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The 2023 CQ Ranking Manager Thread

Page 13 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
as far as I know, he has a team. It's a bit odd that nothing has been announced yet (as contracts were signed back in November), but unless something went completely wrong, he should be more or less okay.

ProCyclingStats doesn't have a team listed, but on closer inspection the UCI site still has him at Drone Hopper - Androni. In that case he could still be a decent enough pick

(edit - So does the team website - Grosu should be ok)
 
Surprises in the popularity table for me.

1. Marc Hirschi. This was a big one. Given the demonstrable breadth of his talent in relation to his results last year, I was shocked to see that only 3 other people have picked him. In a way, I'm glad, because, like Luke Plapp, I believe in his potential to do so much better this year (barring illness and accidents). So, what were the excuses for last year's poor return (by his standards)? Dental issue? Hip needing surgery? Hit by Covid? Well, actually, all of those. He endured a torrid Tour de France, when being tasked with the role of domestique when unfit. I know how long it took for the residual effects of covid to clear my respiratory system and allow normal training ... it was months. His late season form gave me cause for optimism. I hope he doesn't make me look a chump as I have been loyal to him in this game since his neo-pro season.

2. Sam Bennett. Another who is capable of a much better score than last year and who showed signs of returning to his best following his knee issues and an acrimonious exit from the Wolf Pack. I've never picked him before, but I still hope he repays my faith and doesn't make me see the error of my ways.

3. Leonard Kamna. Actually, I do understand why he is less popular. An obvious pick last year, much less so this year. But he has extraordinary talent and I'm pretty sure there's not much down side. However, whether he can conjure a stallar 1000 pt year remains very much with the moon and the stars. This one, as well as being another loyal pick, is more of a punt I think.

I considered Hirschi for a good while myself yet ended up ditching him for my final squad.

When I think of Hirschi, I think of his mega-star 2020 monster potential where he was glued to Alahilippe all fall and could go toe to toe with everyone acceleration-wise and looked so at ease on the bike. + He was a really good climber in his U23 days (Planche des Belles Filles + Dlouhe Strane - etcetera. He was even among the 3 strongest riders on Kapelmuur in BinckBank 2019 and looked like the perfect molded CQ rider in my book. I don't believe it was just a case of being able to train better in Switzerland during the Covid lockdown either, He does possess a lot of class, however, the panorama changed drastically over the last 2 and a half years. As you mention he has been injury and crash plagued since then + he swapped teams from a flatter hierarchy squad to a loaded super-squad and now its not just Pogacar whos in the way, in 2023 we also have the metaphorical rising Ayuso and a solid Adam Yates as well in terms of just hilly classics because in stage-race it's even more complicated and Hirschi hasent show the abilities to go uphill Mountian wise among the professionals either.

He underwent successful hip surgery and it looks like he at least feels better on the bike again. Yet his 2022 season was a bit meh in my eyes. He found a way to win 4-times and that's gotta be respected, however like I said above the visualization of 2020 Hirschi with the one who won Per Sempre Alfredo just dont add up in my head anymore.

For example, the reason I cut him was when i ran Vento Classic back on Tiz Cycling and he couldt follow Nicola Conci (who i did choose) uphill on the last climb and even though he came back and won the race he certainly still didn't look like super-Hirschi. He really had to dig deep and won because of his tactical nouse, attacking 100 meters over the top and flying downhill = game over,

I get why you picked him though, as I said he was in my teams for a while as well, His theoretical potential points explosion is tempting, i just dont know how realistical it really is per 2023.
 
I considered Hirschi for a good while myself yet ended up ditching him for my final squad.

