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The 2025 CQ Ranking Manager Thread

Page 16 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Would be interesting to hear if anyone actually considered any of my five unique picks:
Steff Cras
Kim Heiduk
Pavel Novak
Michele Gazzoli
Iker Mintegi
Personally I considered Stef Cras very hard, as I think he's shown the recovery for stage racing while being seriously unlucky still. I seem to remember him being part of the same crash that derailed Remcos and Vingegaards seasons, but he was really bad off as well. On the other hand he seems to have stability, but lacks the top level, and I can't really see him win or top3 anywhere. In the end I found other more interesting prospects in his point area.
 
Very satisfied with my team despite being near the bottom of the popularity ranking (I like picking outsiders so no real surprise)! The only one I had overlooked of the popular picks is Tao G Hart, and he wouldn't have made the cut anyway. So I have five unique picks and 7 others picked by less than 10 teams to root for in 2025. Would probably have replaced Caleb Ewan if I knew that he wasn't listed for Jayco, but apart from that I still think that my team has every chance to do well in 2025. Would be interesting to hear if anyone actually considered any of my five unique picks:
Steff Cras
Kim Heiduk
Pavel Novak
Michele Gazzoli
Iker Mintegi
Heiduk was on my long list
 
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I thought him and Van Aert would be popular, so I actively decided to not do that to have a different team. Different strategy. Either it will put me miles off, or it will be an advantage.

At one point I had a bunch of young riders and the likes of Morgado, Hagenes, Christen... but I went full GC stage-racers with my top picks instead.
Your team looks pretty interesting and is the total contrast to the popular van Aert and Vingegaard approach in the expensive segment.

If one or even both (Vingegaard and van Aert) have worse seasons than expected, your team willl definetly have an advantage..
 
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Still, it wasn't like he wasn't riding in the second part of the season. He was racing, but simply didn't perform. So that is part of the reason I'm wobbling on him. It's not that he isn't talented. I had him last season for a reason. I'm just not wanting to gamble on him taking the next big leap right away.

Another factor is that he's not really a climbing talent like Tiberi, Del Toro or Jan Christen etc. And he's not really a super sprinter from what I've seen so it's hard to really know what his ceiling is in terms of what types of races he can win. He was 5th in De Ronde but he consistently said that he didn't like cobbles and it seemed more that he was sent to the cobbled classics because UAE didn't have anyone else to send there. At least that's what it felt like at the time.
As I said, I accept the assessment of him being a risky pick. But he's just a very intriguing type of a rider. I've always thought of him as a rider for hilly races but then he almost won a nearly flat cobbled race in Le Samyn and was 5th in Flanders, showing a huge engine and stamina. All in his neo-pro season. He looks like a rider who can potentially score well in pretty much any race on the calendar. And 2nd year pros are often good picks in these types of games. He rides for the best team in the peloton but due to his young age there's a good chance he will have a calendar where he'll be able to race with a lot of freedom rather than spend half a season working for Pogacar.
If there's a rider out there who can improve by some 1000 points out there, Morgado is as good pick as aynone IMO. Sometimes you have take risks if you want to win. I see little value in having a "safe" team and finishing 30th out of 90 players. If Morgado fails, I'll try again next year.
 
I'm top of the table!


If the table is the cost of your team last year: it identifies how much we rely (too much, as ever, for me) on picking up riders on the evidence of previous seasons as identifying potential for what they might do this year.

Top 10 and bottom ten:
1Armchair cyclist20842
2Boris9820485
3NorthAmericanScum19593
4Total Package18925
5Samu Cuenca18735
6PandaClaws18429
7MADRAZO18034
8Shakes17877
9ingsve16614
10del196216589
...
87Mushroom7854
88Nevs7831
89Tricycles7551
90JumboVismaFan7149
91RedheadDane6939
92LosBrolin6836
93Josedin6776
94DJW6117
95AlTarf_ua5955
96armchairclimber5600

A neat symmetry in my near namesake being at the other end of the table.
FWIW, the Collective Wisdom team (see above) would score 16809 on this basis, and be 9th in that table.
 
I get too annoyed by how poorly I'd do, and I greatly enjoy the discussion in this thread regardless of having a team or not.

I also don't much like the process of creating a team the times I have participated. If I can get in a mood where I'd enjoy that, then it wouldn't matter how my team performed.

