Teflon Operacion Galgo survivor exposed : 350 emails leaked to newspaper

[GJB123]

Bang! Adrienne Herzog has been caught with a bad testosteron-epitestosteron balance and has been suspended provisionally. Not so teflon after all, perhaps!

Link is in Dutch:

http://www.nu.nl/sport/3775077/atlete-herzog-voorlopig-geschorst-positieve-dopingtest.html

 

[Benotti69]

I never said it excuses doping. Your problem is that you think far too one-dimensional, black and white. It's more a philosophical discussion (at least to me it is) that sports, top sports and life for that matter are all inherently unfair. Whether or not that excuses doping or not is for everybody to decide on their own. I understand why people dope, but I don't like it.

It is black and white, as far as the sporting side goes, you dope you are cheating and therefore breaking the rules and therefore deserve punishment and i believe that punishment should be extremely harsh i.e. a long time.

I understand why people dope, they are human after all and we all know how flawed being human is.

 

[Cloxxki]

So is she a lying betraying adultrous b**** due for a punishment?
Or a super tragic misfit that can't shake her reputation, and feel forced to keep doping far away from the homeland?

I worry for her mental health. Athletes have thrown the towel on life over less than she's done and gone through. A life time ban should be imposed just to protect her against the life she's in. Sports doesn't work for this lady.

Who would have ordered the OOC test? The Dutch DA?
Herzog has been the ultimate teflon doper. She couldn't shoot up in public and be more obvious. And no athlete I am aware of ever had such huge support from the national federation. She obviously knows too much.
I am quite certain she knows stuff about people on the board of Dutch Athletics. And there's people there to know stuff on. They've gone on sports shows just to downplay the role of doping in our country and sport. When Herzog got in trouble again, and when for instance Tyson Gay got caught.

Will they allow to get this real ugly, drag on forever, Landis/Pistorius style?
Landis I actually believe he wasn't actively T doping at his TdF. This time...it's a miracle she got tested in the first place. Can't complain on what was found. She's an EPO addict, so much has become apparent from the many leaked emails. Could this in inself skew E/T levels perhaps?

Someone needs to remove her from sports. For her own sake foremore, and for the sake of clean and open sports second.
Or, perhaps a sweatheart deal if she tells all about the Dutch Federation's board? No-one would protect anyone as much EVER. Not an underaged orphan would be embraced by a federation as she's been. It's sickeningly dirty, but WHAT does she know, or who's pulling the strings to have her protected? Her ex (and proven doper) Simon Vroemen is still crazy about her. he surely knows stuff. If only because of his own coverup after going "ill" in Goteborg. His Matschiner/Rabobank dealings. The young athletes he sent to Matschiner. It may be above Athletics actually, the cover-up could be National OC sponsored for that matter.
Now, with the E/T positive, the fed could not ignore it. And we hear of it after 2 months, and no B sample as yet. Dragging feet much?

 

[GJB123]

It is black and white, as far as the sporting side goes, you dope you are cheating and therefore breaking the rules and therefore deserve punishment and i believe that punishment should be extremely harsh i.e. a long time.

I understand why people dope, they are human after all and we all know how flawed being human is.

Go ahead, react to post of 21 August 2013, if you like.

Again your focus is far too one-dimensional. Where exactly did I claim that doping is okay, doesn't deserve punishment, etc.? You need to look at the bigger picture, but perhaps you too entrenched to look beyond the immediate discussion of doping and punishment. Pity, really!

 

[Benotti69]

Go ahead, react to post of 21 August 2013, if you like. :roll eyes:

Only saw it today.

Again your focus is far too one-dimensional. Where exactly did I claim that doping is okay, doesn't deserve punishment, etc.? You need to look at the bigger picture, but perhaps you too entrenched to look beyond the immediate discussion of doping and punishment. Pity, really!

What bigger picture is there? I look at is as a sport that has an engrained culture to dope.

The culture could be halted to a large extent if the will was there. There will always be cheats and those seeking to gain nefarious advantage, but by and large if rules are obeyed because the fear of penalty for breaking the rules is harsh enough then most will comply.

The UCI control the sport and until they find the will to make doping a risk to great by most nothing will change.

 

[GJB123]

Only saw it today.




What bigger picture is there? I look at is as a sport that has an engrained culture to dope.

The culture could be halted to a large extent if the will was there. There will always be cheats and those seeking to gain nefarious advantage, but by and large if rules are obeyed because the fear of penalty for breaking the rules is harsh enough then most will comply.

The UCI control the sport and until they find the will to make doping a risk to great by most nothing will change.

How about life itself? The discussion was that top sports, sports and even life itself are inherently not fair and that PED abuse is but one aspect of that. Like I said perhaps a tad philosophical but that was what the discussion was. Not the nitty gritty of dope itself and the proper punishments that should go with it. It seems that PED's and doping have become such a pet peeve for you that your singularly unable to take three steps back and see that not all discussions in the Clinic are only geared to doping without any context to it. Like I said look at the bigger picture and if you can't, please accept that if people can, that does not mean they condone doping or use such a more philosophical discussion to justify doping.

 

[sniper]

So is she a lying betraying adultrous b**** due for a punishment?
Or a super tragic misfit that can't shake her reputation, and feel forced to keep doping far away from the homeland?

I worry for her mental health. Athletes have thrown the towel on life over less than she's done and gone through. A life time ban should be imposed just to protect her against the life she's in. Sports doesn't work for this lady.