When I think of Hirschi, I think of his mega-star 2020 monster potential where he was glued to Alahilippe all fall and could go toe to toe with everyone acceleration-wise and looked so at ease on the bike. + He was a really good climber in his U23 days (Planche des Belles Filles + Dlouhe Strane - etcetera. He was even among the 3 strongest riders on Kapelmuur in BinckBank 2019 and looked like the perfect molded CQ rider in my book. I don't believe it was just a case of being able to train better in Switzerland during the Covid lockdown either, He does possess a lot of class, however, the panorama changed drastically over the last 2 and a half years. As you mention he has been injury and crash plagued since then + he swapped teams from a flatter hierarchy squad to a loaded super-squad and now its not just Pogacar whos in the way, in 2023 we also have the metaphorical rising Ayuso and a solid Adam Yates as well in terms of just hilly classics because in stage-race it's even more complicated and Hirschi hasent show the abilities to go uphill Mountian wise among the professionals either.

He underwent successful hip surgery and it looks like he at least feels better on the bike again. Yet his 2022 season was a bit meh in my eyes. He found a way to win 4-times and that's gotta be respected, however like I said above the visualization of 2020 Hirschi with the one who won Per Sempre Alfredo just dont add up in my head anymore.

For example, the reason I cut him was when i ran Vento Classic back on Tiz Cycling and he couldt follow Nicola Conci (who i did choose) uphill on the last climb and even though he came back and won the race he certainly still didn't look like super-Hirschi. He really had to dig deep and won because of his tactical nouse, attacking 100 meters over the top and flying downhill = game over,

I get why you picked him though, as I said he was in my teams for a while as well, His theoretical potential points explosion is tempting, i just dont know how realistical it really is per 2023.

He stated last winter that he thought it would be a year before he would be back to his best. He may have been deluding himself (and me) of course. I think a lot will depend upon how he goes early season, as that will define his place in the UAE hierarchy. I would definitely like to see him above Yates, especially for one day and week long races.
 
Interesting. Who do you think is the best 1000+ choice? I will grant that Roglic is not the most exciting 1000+ pointer to imagine what he can do, because we know very well what he can do from 4 years of evidence, and maybe minus a little owing to advancing age and ascendant competition. But in terms of likely points potential, I don't think Ayuso, VdP or Rodriguez have >50% chance of clearing 2500 in 2023, and I think Roglic does.
Sorry about that. I should have probably mentioned it's Ayuso in my post. I seemed fairly obvious that if I didn't rate Roglic as the best 1k+ rider then the only other one I picked would be the one I had as a better pick. I kinda forgot poeple aren't as familiar with my team as I am.

Because he'll start his year earlier and he has no medical question marks to start the season, I actually think there's a decent argument to be made that Ayuso is the safer pick. Roglic at 100% on January 1st absolutely has a higher upside than Ayuso but that's not what we are going to see. Best case scenario, he hits the groud running and suffers no age realted drop off and therefore maintains his 3000 points over a full season level. With the delayed start can we reasonably expect him to score more than 2500 points ? Is that really that far ahead of Ayuso's ceiling ? I'm not sure.

Roglic is also like 240 points more expensive. Granted in that price range that's only a fraction of their cost but that still matters. That's an extra decent rider you can pick if you go with Ayuso.

Surprises in the popularity table for me.

1. Marc Hirschi. This was a big one. Given the demonstrable breadth of his talent in relation to his results last year, I was shocked to see that only 3 other people have picked him. In a way, I'm glad, because, like Luke Plapp, I believe in his potential to do so much better this year (barring illness and accidents). So, what were the excuses for last year's poor return (by his standards)? Dental issue? Hip needing surgery? Hit by Covid? Well, actually, all of those. He endured a torrid Tour de France, when being tasked with the role of domestique when unfit. I know how long it took for the residual effects of covid to clear my respiratory system and allow normal training ... it was months. His late season form gave me cause for optimism. I hope he doesn't make me look a chump as I have been loyal to him in this game since his neo-pro season.
In 2022, Hirschi dominated .1 races because he's far too good for that level. In the WT races, UAE have multiple options that are better than him so he was used as a domestique so far from the finish that he had no chance to score real points regardless of how good he actually was. I'm not sure any of that changed in 2023. With Ayuso a year older, Yates and Wellens coming on board, he should be lower in the UAE hierarchy if anything. Expecting a big point increase feels like a bit of wishful thinking although I guess he'll start the season in better shape so there's that.

