TeamWork...

[dolophonic]

Just loved the way Lance & Kloden chased down their own teammate, nice.
At least Frank sat on for a bit, then when he did go he went...
Just showed so much class..

 

[frizzlefry]

just loved the way lance & kloden chased down their own teammate, nice.
At least frank sat on for a bit, then when he did go he went...
Just showed so much class..

lmao.

 

[supercool]

Just loved the way Lance & Kloden chased down their own teammate, nice.
At least Frank sat on for a bit, then when he did go he went...
Just showed so much class..

do you even watch the racing? how is it chasing down when the guy in front puts a minute and half on lance/klodi?! sorry that they still have to race their bikes...

imagine lance not wanting to lose time on the other gc riders...

 

[ezratm]

Lance and Kloden draged a group of the top contenders after there own man, everyone was critical when Tmobile chased down vino back a few years ago,
when one of your team is off the front you let the other contenders drag you up after them, you dont help them catch up like lance and kloden did

Finaly the yellow jersey race has started

 

[dolophonic]

Dude....

... He led the chase after Alberto.. maybe YOU should watch the race again !
As the thread says .... "Teamwork" not save yourself....
I'm not hating,just saying.

 

[richwagmn]

Just loved the way Lance & Kloden chased down their own teammate, nice.
At least Frank sat on for a bit, then when he did go he went...
Just showed so much class..

Chased down? Do you know what tempo riding is?

 

[supercool]

riding behind somone and 'chasing' are two different things.

lol some chase.. he lost a minute thirty and everyone in his group dropped him towards the end!

even armstrong said that he was in difficulty from the bottom of the climb. he was just trying to get to the top without making a fool of himself, if you ask me.

and as far as TEAMWORK goes , lance and kloden lost huge time in 5k! because they were pedaling at the front they were being bad teamates? the guys were riding tempo and everyone in their group was afraid to do ANYTHING until the last few k.

on top of that Lance couldnt have done a damn thing if he wanted to anyways.

 

[BroDeal]

Armstrong was riding for himself. Maybe that was part of an agreement: That AC and LA would ride their own races.

I think it was pretty clear on the first half of the climb that Armstrong was doing his best to limit time losses to AC. In the latter half he realized that he did not have it. So did the other contenders, who then began riding away from him. Until then though, he and Kloden were doing their best to chase Contador.

It is too bad Kloden was not given permission to ride for himself. Armstrong should be helping Kloden, not the other way around.

 

[supercool]

It is also worth pointing out that Astana is now leading the TEAM COMPETITION by almost 3 minutes over saxo bank.

No one seems to like lance and thats why hes a bad team mate and does not know how to work for his team. Seems to me that Astana has got their stuff together better than any other team, alot of this must have to do with their bad team work...

 

[the_prawn]

Armstrong was riding for himself. Maybe that was part of an agreement: That AC and LA would ride their own races.

I think it was pretty clear on the first half of the climb that Armstrong was doing his best to limit time losses to AC. In the latter half he realized that he did not have it. So did the other contenders, who then began riding away from him. Until then though, he and Kloden were doing their best to chase Contador.

It is too bad Kloden was not given permission to ride for himself. Armstrong should be helping Kloden, not the other way around.

I agree with everything except that "Lance and Kloden were doing their best to chase Contador". To me it looked like Lance and Contador were riding their own races, Kloden was pacing Lance up the climb since Lance's style is to usually follow a team mate and then try and shell everyone at the end (clearly he couldn't complete that bit last night).
I'd like to see Kloden riding for himself as well, going by last night I think Lance is lacking in the hills. Even Cadel managed to finish in front of him and Cadel was riding the pain train and battling the whole way up.

Astana are no doubt the best team, I dont think anyone would argue that. Their team work is a little suspect though when to me at least, its clear Lance and Alberto are not racing together. The problem for the other teams is, they're not really racing "against" each other either like you would with a rider from another team so there is still a big advantage to Astana.

Lance will finish 7th.

