Team Time Trail, in or out?

[gree0232]

In the past I have to admit that I liked the spectacle of the TTT. If nothing else, it was fun to watch. However, after watching this years TTT and seeing the effects on GC, I have been wondering why this event is in the Tour at all? Cadel Evans is arguably one of the strongest riders in the Tour, but has one of the weakest teams in the peloton, ergo he looses three minutes and the Tour loses a GC contender. There are plenty of strong men in the Tour whose relative weaknesses in the TTT all but knock them out of contention, and what we get this year is another Robo-Lance/Contador, Imagine Alberto having to take three minutes out of Cadel Evans or Carlos Sastre going uphill like Carlos had to do in last year's Tour.

Having seen the differences in the Tour's over the years, and knowing that the TTT is not always so decisive, it can be almost painful watching it effects on smaller, weaker teams even in the years when the main GC contenders are still battling it out. I can't say that I would be unhappy if the Tour never had another TTT, or at least one where the differences it produced, like a short opening TTT ala the Giro, were not potentially deadly.

If the TTT stays in the Tour, my advice to riders like Cadel? Find yourself a stronger team.

 

[Animal]

"trail"?

FFS.

 

[Anonymous]

"trail"?

FFS.

I was going to post about starting threads that are already in existence (in this case I think this might be the 4th or 5th), but since we are talking about Time Trails, I stand corrected...in fact I am not sure what to post considering I know nothing about the topic.

 

[Cobber]

I was going to post about starting threads that are already in existence (in this case I think this might be the 4th or 5th), but since we are talking about Time Trails, I stand corrected...in fact I am not sure what to post considering I know nothing about the topic.

This thread has real potential!

 

[Animal]

Probably worse that "Friere".

 

[titotito]

For some reason fans like the TTT. I don't know why, because it's pretty boring to me. But, I totally agree that it should be gotten rid of. The TTT eliminated most of the GC contenders and took out most of the suspense in this year's tour; and that was only on day four.

 

[Anonymous]

i think its a great spectator stage, for the fans on the roadside its better than any flat stage..

id keep it in, its a traditional part of the tour, but move it to the last week when they are all knackered to even it up a bit.. .

 

[Hotbrakes]

When Lance is not riding it's out. So please let this be LA's final year, he has made this tour so boring.

 

[Anonymous]

When Lance is not riding it's out. So please let this be LA's final year, he has made this tour so boring.

all on his own..

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I like them, I just think they need to be short. Like the prologue TTT at the Giro this year.

This year's (Tour) TTT could easily have been half as long as it was. It would have still been entertaining for the fans, and we wouldn't have the splits we do now.

Or make the thing long, like 100km, but with controlled times. Every place down you are from the winning time, is :5. No matter how far back you actually finish. 2nd place team adds :5, 5th place team :25, 12th place team a minute, etc. And make it to where the entire team has to finish together.

 

[badboyberty]

I was going to post about starting threads that are already in existence (in this case I think this might be the 4th or 5th), but since we are talking about Time Trails, I stand corrected...in fact I am not sure what to post considering I know nothing about the topic.

Team Time Trail, I believe this is done on cross country bikes, adds a whole new dimension to 'technical' descent...

 

[benpounder]

Every team knew about it well before the Tour started, but as is to be expected, Astana winning by a large margin will cause many to... poopoo the results.

Damnit, we need equality of outcome...
[/snark]

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

i think its a great spectator stage, for the fans on the roadside its better than any flat stage..

id keep it in, its a traditional part of the tour, but move it to the last week when they are all knackered to even it up a bit.. .

Only way i'd enjoy the TTT if it was the prolouge/1st stage of the tour.
Maybe a 10-15km course, where time loss wont be to big.

 

[Robert Merivel]

When Lance is not riding it's out. So please let this be LA's final year, he has made this tour so boring.

Ease off on the brakes...your going up hill.

 

[Reynolds Boy]

I still think it is fair to say that it has the potential to be an exciting part of the event, assuming the rest of the 3 weeks include multiple significant mountain stages.. because there would ideally be complexities for both strong climbing & big power squads to consider if it were tagged as an opportunity to gain or squander more than a minute or two. It all depends on the course layout of the TTT, (and thereby its potential for timegaps) in relation to the rest of the Tour.

The inclusion of it (an extremely technical parcours,) on a grand tour course which hardly allows for pure climbers or strong individual TTists to show their stuff, is what has made it such an unfortunate focus of the race this year.


... & then the whole idea of it goes completely out the window if you even begin to entertain the idea that some teams are stronger than others for reasons beyond the selection process.. but that's a conversation for elsewhere

 

[Hotbrakes]

Ease off on the brakes...your going up hill.

The TTT has not been in the Tour for the last 3 years. Why?
Then they bring it back. Why?
ASO have made this Tour boring by providing a course which gives LA the best chance to win.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Only way i'd enjoy the TTT if it was the prolouge/1st stage of the tour.
Maybe a 10-15km course, where time loss wont be to big.

I agree. 20km should be the max and it would cause some really fast racing and still would hold high entertainment factor for the tv viewer. With 20km ttt's it wouldn't make the overall result so descisive so early into the race like this year. Many have criticised prudhomme for the route as building the tour around Mont Ventoux doesn't work as the 1st two weeks are rode more cautiously. The 2007 route was one of my most favourite routes as it had something in it for all types of riders. Kept suspense till the final tt.