Here are some (expensive) cyclists that I am surprised nobody gave a shot:

Tim Wellens: He is priced at 586 points and just switched from Lotto to UAE. He has pretty much always broken 500 points since 2014 and peaked at 1567 points.

Tiesj Benoot: Priced at 543 points he seems like a relatively safe bet to break even.Granted he seems unlikely to truly hit it big.

Filippo Zana: A price-tag of 515 points for a largely unknown quantity is steep but with a young Italian national champion you would expect there to be at least a few true believers.

Bob Jungels: Similar to Stuyven in my opinion. Expensive at 449 points but the talent is there.

Would love to see other takes on this.
I meant to respond to this message earlier but it got lost in the shuffle. I think Wellens is just going to be domestique at UAE. There's too many guys in front of him in the hierarchy. He's also at an age where guys tend to get worse not better so I don't see any upside and he is very expensive. Benoot has been virtually the same rider since 2015, the only thing that fluctuates a little is his race days. It's hard to see why he would suddenly go to a whole new level. There's also a decent argument to be made that he has been passed by Laporte in the team hierarchy on the cobbles which doesn't help. Zana is very expensive and it's hard to shake the feeling that it's a bit fool's gold when you look at the quality of the opposition in the races where he's put up points. Jungels I don't see much upside.

Most of all those guys suffer from the number of good to great picks in that range. Beyond the obvious Alaphilippe and Pidcock, there's some much higher upside guys like Plapp, Johannessen and Piccolo. You also have guys like Ewan and Stuyven who have a far more consistent track record of getting points. Then you add the more intriguing gambles like Vine, Buitrago, Wright, Foss... Realistically I don't think you can put any of the name you mentioned among the top half dozen riders in that price range and I don't think many team go that deep in 400-600 points picks.
 
oh my... zero unique picks... seems to be for the first time in our game.... JACOBS Johan (3) is the rarest one. everyone who picked Johan - I salute you! :)

btw - TARLING Josh (2) is Joshua. skidmark - may I kindly ask you to check this and fix in file - I think it is my team and some other team who also has Josh and not Joshua as the name.
 
to be fair, he said "We have a strong team and I think we can hit the ground running with some great results".

But yeah, I really thought he looked back on track for some good performances last year in the Tour, and that's why I picked him. Covid was a hard hit then apparently, so no idea if that's still an issue, but if not, I think he should be alright. Personally I don't think he just keeps riding for the money alone.
 
Sorry about that. I should have probably mentioned it's Ayuso in my post. I seemed fairly obvious that if I didn't rate Roglic as the best 1k+ rider then the only other one I picked would be the one I had as a better pick. I kinda forgot poeple aren't as familiar with my team as I am.

Because he'll start his year earlier and he has no medical question marks to start the season, I actually think there's a decent argument to be made that Ayuso is the safer pick. Roglic at 100% on January 1st absolutely has a higher upside than Ayuso but that's not what we are going to see. Best case scenario, he hits the groud running and suffers no age realted drop off and therefore maintains his 3000 points over a full season level. With the delayed start can we reasonably expect him to score more than 2500 points ? Is that really that far ahead of Ayuso's ceiling ? I'm not sure.

Roglic is also like 240 points more expensive. Granted in that price range that's only a fraction of their cost but that still matters. That's an extra decent rider you can pick if you go with Ayuso.


In 2022, Hirschi dominated .1 races because he's far too good for that level. In the WT races, UAE have multiple options that are better than him so he was used as a domestique so far from the finish that he had no chance to score real points regardless of how good he actually was. I'm not sure any of that changed in 2023. With Ayuso a year older, Yates and Wellens coming on board, he should be lower in the UAE hierarchy if anything. Expecting a big point increase feels like a bit of wishful thinking although I guess he'll start the season in better shape so there's that.


