The 2015 CQ Ranking Manager Thread

[nepetalactone]

I knew loading with Aussies for 15 minutes of early-season fame was a good strategy!

 

[sublimit]

Subs wtf 4 Aussie tters

Look on CQranking there's provisional results now

I'm hoping Hepburn will start to sprint again like he used to a couple of years back but yes I may have overdone it here. I may have to wait a while for more points from them apart from Porte possibly.

 

[vladimir]

I knew loading with Aussies for 15 minutes of early-season fame was a good strategy!

Having zero Aussies is also a nice strategy if you want to be among the highest weekly climbers in February. At least this is what I can hope for at the moment

 

[LaFlorecita]

Wow, Sagan, Quintana, Froome and Rodriguez all in the same team

I wanted Sagan, Froome, Purito and Alberto & also Valgren and Styby but my first draft was 33 riders at 12700 points

 

[Panda Claws]

Skidmark, I was quite late in submitting my team to you (I believe I only did so about 2 days ago AFTER the Aussie TT nationals )

Can I still participate this year?

 

[skidmark]

Skidmark, I was quite late in submitting my team to you (I believe I only did so about 2 days ago AFTER the Aussie TT nationals )

Can I still participate this year?

I just PM'd you about that; your team was received after the deadline, but it was before the TT race, so there were no results for you to go off of. What's the story with the late team? Just got busy? Forgot about it? I'm all for a more inclusive game, and if you can tell me that you made this team without seeing the thread or anyone else's picks, I personally am happy with that kind of honour system. The facts are that you've played before and when I run your team through the popularity charts it's one of the 30 least popular, so there isn't much evidence to suggest that you've gained any advantage by being late. That said, rules are rules, and 153 teams were able to get theirs in before the deadline, so I don't want any flexibility on my part to be taken as an invitation for future team submissions to be whenever.

If anyone feels strongly about this, please chime in, but I'm inclined to accept this team. I did the same thing for a team at velorooms that was 12 hours late; the poster told me he had not looked at any of the thread etc (and it helped that he had 8 unique riders and the third least popular team).

 

[LaFlorecita]

I just PM'd you about that; your team was received after the deadline, but it was before the TT race, so there were no results for you to go off of. What's the story with the late team? Just got busy? Forgot about it? I'm all for a more inclusive game, and if you can tell me that you made this team without seeing the thread or anyone else's picks, I personally am happy with that kind of honour system. The facts are that you've played before and when I run your team through the popularity charts it's one of the 30 least popular, so there isn't much evidence to suggest that you've gained any advantage by being late. That said, rules are rules, and 153 teams were able to get theirs in before the deadline, so I don't want any flexibility on my part to be taken as an invitation for future team submissions to be whenever.

If anyone feels strongly about this, please chime in, but I'm inclined to accept this team. I did the same thing for a team at velorooms that was 12 hours late; the poster told me he had not looked at any of the thread etc (and it helped that he had 8 unique riders and the third least popular team).

Oh dear I've got an idea who that was

anyway I have no issues with including Panda Claws

 

[Netserk]

I'm absolutely fine with it, but if he does too well can you at least give him an asterisk? Some kind of badge of shame for being late

 

[Jancouver]

I just PM'd you about that; your team was received after the deadline, but it was before the TT race, so there were no results for you to go off of. What's the story with the late team? Just got busy? Forgot about it? I'm all for a more inclusive game, and if you can tell me that you made this team without seeing the thread or anyone else's picks, I personally am happy with that kind of honour system. The facts are that you've played before and when I run your team through the popularity charts it's one of the 30 least popular, so there isn't much evidence to suggest that you've gained any advantage by being late. That said, rules are rules, and 153 teams were able to get theirs in before the deadline, so I don't want any flexibility on my part to be taken as an invitation for future team submissions to be whenever.

If anyone feels strongly about this, please chime in, but I'm inclined to accept this team. I did the same thing for a team at velorooms that was 12 hours late; the poster told me he had not looked at any of the thread etc (and it helped that he had 8 unique riders and the third least popular team).

I run your team through the popularity charts it's one of the 30 least popular, so there isn't much evidence to suggest that you've gained any advantage by being late.

Complete nonsense. It this actually advantage to see other teams and pick more unique riders. Rules are rules and if you miss the deadline, well, too bad. No team received after the deadline should be included. He can still play his own little game and see how he does. Nothing personal, just sticking to the rules and common sense ...

JMHO

 

[cineteq]

Complete nonsense. It this actually advantage to see other teams and pick more unique riders. Rules are rules and if you miss the deadline, well, too bad. No team received after the deadline should be included. He can still play his own little game and see how he does. Nothing personal, just sticking to the rules and common sense

The rules are the rules.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I'm absolutely fine with it, but if he does too well can you at least give him an asterisk? Some kind of badge of shame for being late

That's a good one.