I'm greatly thankful for all the participants in this game, as I get to enjoy standing on the sidelines thanks to them.
Good thing you still enjoy it, although (as I probably say each year :D ) it would have been interesting to see what kind of team you could have come up with.

Along similar lines as what you mention, I think the CQ game is the best and most fun context in which to discuss cycling. Discussing riders, teams and races within the constraints of the game is so much more interesting than discussing whether any new emerging talent can win the Tour, or that some wife is creating beef on Twitter, or that this superstar is better than this other superstar under equal conditions etc.
 
Luckily that doesn't matter! Names were taken from CQRanking at some point but all data is just based on unique identifiers. Website just takes those into consideration and names are just for show.
wish I could do that in the games I run by spreadsheets: keeping up with CQ name changes is the bane of the task.
 
MAGNIER Paul
AUGUST Andrew
EWAN Caleb
BEHRENS Niklas
UHLIG Henri
VAN DIJKE Mick
BRENNAN Matthew
RONDEL Mathys
LEONARD Michael Shea
MAISONOBE Sam
DE SCHUYTENEER Steffen
HERZOG Emil
LE HUITOUZE Eddy
TORRES ARIAS Pablo
SHMIDT Artem
WATSON Samuel
CASTRILLO ZAPATER Pablo
HAYTER Ethan
LECERF William Junior
PALENI Enzo
BAGIOLI Andrea
VAN EETVELT Lennert
UIJTDEBROEKS Cian
VAN BAARLE Dylan
VAN BELLE Loe
SHEFFIELD Magnus
NORDHAGEN Jørgen
ASGREEN Kasper
DE LIE Arnaud
SKERL Daniel
TJØTTA Martin
FERRARO Santiago
STENICO Mattia


Very young team, if Lotto doesn't have a good year...
 
One of the best riders of what though? I haven't really been able to put my finger on what type of rider he is. Is he a sprinter, or will he be a cobbled classics guy or just an attacking rider in general? He's not a climber by the looks of it so stage races and many classics are out of the question really.

That said I'm sure he will be a good enough pick. He can probably break 200 points easily. But is he this years Del Toro, breaking 800 points. I doubt it. Which is why I went for other riders instead.

I agree with the scepsis on Behrens, especially next year. despite his impressive finish in the U23 races last year.

For me he and his u23 world championship reminds me a lot of Eekhoff, that did a similar type of u23 worlds ride and is a similar type of rider, and that then havent really done much as a pro, despite still being a good solid rider, but without anything extraordinary like Behrens (even if he is proobably a bit better than Eekhoff) and not being super young either when he won as a true supertalent would have been.

And at the same time, with the also similar in type Van Dijke twins leaving Visma I kind of felt Behrens would get a role next year replacing them, and therefore mostly as a helper, especially in the sprinttrains for Brennan or Kooij, where Visma dont have too many other options now and where he would be very useful but not get any points.
 
Jan 10, 2021
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I'm top of the table!


If the table is the cost of your team last year: it identifies how much we rely (too much, as ever, for me) on picking up riders on the evidence of previous seasons as identifying potential for what they might do this year.

Top 10 and bottom ten:
1Armchair cyclist20842
2Boris9820485
3NorthAmericanScum19593
4Total Package18925
5Samu Cuenca18735
6PandaClaws18429
7MADRAZO18034
8Shakes17877
9ingsve16614
10del196216589
...
87Mushroom7854
88Nevs7831
89Tricycles7551
90JumboVismaFan7149
91RedheadDane6939
92LosBrolin6836
93Josedin6776
94DJW6117
95AlTarf_ua5955
96armchairclimber5600

A neat symmetry in my near namesake being at the other end of the table.
As expected for my team. I never dare to predict which talents will outperform their previous seasons and am more confident in selecting the ones that proved they can do it, but had a bad year.
 
For me he and his u23 world championship reminds me a lot of Eekhoff, that did a similar type of u23 worlds ride and is a similar type of rider, and that then havent really done much as a pro, despite still being a good solid rider, but without anything extraordinary like Behrens (even if he is proobably a bit better than Eekhoff) and not being super young either when he won as a true supertalent would have been.
After his U23 title Eekhoff went to 245 points in a year where he did less than 30 race days because of Covid... wouldn't mind Behrens replicating that moyenne.
 
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After his U23 title Eekhoff went to 245 points in a year where he did less than 30 race days because of Covid... wouldn't mind Behrens replicating that moyenne.

