shelling guys wholesale every mountain stage at last year's TDF.

There's far smellier riders on the team.

 

[DirtyWorks]

" ketones" is the new excuse. It will eventually be categorized under the long history of ridiculous explanations for world tour average riders becoming grand tour winners.

I haven't paid much attention to cycling for a while. The Dauphine stage I just watched seemed reasonable. They weren't going at it "hammer and tongs" an hour out from the finish. If it were 1990-something a clearly gifted rider like Van Aert would not be able to podium as he has in 2020. his cyclocross wins were consistent.

Again, I haven't watched any cycling for years. Certainly, the UCI is less transparent than ever with a currently disgraceful human rights record. So, maybe they are still picking winners for the TdF.

Best to all.

 

[luckyboy]

So Jumbo's fifth rider in the Tour team looks stronger than team leaders Lopez, Pogacar, Bardet, Pinot..

 

[F_Cance]

Jumbo pre and Jumbo post corona break is a completely different team. It's mostly about their TdF riders so far, but the others didn't really get their chance so far.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

So Jumbo's fifth rider in the Tour team looks stronger than team leaders Lopez, Pogacar, Bardet, Pinot..

Kuss won't look stronger than those guys in an ITT, or an echelon stage.

 

[Alexandre B.]

The last team that won three stages at the Dauphiné with different riders was Astana. In 2007.

But there were more stages at the time.

 

[Mayomaniac]

They remind me a bit of CSC in the 2008 Tour, Wout climbing on that level = freaking Cancellara dropping Valverde on a mountain stage.

 

[samhocking]

I think Jumbo simply focused on lockdown more collectively as a team as they announced their leaders and the Tour team long before lockdown, so set the wheels in motion for a really productive all-out attack at hitting Tour in best form (better than a traditional racing calendar allows) and they simply got it very right. Other teams clearly got it very wrong such as Movistar, and then you have random riders both good and terrible in a the same team like Ineos, Education First, Trek with huge variations in riders form it seems.

 

[Bonimenier]

Jumbo pre and Jumbo post corona break is a completely different team. It's mostly about their TdF riders so far, but the others didn't really get their chance so far.

But didn't their top guys barely ride any race before the corona break?

Not that I expected them to be this dominant, but with the riders they have, it was clear that the team would perform much better when they rode.

 

[SafeBet]

You're talking about possibly THE most underrated climber of the last 4-5 years. A guy who has scrambled last minute top 10s at the Giro and Vuelta after original team leaders withdrew/lost big time. His previous results (including his 10th) at Lombardia also came looking after Roglic/Kruiswijk/Gesink.

He was doing the same thing again at the 2017 TDF before getting sick himself, has won the Tour of California (OK, not that big) and was shelling guys wholesale every mountain stage at last year's TDF.

There's far smellier riders on the team.

You cannot be serious.
Bennett never ever showed he had this kind of potential for classics. Not even once in his career.

And this narrative of riders not showing what they're capable of for lack of opportunities is beyond ridiculous. It's the same exact BS we have to hear from Fuglsang and his fans/entourage to explain his sudden transformation to multiple Monument dominator.

Riders do show their potential regardless of opportunities, especially in one day races. The whole team is smelly as sh*t. It's just that most fans are happy they're destroying Ineos.

 

[42x16ss]

You cannot be serious.
Bennett never ever showed he had this kind of potential for classics. Not even once in his career.

And this narrative of riders not showing what they're capable of for lack of opportunities is beyond ridiculous. It's the same exact BS we have to hear from Fuglsang and his fans/entourage to explain his sudden transformation to multiple Monument dominator.

Riders do show their potential regardless of opportunities, especially in one day races. The whole team is smelly as sh*t. It's just that most fans are happy they're destroying Ineos.

I said there are smelliER riders on the team.

I would be looking into the likes of Roglic's meteoric rise and Kruiswijk/Gesink's fluctuations well before Bennett.

As for his classics form, Bennett has shown he can climb, but apart from Fuglsang and Nibali there weren't many high profile classics riders there.

And when it came to crunch time at Lombardia Fuglsang ended up dealing with Bennett quite easily. It was a valiant effort, but not one that truly troubled Fuglsang.