And maybe if he wins 2nd place wins too, or he can't win at all.

The more the merrier. MC_mountain is also going to include someone in the youth game who was 4 days late. It's just a game.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I run your team through the popularity charts it's one of the 30 least popular, so there isn't much evidence to suggest that you've gained any advantage by being late.

Complete nonsense. It this actually advantage to see other teams and pick more unique riders. Rules are rules and if you miss the deadline, well, too bad. No team received after the deadline should be included. He can still play his own little game and see how he does. Nothing personal, just sticking to the rules and common sense ...

JMHO

Unique riders are more likely not to be a good pick.

 

[Jancouver]

Unique riders are more likely not to be a good pick.

So how many of these were TOP picks last year?

Name Cost CQ2014
CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto 1228 2543
KWIATKOWSKI Michal 995 1948
GERRANS Simon 511 1736
DUMOULIN Tom 601 1408
PERAUD Jean-Christophe 586 1312
ARU Fabio 262 1092
VAN ASBROECK Tom 250 1086
MATTHEWS Michael 470 980
COLBRELLI Sonny 276 878
NAVARDAUSKAS Ramunas 242 806
BOONEN Tom 139 783
WELLENS Tim 132 748
SWIFT Ben 158 745
FINETTO Mauro 293 705
YATES Adam 55 662
KENNAUGH Peter 93 600
FORMOLO Davide 59 593
BAUGNIES Jérôme 117 580
VALGREN ANDERSEN Michael 82 563
VANENDERT Jelle 96 534
HAAS Nathan 104 523
VAN GENECHTEN Jonas 153 521
BOLE Grega 166 521
DILLIER Silvan 106 492
BONIFAZIO Niccolo 18 484
ZAKARIN Ilnur 86 478
DI GREGORIO Rémy 35 476
CHAVES RUBIO Jhoan Esteban 0 476
JANS Roy 41 404
DAVIDENOK Ilya 58 372
HARDY Romain 46 354
JUUL JENSEN Christopher 15 331
ANACONA GOMEZ Winner Andrew 20 308
Total 7493 26042

 

[LaFlorecita]

So how many of these were TOP picks last year?

Name Cost CQ2014
CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto 1228 2543
KWIATKOWSKI Michal 995 1948
GERRANS Simon 511 1736
DUMOULIN Tom 601 1408
PERAUD Jean-Christophe 586 1312
ARU Fabio 262 1092
VAN ASBROECK Tom 250 1086
MATTHEWS Michael 470 980
COLBRELLI Sonny 276 878
NAVARDAUSKAS Ramunas 242 806
BOONEN Tom 139 783
WELLENS Tim 132 748
SWIFT Ben 158 745
FINETTO Mauro 293 705
YATES Adam 55 662
KENNAUGH Peter 93 600
FORMOLO Davide 59 593
BAUGNIES Jérôme 117 580
VALGREN ANDERSEN Michael 82 563
VANENDERT Jelle 96 534
HAAS Nathan 104 523
VAN GENECHTEN Jonas 153 521
BOLE Grega 166 521
DILLIER Silvan 106 492
BONIFAZIO Niccolo 18 484
ZAKARIN Ilnur 86 478
DI GREGORIO Rémy 35 476
CHAVES RUBIO Jhoan Esteban 0 476
JANS Roy 41 404
DAVIDENOK Ilya 58 372
HARDY Romain 46 354
JUUL JENSEN Christopher 15 331
ANACONA GOMEZ Winner Andrew 20 308
Total 7493 26042

Most of them were moderately popular (30+ picks). I'm sure you agree that if you were to pick a team out of all riders with less than 30 picks, you'd have to be very lucky to pick the right riders. They are not obvious picks.

It would be very sad to exclude a member from participating simply because they missed the deadline by a couple days

 

[del1962]

I am with Flo on this one

 

[Jancouver]

Most of them were moderately popular (30+ picks). I'm sure you agree that if you were to pick a team out of all riders with less than 30 picks, you'd have to be very lucky to pick the right riders. They are not obvious picks.

It would be very sad to exclude a member from participating simply because they missed the deadline by a couple days

Yes, it is sad, but that is life. Sometimes you have to pay the price for your mistakes. Once you start making exceptions and changing the rules, the game rules with stop having a purpose.

Are we gonna add a late submission rule next year? What will that be? 1 hour late is OK? 1 day late is OK? 1 week past the deadline? I have a friend who would like to join and he promised he will not look at current teams so is he also OK to play?

Or should we add exceptions on circumstances? What is OK? Out of town? Sick? Computer not working?

Or how about: I really meant to submit a different rider, can we make an exception and swap my riders?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Yes, it is sad, but that is life. Sometimes you have to pay the price for your mistakes. Once you start making exceptions and changing the rules, the game rules with stop having a purpose.