 

[runninboy]

Armstrong was riding for himself. Maybe that was part of an agreement: That AC and LA would ride their own races.

I think it was pretty clear on the first half of the climb that Armstrong was doing his best to limit time losses to AC. QUOTE]

Sorry not pretty clear to me,
You do realize Andy Schleck was up the road as well ? It is arguable that they were trying to reel him back in and would have sat on had they done so.
That also protects their positons on GC(Kloden & Armstrong) as well as gain time for the team GC.
So i say there are at least 3 compelling reasons for doing what they did vs your 1.
pretty clear?
hardly dude

 

[jaylew]

do you even watch the racing? how is it chasing down when the guy in front puts a minute and half on lance/klodi?! sorry that they still have to race their bikes...

imagine lance not wanting to lose time on the other gc riders...

Well, at the time the only GC contender he was losing time to was A Schleck. I really don't think it was a huge deal but they probably should have made Cadel, Wiggins, etc...force the tempo instead of letting them sit on and then jump away.

 

[BroDeal]

Sorry not pretty clear to me,
You do realize Andy Schleck was up the road as well ? It is arguable that they were trying to reel him back in and would have sat on had they done so.
That also protects their positons on GC(Kloden & Armstrong) as well as gain time for the team GC.
So i say there are at least 3 compelling reasons for doing what they did vs your 1.
pretty clear?
hardly dude

Yeah, that's the ticket. Reel Schleck back in...and drag everyone else closer to Contador while they are doing it. It all makes perfect sense now.

It was the duty of riders like Evans and Wiggins to chase Schleck--not Contador's supposed teammates.

 

[Barracuda]

All speculation of course unless youve got a crystal ball in your back pocket..... but I agree with RUNNINBOY. Alberto was never going to lose once he took off..... so why not have three GC riders in your team to ensure a team win ..... strong teams will always have that luxury ..... why not keep your overall time (ala lance and kloden) as close to the strongest rider ... then the others have to make a descision on who to chase later in the week.

All things being equal ( thats for all the people professing LA and AC are juiced ) the other teams need to harden the *&%# up and beat them on their merits. SIMPLE.

 

[12to12]

Lance Can't Sit On

No crystal ball required, no fancy exceptions and excuses required either when a team mate attacks, you sit on, it's that simple. You don't ride tempo against your own team, unless you are a selfish a-hole.

 

[Animal]

Lance and Kloden draged a group of the top contenders after there own man, everyone was critical when Tmobile chased down vino back a few years ago,
when one of your team is off the front you let the other contenders drag you up after them, you dont help them catch up like lance and kloden did

Finaly the yellow jersey race has started

Exactly what I said when I saw Kloeden and Lance riding. Just like Telekom. The fact is that Kloeden and Lance should have left it entirely up to the Schlecks, Sastre, Wiggo, VdV or whoever was there to limit the losses to Astana.

If possible, Kloeden should have sat on while the Schlecks chased and then attacked them solo. Pulling the other contenders up the final climb?

There's now one more team in the Race. Team Contador. He has to ride smart to beat Astana solo. No bad days from here on.

 

[BroDeal]

Note the difference between what Armstrong/Kloden did and what Frank Schleck did. When Frank Schleck was trying to bridge to his brother and noticed Wiggins and Nibali sitting on, he stopped working, forcing Wiggins to do the work.

 

[Animal]

'zackly. Which is what Kloeden should have done.

 

[runninboy]

Yeah, that's the ticket. Reel Schleck back in...and drag everyone else closer to Contador while they are doing it. It all makes perfect sense now.

It was the duty of riders like Evans and Wiggins to chase Schleck--not Contador's supposed teammates.

Even if you believe what you wrote, my point is it was not
"pretty clear" as you stated there was more than one scenario for what played out.
In fact 3 alternatives
And it is at least debatable that they did not drag anyone closer to Contador and even if they had , how do you know the plan was not to have LA in yellow today? You must admit AC is pretty strong and probably could concede the jersey today and still gain it back in the final week?
maybe giving Astana a podium sweep in Paris. What do you know of their strategy?
AND they did get the TEAM GC
AND Armstrong & Kloden both improved their overall positions
to 2nd & 4th.