 

[BlueRoads]

I would agree that the general dominance of Jumbo, the amazing strength of so many riders, is absolutely eyebrow-raising. It's not one rider, it's all of them. Most of them are definitely really talented, but then other teams have talented riders as well. So far I am not entirely sure that the team will go on like this. Maybe they got their training during the "lockdown" very right. Maybe they are now a few yards ahead and the others will catch up a bit. In a way I hope they become more "human", because I really like some of their riders.
It is not incredible in itself that Sepp Kuss takes such a development - he's always been very talented. Wout van Aert has always been extremely strong. Dumoulin won a GT. Bennett was talented and he has his rib issue solved. But the way that all of them just dominate other great riders, practically everybody except Evenepoel, not really through their tactics, but mostly due to pure strength, will be hard to believe for me if the other teams do not come at least closer in the next weeks/months.

 

[roundabout]

I followed Bennett since his first pro race in the 2011 Tour of Utah.

Up to the 2016 Vuelta his results were nothing special to put it mildly

CQ Ranking - BENNETT George

CQ Ranking is the world's leading cycling ranking and extensive results database. Also known as Cycling Quotient.

cqranking.com

Probably the most memorable thing he did at that time was getting parked before the 2015 Giro for abusing his asthma meds.

 

[red_flanders]

I think Jumbo simply focused on lockdown more collectively as a team as they announced their leaders and the Tour team long before lockdown, so set the wheels in motion for a really productive all-out attack at hitting Tour in best form (better than a traditional racing calendar allows) and they simply got it very right. Other teams clearly got it very wrong such as Movistar, and then you have random riders both good and terrible in a the same team like Ineos, Education First, Trek with huge variations in riders form it seems.

They probably trained harder than everyone else. Had rounder wheels. And brought their own pillows...

 

[roundabout]

They remind me a bit of CSC in the 2008 Tour, Wout climbing on that level = freaking Cancellara dropping Valverde on a mountain stage.

That was Voigt. Cancellara was caught after the Tourmalet if that is the stage you are referring to.

 

[ppanther92]

How are ketones supposed to help exactly ? I've done the keto diet, lost a lot of weight but when it can to doing any sporting activity had as much energy and strength as a 90 year old, so I find it bizarre that it would be the secret sauce. to uber performance.

Theory is that you have the metabolic benefits from exogenous ketones that you would have from a ketogenic diet (e.g. fat loss) but you can still intake carbohydrates for performance and recovery.

 

[42x16ss]

They probably trained harder than everyone else. Had rounder wheels. And brought their own pillows...

Don't forget the hand sanitiser

 

[Alexandre B.]

Withdrawing from MPCC was always a red herring. Obvious whitewashing (Team Blanco).

They're not willing to play fair.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Withdrawing from MPCC was always a red herring.

A red herring? Or a smoking gun? Maybe that makes it a smoked herring?

How is withdrawing from MPCC whitewashing? Have I missed an episode where black becomes white, up becomes down, wrong becomes right?

 

[DirtyWorks]

I would agree that the general dominance of Jumbo, the amazing strength of so many riders, is absolutely eyebrow-raising. It's not one rider, it's all of them. Most of them are definitely really talented, but then other teams have talented riders as well. So far I am not entirely sure that the team will go on like this. Maybe they got their training during the "lockdown" very right. Maybe they are now a few yards ahead and the others will catch up a bit. In a way I hope they become more "human", because I really like some of their riders.
It is not incredible in itself that Sepp Kuss takes such a development - he's always been very talented. Wout van Aert has always been extremely strong. Dumoulin won a GT. Bennett was talented and he has his rib issue solved. But the way that all of them just dominate other great riders, practically everybody except Evenepoel, not really through their tactics, but mostly due to pure strength, will be hard to believe for me if the other teams do not come at least closer in the next weeks/months.

Agree to all this. But, Roglic has legit grand tour firepower AND van Aert pacing him to the last 1k. pretty hard to counter that. This happened Pre-epo, too. Lemond was domestique for Hinault.

But, it is boring racing.

I'm still a couple of days behind, but second place at Strade Bianche winning from 50k out and reasonable tempo where it doesn't look fun or easy after crossing the finish is encouraging .

 

[fmk_RoI]

But, it is boring racing.

Yeah, worst Dauphiné ever. By a country mile. Everyone's sayin' that.