Are we gonna add a late submission rule next year? What will that be? 1 hour late is OK? 1 day late is OK? 1 week past the deadline? I have a friend who would like to join and he promised he will not look at current teams so is he also OK to play?

Or should we add exceptions on circumstances? What is OK? Out of town? Sick? Computer not working?

Or how about: I really meant to submit a different rider, can we make an exception and swap my riders?

Or: use common sense when deciding if a late submission should be accepted?

 

[Jspear]

Yes, it is sad, but that is life. Sometimes you have to pay the price for your mistakes. Once you start making exceptions and changing the rules, the game rules with stop having a purpose.

Are we gonna add a late submission rule next year? What will that be? 1 hour late is OK? 1 day late is OK? 1 week past the deadline? I have a friend who would like to join and he promised he will not look at current teams so is he also OK to play?

Or should we add exceptions on circumstances? What is OK? Out of town? Sick? Computer not working?

Or how about: I really meant to submit a different rider, can we make an exception and swap my riders?

I'm all for this!! .... Not

No seriously I don't think it has to go that far, but personally I wouldn't feel taken advantaged of if he/she played.

 

[kiilike]

you can submit your team after deadline, but you can use only unused riders = all your picks must be unique

 

[cineteq]

Yes, it is sad, but that is life. Sometimes you have to pay the price for your mistakes. Once you start making exceptions and changing the rules, the game rules with stop having a purpose.

Are we gonna add a late submission rule next year? What will that be? 1 hour late is OK? 1 day late is OK? 1 week past the deadline? I have a friend who would like to join and he promised he will not look at current teams so is he also OK to play?

Also, how about those guys who accepted they were late and they didn't submit their teams only to find out, few days later, that they could have submitted their teams late as well? Is this fair?

I wouldn't feel taken advantage of either but that's not the point.

 

[PeterB]

I agree that rules are rules. But:

- our Panda friend is a returning player from previous editions so kind of belongs to this game
- his previous post on CN forum before today's one is from September last year, so he was probably "out of town" for a while
- he will anyway be haunted by guilty conscience if he used some info from this thread and his team manages to be successful

All of that combined, I do not mind if his team is allowed. I trust that people can't be so dumb that they would try this as a way to gain any unfair advantage. Some form of punishment is however proper. Asterisk as a badge of shame is a great idea. Additionally, I would suggest that he accepts doing something for the game in exchange, e.g. taking care of some of the updates, or assuming responsibility for the new green jersey competition (he's got fitting avatar for this task).

[feel free to change he/his for she/her as appropriate]

 

[LaFlorecita]

I agree that rules are rules. But:

- our Panda friend is a returning player from previous editions so kind of belongs to this game
- his previous post on CN forum before today's one is from September last year, so he was probably "out of town" for a while
- he will anyway be haunted by guilty conscience if he used some info from this thread and his team manages to be successful

All of that combined, I do not mind if his team is allowed. I trust that people can't be so dumb that they would try this as a way to gain any unfair advantage. Some form of punishment is however proper. Asterisk as a badge of shame is a great idea. Additionally, I would suggest that he accepts doing something for the game in exchange, e.g. taking care of some of the updates, or assuming responsibility for the new green jersey competition (he's got fitting avatar for this task).

[feel free to change he/his for she/her as appropriate]

Good post. I agree I think your suggestion of Panda Claws doing some updates is a good one!

 

[ItalianGigolo]

I can uderstand what Jancouver is saying. I'm pretty sure all of us thought about some other riders that we could've picked after we read the forums/spreadsheet. I'm not saying Panda done something like that but this could happen next year and someone might just try to take advantage of this.

I know it's just a game so I think the best solution is that Panda's team will have an asterix or something. I'm also curious to see his team . Is the spreadsheet updated?

 

[EvansIsTheBest]

So how many of these were TOP picks last year?

Name Cost CQ2014
CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto 1228 2543
KWIATKOWSKI Michal 995 1948
GERRANS Simon 511 1736
DUMOULIN Tom 601 1408
PERAUD Jean-Christophe 586 1312
ARU Fabio 262 1092
VAN ASBROECK Tom 250 1086
MATTHEWS Michael 470 980
COLBRELLI Sonny 276 878
NAVARDAUSKAS Ramunas 242 806
BOONEN Tom 139 783
WELLENS Tim 132 748
SWIFT Ben 158 745
FINETTO Mauro 293 705
YATES Adam 55 662
KENNAUGH Peter 93 600
FORMOLO Davide 59 593
BAUGNIES Jérôme 117 580
VALGREN ANDERSEN Michael 82 563
VANENDERT Jelle 96 534
HAAS Nathan 104 523
VAN GENECHTEN Jonas 153 521
BOLE Grega 166 521
DILLIER Silvan 106 492
BONIFAZIO Niccolo 18 484
ZAKARIN Ilnur 86 478
DI GREGORIO Rémy 35 476
CHAVES RUBIO Jhoan Esteban 0 476
JANS Roy 41 404
DAVIDENOK Ilya 58 372
HARDY Romain 46 354
JUUL JENSEN Christopher 15 331
ANACONA GOMEZ Winner Andrew 20 308
Total 7493 26042