Good point, and for sure I think Behrens can also be a decent pick like Eekhoff was the next year, I just think that he is unlikely to do anything really good with his type and team role. But its not like I think he will be a very bad pick either, my expectation for him is just a bit mediocre.
 
Another MEGA post incoming, answering some stuff I found interesting!

PIGANZOLI Davide
It almost feels like you've stolen my girlfriend or something! :D

Piganzoli has been 'my' rare pick for two years now, but this time I didn't consider him in the slightest. Just decided he was way too expensive. Last year he basically reached what I saw as his Fortunato-esque ceiling (for now at least), but I guess you put more stock in his Emilia than I do.

Other than that, the differences between our teams are mostly as expected. Some differences in the expensive department, and a few more uninspiring Frenchies for you (I don't get the Gesbert hype). I did look at Hatherly when he was announced, but none of the big MTB names have made it in road cycling recently, so I didn't quite see what would be different about him.

My team with some comments:
As you've said earlier, we usually have quite similar teams, but not this time. I don't have any of your top 5 most expensive picks and you don't have my top 4. After he made himself expensive, Powless was out of the question for me. I think his 2023 was the outlier and his other years more of the norm. He won't get 300 points from French .1 races in February every year. Ganna is probably solid enough, but again I see 2023 as an outlier. Two GC wins and a 2nd in 2.PS races is quite the points haul, which won't happen every year. The other three I did consider, as I mentioned in my team breakdown.

HEALY Ben: The Irish powerhouse really didn’t get the point haul he deserved last year. Should easily get 1000 points during the season, although the “threat” of doing a Grand Tour bid worries me a bit. I think he will be a top10 consensus pick.
I like most of your team, but this one I disagree with. A bit like in my comment to MADRAZO above, I think 2023 won't be representative of a normal Healy year. I expect 2024 to be more the norm. I see him as a bit of a glorified Thomas De Gendt, and I don't think he can consistently expect so many top placings in big races as he got in 2023.

NYS Thibau
One of the first names on my team sheet. Was really impressed with him last year, and as with Van Aert, I can not see a way of him not getting a lot more points as long as he stays injury free. He will be a strong candidate for all the hilly spring classics, and he had no points from those last year. 1500 points seem realistic.
Quoting you here, but @Devil's Elbow has also preached the Nys gospel quite affectionately. I don't quite see it. Yes, he did look awesome at times, but he won't get another WT stage race where he just needs to outsprint Kelderman for three stages (don't at me! :D ). More seriously, I just can't trust a short season for someone that expensive. Not much room for failure.

And also something that people seem to be forgetting a little bit in many cases, not just in Nys' case potentially: Unless you are in the Pog or Vingegaard sphere, actually replicating the points you cost is not a complete gimme. It's easy to say this and that rider missed out on this and that, but they still need to recuperate their cost before they add on the profit. And I don't know if Nys will do the Tour of Hungary for 221 points, for example. Of course he will do other things then, but even a Fleche Wallonne win won't replace all of that (very close though).

When I looked at potential range of 2025 scores, I had WvA at 2200-2800, and I had Vinge at pretty much the same, but 500 points more cost. So WvA was locked in, but I had to take a hard look at Vinge cuz none of the others were slam dunks.

I ended up with Gregoire and Almeida, let's make the cases and then come back to the opportunity cost.
In my view, that's a VERY optimistic estimate for Van Aert, as I say a bit more about in my team post from earlier. But I'm loving that you're a fellow Almeida enthusiast! Especially since I think you've gone with an inferior strategy to complement him. :D

I'm a big Gregoire fan actually. Loved having him on my team in his neo year, and I looked long and hard at him for last year's game before deciding on Pidcock/Sheffield. Did skim through his page this year also, but he wasn't really on the cards with what other options were available this time.

An exercise I like is one I've seen a few people on here do (but especially thread-but-not-game-participant Netserk) where you break down a team difference to rider1 + rider2 vs rider3 + rider4. Almeida and Gregoire cost 62 points more than Vingegaard. Let's slot in a cheap popular rider I didn't pick in Bagioli (108). Will Vingegaard + Bagioli yield more expected points than my two? Well if I expect 2200-2800 from Vingegaard and 200-500 from Bagioli, median is 2850, high end 3300. Let's give Almeida 1000-1800 and Gregoire 900-1900, that'd be median 2800, high end 3700. So not much in it, but maybe more high end hope. I guess in the end the tiebreaker was to go with guys I was more excited about. This is a yearlong game and I wanna have fun.
Yes, I agree this is a fun exercise, and it's one I use a lot when making my team (as I think you do too). I do think you're kinda forgetting (or just chosing not to mention) an important detail in this particular one though. Or we just judge floors differently.