 

[rhubroma]

Out of a grand tour. Can, and has, determined the entire race. I mean, sure, a leader's team is important, but only the leader, not the team, wears the yellow jersey in the end.

Lemond even won the 89 Tour practically without a team. Imagine what would have occured had their been a team time trial that year. Or if there hadn't for Armstrong, and Ullrich, in 2003.

 

[rhubroma]

The TTT has not been in the Tour for the last 3 years. Why?
Then they bring it back. Why?
ASO have made this Tour boring by providing a course which gives LA the best chance to win.

Agreed and "the Lion", aka ASO owner, practically begged Lance (and offered him cash?) to come back, because profits were down. Almost like what Zomengan did for the Texan to get him to ride for the Giro this year. It's all about money, lots of fans can just kiss a$$.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Out of a grand tour. Can, and has, determined the entire race. I mean, sure, a leader's team is important, but only the leader, not the team, wears the yellow jersey in the end.

Lemond even won the 89 Tour practically without a team. Imagine what would have occured had their been a team time trial that year. Or if there hadn't for Armstrong, and Ullrich, in 2003.

In 2003 without the ttt Jan Ullrich would of been in yellow after Ax-3-Domianes. You ride with the power of ten men with the yellow jersey.

I heard an interview with matthew lloyd... he said that ASO had planned the course on Google Earth...He is right tho... stupid course which has asked the qestion if they should be even in the tour

 

[subzro]

Not really a fan of them, but if they must be in restrict them to 15km or less.

 

[klodifan]

Today's stage demonstrated that the TTT should be eliminated or at least neutralized. After a decent mountain top finish today, think how much more interesting the tour would be had there not been a TTT.

 

[Boeing]

In

I like it. It might need some tweaks

 

[BroDeal]

Keep it but give the winning team a twenty second gain, twelve seconds for second, and eight for third. A team's time is only used to determine who wins. Teams can go for the prestige of winning the stage, but it will barely affect the times of individuals.

 

[Titaniumtim]

I posted this in a previous TTT thread. It is a bit long. The problem I see with putting across the board limits is you might get only a few that contest it and the other teams just doing a light training ride to stay inside the time cut since they would be getting the maximum time anyhow. I think time loss could be marginalized with this system. This encourages teams to finish with as many riders as possible to help limit time loss.

Here are some example using the stage 4 TTT.

01 Astana 0:46:29
02 Garmin - Slipstream 0:00:18
03 Team Saxo Bank 0:00:40
04 Liquigas 0:00:58
05 Team Columbia-HTC 0:00:59
06 Team Katusha 0:01:23
07 Caisse d'Epargne 0:01:29
08 Cervelo Test Team 0:01:38
09 AG2R-La Mondiale 0:01:49
10 Euskaltel - Euskadi 0:02:10
11 Rabobank 0:02:21
12 Quick Step 0:02:26
13 Silence - Lotto 0:02:36
14 Francaise Des Jeux 0:02:46
15 Team Milram 0:02:49
16 Cofidis Le Credit en Ligne 0:02:59
17 Lampre - N.G.C 0:03:25
18 Agritubel 0:04:18
19 BBox Bouygues Telecom 0:04:42
20 Skil-Shimano 0:05:23


86 Cadel Evans (Aus) Silence - Lotto 0:02:35
87 Johan Van Summeren (Bel) Silence - Lotto
88 Greg Van Avermaet (Bel) Silence - Lotto 0:02:35
89 Sebastian Lang (Ger) Silence - Lotto
90 Mickael Delage (Fra) Silence - Lotto
91 Matthew Lloyd (Aus) Silence - Lotto
92 Charles Wegelius (GBr) Silence - Lotto
173 Jurgen Van Den Broeck (Bel) Silence - Lotto 0:07:04
174 Staf Scheirlinckx (Bel) Silence - Lotto

158 Thierry Huppond (Fra) Skil-Shimano 0:05:23
159 Koen de Kort (Ned) Skil-Shimano
160 Simon Geschke (Ger) Skil-Shimano
161 Jonathan Hivert (Fra) Skil-Shimano
162 Fumiyuki Beppu (Jpn) Skil-Shimano
163 Cyril Lemoine (Fra) Skil-Shimano
178 Albert Timmer (Ned) Skil-Shimano 0:09:07

Example 1.

Astana had a time of 0:46:29 and Silence - Lotto 0:49:04 for a time of +2:35.
The timed group had seven riders. 2:35/7 = 23 seconds.
Evans, Van Summeren, Van Avermaet, Lang, Delage, Lloyd and Wegelius all get 23 seconds on their GC time.
Van Den Broeck and Scheirlinckx finished 0:53:33 or +7:04
Van Den Broeck and Scheirlinckx. 7:04-2:35 = 4:29 after their team.
So they will get the 4:29+.23 for a total of 4:52 to their GC time.

Example 2.

Team Skil-Shimano was +5:23 on Astana.
The Timed group had six riders. 5:23/6 = 54 seconds.
Huppond, de Kort, Geschke, Hivert, Beppu and Lemoine all get 54 seconds added to their GC time.
Timmer finished at +9:07. 9:07-5:23 = 3:44.
Timmer will get 3:44+54 = 4:38 added to his GC Time.

You could also add in time bonuses of 1:00/0:40/0:20 for 1st,2nd and 3rd place as well.
I think this could limit damages as well as keep teams together.
I like the TTT but do feel time losses need to be minimalized.