Lots of those riders were fairly popular. Besides, there are like 30-40 "top" picks compared to thousands of riders in the CQ Ranking. The sheer number disprecancy between the number of top picks and the rarer ones means that it's obvious that rare picks are going to feature prominently on the optimal team. Yes, popular riders tend to do better because they usually are bargains but they are not immune to illness, crashes, bad luck, bad form, playing second fiddle to another rider on their team, being Andy Schleck or anything else that can ruin a season. On the other hand, from a pool of hundreds of riders there are always a few who will exceed all expectations. For instance, Van Genechten, Zakarin, Davidenyok, Jans and Baugnies weren't picked at all last year because there was no evidence to suggest they could have the kind of season they ended up having. I don't really understand what you are trying to prove here.

For me the game starts with the first race of the season so as long as a team is entered before then I have no issue with it. I get that some people might not like that Panda Claws might have looked at other teams but I have no problem believing him/her if he/she says she didn't look at the other teams. Even if he/she did, you still have to make the right selections. In 2011, ingsve won despite being part of the early entries and not seeing other teams whereas the majority of the entrants could have looked at those early entries if they wished to do so. In fact many people posted their teams in the thread so not looking at other eams was pretty much impossible and yet ingsve won regardless. Guess what, the riders that are selected, are also listed on CQ*. There are no picks that magically appear in the spreadsheet, all riders are already on CQ so anyone building his/her team carefully is aware of existence of the riders that have been selected by other teams. He/She then decide whether or not to include those riders (and the choice is the same whether are not you have looked at other teams). The key to this game is not looking at other teams. It is a sound decision process and a large amount of luck.

* The exception being 0-pointer who are harder to find but Panda Claws is a veteran of the game so I believe he/she knows is aware of the existence of such picks. Actually looking at Panda Claws' 2014 team there are no 0-pointers so maybe he/she doesn't know how to find them. Perhaps if people really want to enforce a sanction on Panda Claws, then not allowing 0-pointers in his/her team is the fairest way to go about it.

 

[skidmark]

I run your team through the popularity charts it's one of the 30 least popular, so there isn't much evidence to suggest that you've gained any advantage by being late.

Complete nonsense. It this actually advantage to see other teams and pick more unique riders. Rules are rules and if you miss the deadline, well, too bad. No team received after the deadline should be included. He can still play his own little game and see how he does. Nothing personal, just sticking to the rules and common sense ...

JMHO

Yeah, our ways of thinking about that were tomato to-mah-to I guess. I see what you're saying, it's an advantage to see other teams regardless. I guess that's really it for me - in the spirit of the game, I'm happy to make an exception if someone has missed out for some reason and says that they haven't been influenced by seeing other people's picks. I want people to play this game and have fun. The deadline is there to have a common standard by which everyone can pick, ie. before any results happen. It happens a couple of days before the first race so we can see each others' teams and discuss for a bit, which is always fun. If someone picks their team independently of all that, I don't see what the practical difference is if they get it in a day later (ie. they haven't seen any teams, no results have happened). It's not like this is something crucial - if I was overseeing granting citizenship to a country or something, I'd be inclined to be strict about following rules to the letter, for sure.

There are two negative possibilities here, as far as I'm concerned - one, that someone might submit a team late and lie to me that they are doing so because of an honest mistake. Two, that if I accept a team late, a larger number of people who are upset about the fairness of this might cynically submit a late team next year after looking at other teams. Both of these are things I don't want to believe would happen, and if they did, well that's just kind of petty and sad to me. I'd rather give people the benefit of the doubt and have them get whatever result they get with their team, and if they're somehow taking advantage of that benefit of the doubt, as far as I'm concerned they can enjoy their meaningless 'victory' all they want.

I'm going to accept this team in the game. I respect that some people are more firm on the 'rules are rules' front than I am, and if this comes around to bite me in the @$$ (ie. the team does well and people are upset at the end of the year) so be it, that'll be on me. I just want to run a game that is fun for people and believe that honest mistakes happen, and a slightly late team was chosen and submitted without influence from anything in this thread.

If you want to give me more feedback (in support or opposition) I'm happy to hear it, but in the end I guess I'm the one to decide on how to run this game and that's what I'm deciding.

edit: just to be clear, Jancouver I know I initially quoted you, but I hope it's evident that was just a lead-in to my post and beyond the first sentence, the post is addressed generally to other folks who have responded (and those who haven't).