I meant to respond to this message earlier but it got lost in the shuffle. I think Wellens is just going to be domestique at UAE. There's too many guys in front of him in the hierarchy. He's also at an age where guys tend to get worse not better so I don't see any upside and he is very expensive. Benoot has been virtually the same rider since 2015, the only thing that fluctuates a little is his race days. It's hard to see why he would suddenly go to a whole new level. There's also a decent argument to be made that he has been passed by Laporte in the team hierarchy on the cobbles which doesn't help. Zana is very expensive and it's hard to shake the feeling that it's a bit fool's gold when you look at the quality of the opposition in the races where he's put up points. Jungels I don't see much upside.

Most of all those guys suffer from the number of good to great picks in that range. Beyond the obvious Alaphilippe and Pidcock, there's some much higher upside guys like Plapp, Johannessen and Piccolo. You also have guys like Ewan and Stuyven who have a far more consistent track record of getting points. Then you add the more intriguing gambles like Vine, Buitrago, Wright, Foss... Realistically I don't think you can put any of the name you mentioned among the top half dozen riders in that price range and I don't think many team go that deep in 400-600 points picks.

I understand a lot of what you are saying, but about Hirschi - I think the real question about him is whether one thinks that his 2020 was for clinic reasons or if he's actually capable of that level and has only had two season with health problems. Personally I took the risk, he's my one rider in that price range. :)

And I wanted to ask everyone about Pidcock anyway. I didn't follow the cycling pages much in the past year so I might have missed it, but was there ever a reason given for his weak 2022 spring? If not, what makes people think he's going to be much better this year? In my eyes, at the moment, it looks like he's an extremely talented rider who can dance at all parties but because of that might be tempted to go to all of them and then rarely hit it completely.
 
And I wanted to ask everyone about Pidcock anyway. I didn't follow the cycling pages much in the past year so I might have missed it, but was there ever a reason given for his weak 2022 spring? If not, what makes people think he's going to be much better this year? In my eyes, at the moment, it looks like he's an extremely talented rider who can dance at all parties but because of that might be tempted to go to all of them and then rarely hit it completely.

He had a knee issue for most of the year apparently, that he received treatment for after the season. He had trouble sprinting, where he felt the pain the most, which might explain why he didnt sprint for placings when the win was unattainable in a few races.

We should also remember he came off a huge season in 2021 if we consider all his results on the road, MTB and CX. Could also explain a slow start or "mediocre" year as a reaction to all of what he achieved in the season prior.

He will focus more on the road this season and wants to be better in the classics this year. We will see, but he has great potential to be a point machine.
 
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He had a knee issue for most of the year apparently, that he received treatment for after the season. He had trouble sprinting, where he felt the pain the most, which might explain why he didnt sprint for placings when the win was unattainable in a few races.

We should also remember he came off a huge season in 2021 if we consider all his results on the road, MTB and CX. Could also explain a slow start or "mediocre" year as a reaction to all of what he achieved in the season prior.

He will focus more on the road this season and wants to be better in the classics this year. We will see, but he has great potential to be a point machine.

He also suffered some gastro-intestinal distress for quite a while.
 
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Sorry about that. I should have probably mentioned it's Ayuso in my post. I seemed fairly obvious that if I didn't rate Roglic as the best 1k+ rider then the only other one I picked would be the one I had as a better pick. I kinda forgot poeple aren't as familiar with my team as I am.

Because he'll start his year earlier and he has no medical question marks to start the season, I actually think there's a decent argument to be made that Ayuso is the safer pick. Roglic at 100% on January 1st absolutely has a higher upside than Ayuso but that's not what we are going to see. Best case scenario, he hits the groud running and suffers no age realted drop off and therefore maintains his 3000 points over a full season level. With the delayed start can we reasonably expect him to score more than 2500 points ? Is that really that far ahead of Ayuso's ceiling ? I'm not sure.

Roglic is also like 240 points more expensive. Granted in that price range that's only a fraction of their cost but that still matters. That's an extra decent rider you can pick if you go with Ayuso.

I saw a post of yours further down that explained that after I had replied. I was too eager to catch up on the discussion and didn't wait until I was caught up reading!

