Tempo v Steady State Intervals

[elapid]

I have just switched from tempo to steady state intervals in my training. I have no problems with tempo intervals (75-90% of FTP at 70-80 cadence), but cannot complete my steady state intervals (90-105% of FTP at 85-95 cadence for 10 minutes x 3). The first interval is fine, the second I struggle to maintain my power within the range, and I usually pop half way through the third steady state interval. This has been consistent every time I try steady state intervals over the last two years. Any ideas and any suggestions?

 

[David Suro]

If you are unable to complete a set of three intervals within certain parameters, your parameters are not appropriate. Making the intervals slightly easier would create a situation where you will be able to finish the workout in a condition where you have enough capacity so that you can push a little extra hard for the last minute or so of the final effort (which is ideal).

You could do try any of the following suggestions:

Shorten the interval length to eight minutes. Once you can complete three intervals of eight minutes with the other parameters remaining as they are, you can lengthen the intervals to nine minutes, then ten minutes.

or

Change the percentage of FTP for the interval to 90%-100%. Easing back a bit on the effort means you will likely be fresher for the final interval, thus having a better chance of completing it. Once you can complete three intervals at 90%-100%, then you can increase the effort to 90%-105% FTP.

or

Ride in a larger gear with a lower cadence(the 70-80 r.p.m. with which you are comfortable). In your interval sessions, you are overloading on both cadence and power. It is ideal to overload only one aspect of training per workout (i.e. power, cadence, time on the bike, top end speed). Specificity of training is essential to get the most out of your session.

 

[the big ring]

I'd also do your tempo intervals as 100rpm, unless you specifically race at 70-80 rpm. That should then help you when doing SS intervals at the higher cadence.

 

[Tapeworm]

Power is a cruel mistress.

If you can't do between 90-105% of your FTP for 10 mins I would suggest that your FTP parameters are wrong. By definition.

Is it an ergo PM or one on your bike? If the later do a 40km TT, nothing like pinning on a number to get a good sense of what your FTP really is.

 

[elapid]

FTP was determined on my bike using a PT. I don't think my FTP is incorrect because I can hold my tempo range without a problem, in fact I am often either in the higher end or a little bit over the range for tempo intervals. I have never had a problem with tempo intervals, nor unders-and-overs, but steady states have always been a problem. Yes, a very cruel mistress!

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

FTP was determined on my bike using a PT.

By what method?

 

[usedtobefast]

"mind over matter" easier said than done. relaxing while going hard. i can't say that is your issue, but pain is a real inhibitor. "suffering". we are only human.

 

[Tapeworm]

FTP was determined on my bike using a PT. I don't think my FTP is incorrect because I can hold my tempo range without a problem, in fact I am often either in the higher end or a little bit over the range for tempo intervals. I have never had a problem with tempo intervals, nor unders-and-overs, but steady states have always been a problem. Yes, a very cruel mistress!

What testing did you do with a PT, an hour time trial? Or was it extraplated from a shorter effort?

Your functional threshold power is that which you can hold for one hour. If you can't hold, say, 90 - 100% of FTP for 10mins then, by definition, your FTP must be incorrect.

There may be a variety of factors for this, you may perhaps have an excellent anerobic threshold which helps on shorter and much more intensive intervals? Not sure. FTP can change, hence the need for regular reassement.

Like I mentioned, nothing like a 40km TT to really work out your FTP. I nearly cried when I first did mine with power, a lowly 267watts, but I was able to realign my training and have benefited from this.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

By the way, when estimating/testing for FTP here are a couple of items that might assist:

Methods of estimating FTP.

Common mistakes made when estimating FTP.

 

[elapid]

No, it wasn't a full hour effort but extrapolated from two shorter efforts. I get some coaching from Carmichael Training Systems and they work out FTP from what is called a field test. The field test basically consists of 2 x 8 minute all out efforts with a 10 or 15 minute rest between sets.

 

[Tapeworm]

No, it wasn't a full hour effort but extrapolated from two shorter efforts. I get some coaching from Carmichael Training Systems and they work out FTP from what is called a field test. The field test basically consists of 2 x 8 minute all out efforts with a 10 or 15 minute rest between sets.

At a guess I would say that the protocols used for determining your FTP from those efforts are incorrect then, based on the feedback from the sessions you have provided.

I know I am starting to sound like a broken record, you can hold your FTP for an hour. If you can't, then its not your FTP.

I would suggest reading Alex's stuff.

Strongly suggest.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

No, it wasn't a full hour effort but extrapolated from two shorter efforts. I get some coaching from Carmichael Training Systems and they work out FTP from what is called a field test. The field test basically consists of 2 x 8 minute all out efforts with a 10 or 15 minute rest between sets.

Hmmm.

Well if I recall correctly, that is a test for determining heart rate at threshold, not power.

2 x 8-min efforts is a pretty poor test for estimating FTP. Have a read of the links I posted before to select one or two more appropriate means.

The easiest is simply what you are actually able to do over the course of regular long intervals (e.g. 2x20-min threshold tolerance efforts with only a short break between).

 

[elapid]

Thanks for all your answers and recommendations. I am getting coaching so I still wanted to ride according to my coach's power ranges and instructions. So rather than re-doing my FTP based on a 40 km TT, I just tweaked things as recommended: 3 x 8 minutes rather than 3 x 10 minutes, I didn't start my first interval so hard, and I kept my cadence in the 85-90 range rather than up at 95. This was much better and I was able to stay within my steady state power range for all the intervals. Thanks again.