Sounds like their strategy was successful no matter what you believe personally

and speaking of duty
is it not normally considered the "duty" of teams with sprinters to share the workload in reeling in breakaways?

 

[BroDeal]

And it is at least debatable that they did not drag anyone closer to Contador and even if they had , how do you know the plan was not to have LA in yellow today? You must admit AC is pretty strong and probably could concede the jersey today and still gain it back in the final week?

Contador is going to give up the chance to gain time so Armstrong can waltz through a few stages in yellow? It looks like it's not only cyclists in France who are on drugs.

 

[runninboy]

Note the difference between what Armstrong/Kloden did and what Frank Schleck did. When Frank Schleck was trying to bridge to his brother and noticed Wiggins and Nibali sitting on, he stopped working, forcing Wiggins to do the work.

Maybe because they did not have the leading rider up the road,
did Saxo win the the stage?
No.
so much for the "smart" strategy.

If you are leading and believe you have the strongest cards you play them differently than those people chasing you.
Astana now has 3 of the top 4 on GC
sounds like a good position to be in no?

 

[runninboy]

Contador is going to give up the chance to gain time so Armstrong can waltz through a few stages in yellow? It looks like it's not only cyclists in France who are on drugs.

I seriously doubt that AC is worried about an old man he already outclimbed and out TT'd let alone the fact that no one can come close to holding his wheel on a climb in this tour. He just gained 40+ seconds in a short 5 kilometer climb with plenty more climbing between now and Paris.
I'm sure he is real worried about Schleck & Nibali taking minutes out of him in the TT as well.

I see why you are not the DS of Astana but with your great knowledge
might i suggest a position at Garmin?

 

[bikeGURU]

I must have watched a different version of the race today. What I saw was Contador attacking the group with absolutely no reaction from Armstrong or Kloden, they didn't even get out of the saddle to lift the pace. To me that says they knew what was happening and waited for Contador to get clear of the group on his own. What I also saw was Armstrong leading Kloden up for part of the next few km until the last 2km of the climb. Kloden was quite happy to sit behind Armstrong for parts and then take the lead and pace him up to the finish. They obviosly knew that they weren't pulling anyone closer to Contador, the time gaps were growing all the way up. This is totally different than TMobile actually pulling the pack up to their leading rider and sabotaging the stage, LA/AK didn't do anything but lose time to AC so they weren't riding to catch him.

 

[Hammerhed]

Yeah, I agree. Lance did nothing wrong but was merely hanging on for dear life. Actually, as a team player he should try to retain as good a position as possible. But now what? Now what about teamwork?
If Alberto trusted Lance, he, Lance, and Kloden could probably work together to assure an all-Astana podium in Gay Paree, and that would be very cool. But Alberto probably has better sense than to help Lance for the next two days rather than to try to put more time on him and the Schleck boy(s). So AC will probably try to use the team all he can (as he should and as he is entitled to do), ride the best ITT he can on Thursday while hoping Lance can't turn back the clock a few years and rip off one of his stunning TT performances of old, and then smoke everyone on Stage 20, forsaking all pretense of camaraderie.
Lance will at least go through the motions of being a team player and continue to play out what he began at the interview phase of Stage 15, proclaiming (pretending?) to accept his defeat and to subject himself to the eminence of Team Leader Contador. I suppose it's appropriate AlphaDog behavior to lick the nuts of the dominant male, but I think Armstrong would rather lick his own cojones than to be so humiliated, but perhaps we will all be surprised to see how encroaching middle age has transformed Lance's taste buds. Are the cameras rolling? Action!

 

[Titaniumtim]

If Armstrong and Kloden had sat on the chase group of Wiggins, Schleck, Sastre and Evens they might have gained on Contador since Armstrong was struggling a lot and wasn't climbing as strong as them. By Armstrong leading it probably slowed them down more giving Contador a bit more time. I am not saying this was their plan but this is how it seemed to work out to me.