Either way, the Ayuso/Roglic debate is academic for me since I have 'em both. Suffice to say we both think they're the two best >1000 pointers available.

btw - TARLING Josh (2) is Joshua. skidmark - may I kindly ask you to check this and fix in file - I think it is my team and some other team who also has Josh and not Joshua as the name.

Yes a few helpful posters have messaged me with name corrections, which I'm gonna put in the master sheet in the next day. I will notify the thread when the official final version is ready!

He had a knee issue for most of the year apparently, that he received treatment for after the season. He had trouble sprinting, where he felt the pain the most, which might explain why he didnt sprint for placings when the win was unattainable in a few races.

We should also remember he came off a huge season in 2021 if we consider all his results on the road, MTB and CX. Could also explain a slow start or "mediocre" year as a reaction to all of what he achieved in the season prior.

He will focus more on the road this season and wants to be better in the classics this year. We will see, but he has great potential to be a point machine.

I think aside from the knee injury, it was a bit of botched timing in terms of peak form. This year he's skipping the CX worlds with the explicit focus on the spring races. Plus (partially due to the knee injury) he didn't sprint for placings last year so even when he was up there he was a bit of a waste, CQ-wise.
 
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The popularity of every 400+ points rider aka the list of which expensive riders matter this year:
ALAPHILIPPE Julian​
95​
PIDCOCK Thomas​
74​
ROGLIC Primoz​
56​
SAGAN Peter​
28​
ACKERMANN Pascal​
26​
AYUSO PESQUERA Juan​
25​
WRIGHT Fred​
24​
PICCOLO Andrea​
22​
LUTSENKO Alexey​
22​
STUYVEN Jasper​
22​
JOHANNESSEN Tobias Halland​
19​
VAN DER POEL Mathieu​
14​
ALMEIDA Joao Pedro Gonçalves​
14​
EWAN Caleb​
14​
SHEFFIELD Magnus​
13​
PLAPP Lucas​
13​
GAUDU David​
11​
RODRIGUEZ CANO Carlos​
8​
GIRMAY HAILU Biniam​
8​
YATES Simon​
7​
GANNA Filippo​
7​
GROVES Kaden​
7​
VINE Jay​
7​
WOODS Michael​
6​
BENNETT Sam​
5​
KÄMNA Lennard​
5​
KOOIJ Olav​
4​
SKJELMOSE JENSEN Mattias​
4​
JAKOBSEN Fabio​
4​
HIRSCHI Marc​
4​
VAUQUELIN Kévin​
4​
LEKNESSUND Andreas​
4​
THIJSSEN Gerben​
4​
HAYTER Ethan​
3​
ARENSMAN Thymen​
3​
BUITRAGO SANCHEZ Santiago​
3​
FOSS Tobias Svendsen​
3​
DE LIE Arnaud​
2​
MAS NICOLAU Enric​
2​
IZAGIRRE INSAUSTI Ion​
2​
BETTIOL Alberto​
2​
SIVAKOV Pavel​
2​
NIZZOLO Giacomo​
2​
VANSEVENANT Mauri​
2​
MEEUS Jordi​
2​
VINGEGAARD RASMUSSEN Jonas​
1​
HIGUITA GARCIA Sergio Andres​
1​
BILBAO LOPEZ DE ARMENTIA Pello​
1​
MERLIER Tim​
1​
TEUNS Dylan​
1​