Who would have ordered the OOC test? The Dutch DA?
Herzog has been the ultimate teflon doper. She couldn't shoot up in public and be more obvious. And no athlete I am aware of ever had such huge support from the national federation. She obviously knows too much.
I am quite certain she knows stuff about people on the board of Dutch Athletics. And there's people there to know stuff on. They've gone on sports shows just to downplay the role of doping in our country and sport. When Herzog got in trouble again, and when for instance Tyson Gay got caught.

Will they allow to get this real ugly, drag on forever, Landis/Pistorius style?
Landis I actually believe he wasn't actively T doping at his TdF. This time...it's a miracle she got tested in the first place. Can't complain on what was found. She's an EPO addict, so much has become apparent from the many leaked emails. Could this in inself skew E/T levels perhaps?

Someone needs to remove her from sports. For her own sake foremore, and for the sake of clean and open sports second.
Or, perhaps a sweatheart deal if she tells all about the Dutch Federation's board? No-one would protect anyone as much EVER. Not an underaged orphan would be embraced by a federation as she's been. It's sickeningly dirty, but WHAT does she know, or who's pulling the strings to have her protected? Her ex (and proven doper) Simon Vroemen is still crazy about her. he surely knows stuff. If only because of his own coverup after going "ill" in Goteborg. His Matschiner/Rabobank dealings. The young athletes he sent to Matschiner. It may be above Athletics actually, the cover-up could be National OC sponsored for that matter.
Now, with the E/T positive, the fed could not ignore it. And we hear of it after 2 months, and no B sample as yet. Dragging feet much?

you raise interesting matters here.
looking forward to hear more from this.

 

[Cloxxki]

The B sample turned out positive too, suspension automatically extended, case will be tried by the National Doping Tribunal. The Athletics Federation buries so many cases they didn't had no need for their own facilities to try doping suspects. Seriously, we're a very small nation and athletics is tiny and low level with few positives so it's not that weird to outsource such complicated matters I suppose.

From the moment Dutch Athletics Federation learned of the positive sample, it took them 10 days to go public and forward the case to the tribunal.
This whole thing had a Contador smell to it even before the A sample positive. The federation tried to get Herzog's ex-bf Simon Vroemen off the hook after collapsing from a bad transfusion in Goteborg. He eventually returned a positive sample, and the case dragged longer than the 2-year suspension. CAS just confirmed the suspension.

Many insiders of the sport agree the Federation's board should absolutely fall over their years long protection of Herzog, creating exception just for her, and now seeing her get caught. All we get is silence.
SOMEONE did their job for once. Come on, an out of competition test in Denver, for a Dutch athlete with VERY modest performances.

When the US and Jamaican sprinters tested positive, the Dutch Federation sent 1992 Barcelona (1) 800m gold medallist Ellen van Langen to national TV to comfort sport loving viewers that now the sport was clean after all, and
dealt with effectively and strictly.
After a VERY RARE positive, by a member of the federation's top selection team member? Crickets...

The federation's official media partner, the AD newspaper, did not even report the B-positive in their paper edition, or so I was told by a subscriber and atheltics insider. Way to keep athetics in the spotlight. AD.nl did report it BTW.

Interesting to note is that while Herzog left a tricker, stinkier trail of evidence than even Ricardo Ricco, and had her voice drop by 2 octaves after her 24th birthday, only after her positive a few prominent athletes were ready to tell her off in tweets.
IMO that is hypocrit and lame. Some of them are outspoken anti-doping but were not prepared to openly convict guilty behavior. Like failing to repond to Spain's invitation to inform the court in Operacion Galgo. Or the federation giving the refusal a silent nod. Michael Boogerd and Human Plasma all over again.

 

[sniper]

thanks cloxxki, great post, salient info and clear analysis of the situation.

had her voice drop by 2 octaves after her 24th birthday

lol.

no surprise here.
another antidoping body protecting its athletes rather than chasing them down.
the people involved here seem to have massive loads of butter on their heads.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Thanks for the update, Cloxxki.

 

[Cloxxki]

Please do not mistake a sports federation and their (officially) anti-doping commitments with a national anti-doping agency.
Like the difference between US Cycling and USADA and how each handled the Armstrong situation. Or the Spanish police and the Spanish Cycling Fed with Contador.

I do feel the Dutch ADA does fine work, but they have much more limited tools (legeal mandate) and funding than USADA. They've been clear to want to pursue Herzog. Perhaps in they end they just struck a deal with USADA and transferred funds to get her tested at opportune times.

 

[neineinei]

AMSTERDAM (AP) " The Dutch Athletics Federation has banned runner Adrienne Herzog for two years after she failed an out-of-competition test in America last year.

Herzog, a two-time bronze medal winner at European cross-country championships, was provisionally banned by Dutch authorities in May last year following a positive test on March 16.

In a brief statement Wednesday announcing the ban, the Dutch federation did not say what form of doping she was found to have used. The Dutch sports tribunal that confirmed the doping violation also refused to elaborate.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/new...nd:&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[Cloxxki]

She's still denying and considering appeal.
Might have hopes to qualify for Rio, never having qualified for Olympics before. But this time marathon? It might just work, but just one chance after the ban expires.
If it were fiction, it passed into being unbelievable years ago. Yet, here it is. Still denying. She makes Ricco seem like a very recluse secretive person.

In other news, she promoted herelf from soprano to barotone, and Gilette wants her to promote awkward hair removal. She's been sporting red dots seemingly from shaving...her belly.
That Gilette part I make up, but more believable than the rest of it.