LANDA MEANA Mikel​
1​
POWLESS Neilson​
1​
MOLLEMA Bauke​
1​
SCHMID Mauro​
1​
PINOT Thibaut​
1​
ARANBURU DEBA Alexander​
1​
GARCIA CORTINA Ivan​
1​
ALBANESE Vincenzo​
1​
GUERREIRO Ruben Antonio Almeida​
1​
SENECHAL Florian​
1​
BATTISTELLA Samuele​
1​
TRATNIK Jan​
1​
CARTHY Hugh​
1​
COVI Alessandro​
1​
POGACAR Tadej​
0​
EVENEPOEL Remco​
0​
VAN AERT Wout​
0​
VLASOV Aleksandr​
0​
PEDERSEN Mads​
0​
KRISTOFF Alexander​
0​
PHILIPSEN Jasper​
0​
KÜNG Stefan​
0​
DEMARE Arnaud​
0​
VALVERDE BELMONTE Alejandro​
0​
CARAPAZ MONTENEGRO Richard Antonio​
0​
MARTINEZ POVEDA Daniel Felipe​
0​
MATTHEWS Michael​
0​
LAPORTE Christophe​
0​
HINDLEY Jai​
0​
COSNEFROY Benoît​
0​
YATES Adam​
0​
MARTIN Guillaume​
0​
MOHORIC Matej​
0​
MADOUAS Valentin​
0​
THOMAS Geraint​
0​
ROTA Lorenzo​
0​
BARGUIL Warren​
0​
GROENEWEGEN Dylan​
0​
BARDET Romain​
0​
HOFSTETTER Hugo​
0​
THOMAS Benjamin​
0​
O'CONNOR Ben​
0​
MEINTJES Louis​
0​
TRENTIN Matteo​
0​
ULISSI Diego​
0​
MCNULTY Brandon​
0​
ZINGLE Axel​
0​
VAN BAARLE Dylan​
0​
SIMON Julien​
0​
QUINTANA ROJAS Nairo Alexander​
0​
VAN GESTEL Dries​
0​
HERRADA LOPEZ Jesus​
0​
LOPEZ MORENO Miguel Angel​
0​
CAPIOT Amaury​
0​
VAN POPPEL Danny​
0​
CARUSO Damiano​
0​
HERMANS Quinten​
0​
MOZZATO Luca​
0​
LOUVEL Matis​
0​
VAN AVERMAET Greg​
0​
CAVENDISH Mark​
0​
HIRT Jan​
0​
WELLENS Tim​
0​
CONSONNI Simone​
0​
SOSA CUERVO Ivan Ramiro​
0​
URAN URAN Rigoberto​
0​
NIBALI Vincenzo​
0​
POZZOVIVO Domenico​
0​
COQUARD Bryan​
0​
BENOOT Tiesj​
0​
ZANA Filippo​
0​
TURGIS Anthony​
0​
CICCONE Giulio​
0​
LATOUR Pierre​
0​
VUILLERMOZ Alexis​
0​
CHAVES RUBIO Jhoan Esteban​
0​
SKUJINS Toms​
0​
CAMPENAERTS Victor​
0​
TESFATSION Natnael Ocbit​
0​
FUGLSANG Jakob​
0​
ALLEGAERT Piet​
0​
HOULE Hugo​
0​
MOLARD Rudy​
0​
DE BONDT Dries​
0​
JUNGELS Bob​
0​
BAUHAUS Phil​
0​
WALSCHEID Maximilian​
0​
NAESEN Oliver​
0​
THEUNS Edward​
0​
OLDANI Stefano​
0​
LOPEZ PEREZ Juan Pedro​
0​
KANTER Max​
0​
SOLER GIMENEZ Marc​
0​
VERONA QUINTANILLA Carlos​
0​
CORT NIELSEN Magnus​
0​
GILBERT Philippe​
0​
PACHER Quentin​
0​
POLANC Jan​
0​
BOUWMAN Koen​
0​
DUJARDIN Sandy​
0​
No Pogacar, Evenepoel or Van Aert this year which would have been great green jersey oriented picks at the very least so the lone Vingegaard pick is our most expensive splurge.
In the 600-1000 range, Sheffield (13), Almeida (14) and Gaudu (11) are the only one picked 10+ times. Yates (7) and Bennett (5) are the only addition if we expand to 5+ times. It seems like I wasn't alone in disregarding that section this year.

About that Vingegaard team, Jon Ezeitza paired him with Philipsen and Carlos Rodriguez. Uijtedebroeks is their fourth most expensive rider at 253 points. One of the more extreme stars and fillers approach we have seen ever.