Before we get to that, I'd say Bagioli is almost irrelevant here. He's only really there as an added bonus possibility of someone scoring quite a lot on top of the Vingegaard contribution.

But the thing is; for Vingegaard to be inferior to Almeida/Gregoire you need to hit bullseye with your predictions for two riders instead of just one (and that one rider is much a much safer bet to boot), and you need two guys instead of one to have a relatively issue-free season. As I touched on when discussing Nys in this post, actually breaking even is not a total gimme for your non-Vingegaard riders, especially Gregoire in my view.

If I was to boil this comparison down in my way, I'd just say that I can be reasonably confident in Almeida and Gregoire reaching 1000 points each, and I can be reasonably confident in Vingegaard reaching 2000. And I trust myself more to get one bet right instead of a double bet. I do make these gambles quite a lot myself though (like not having Remco and Roglic for 2022 & 2023 respectively, but those also had other reasons than pure optimization). But in this case I just think Vingegaard is such a points guarantee in all sorts of stage races that his floor is vastly superior.

Santiago Buitrago, 619 points, picked by 2 teams
[...]The rider I was talking about earlier in the thread for those who were wondering.
I thought his decent 2022 kinda disqualified him based on your statement. So I didn't guess that it was Buitrago. The only one I found to fit what you said (the way I interepreted it) was Wærenskjold. Which would have been quite the gamble with the other options available. Buitrago I did at least briefly look at, though he wasn't really seriously considered. But I can see the appeal.

I strongly considered going with Almeida alongside Vingegaard and Van Aert, and actually I think that would have been the best thing to do. However, there were a few riders I really like and that I wanted on my team (my three most expensive riders besides Vingegaard and Van Aert), so I went for that solution instead.
I also tried to make space for a third expensive rider. Mainly had Pidcock in mind, as making space for Van Aert would have been even more difficult. But as with you, I had some other guys I also really wanted to include, those being Vine/Plapp/Penhöet/Magnier. In my brief experimentation with trying to accommodate a third big one, it was mostly Magner or Penhöet who got the hypothetical boot, along with Dunbar and Riccitello (although I did want to keep the American too after I had convinced myself he was actually good).

I feel like yours is a bit like the vanilla team of this year, which you probably won't be too pleased to hear, but it has the clean Vingegaard/Van Aert combination, with the rest of the team also being very good.

CHRISTEN Fabio: 387

Now this would be a left field pick. And a unique one. Definitely not the most obvious pick, but he impressed me a lot in 2024 and I think he could take another step in 2025. In the end there were too many good picks in the 400 points region for me to pick him, but I'm still curious how it would have turned out.
Can't say I considered him this year, but I absolutely did last year. And ended up regretting not having him as a super-rare pick. Now granted, my other cheap picks did pretty well, but he still would have been a very satisfactory under-the-radar pick. And maybe he would have replaced Rafferty, so that would have been an upgrade. I can see improvement happening this year, but not enough most likely.

So the day has come! Really looking forward for the season!

Two things have come to my mind, when I checked the popularity table.

1.) I am really surprised, that Vingegaard is in less than half of the teams!
2.) Matthew Dinham is the Amaury Capiot for me of last season. Damn, how could I have missed him.
You also have a nice-looking team again this year. Hope we can renew our battling in the top 10!

As I have said already, I share your Vingegaard surprise. As for Dinham being the new Capiot, keep in mind that Capiot didn't turn out to be such a must-have. I think we'll be fine (I willingly did not prioritize Dinham, although he was close).

no ne picked Oscar Sevilla?! That's a bit disappointing!
Oooh, I wanted to! But I just couldn't justify it. Would have been fun though, especially if I had won the game. Sevilla deserves to have been on the winning CQ team at least once in his long career.

Would be interesting to hear if anyone actually considered any of my five unique picks:
Steff Cras
Kim Heiduk
Pavel Novak
Michele Gazzoli
Iker Mintegi
I considered Gazzoli last year (didn't pick him), but he basically blew his one chance in my book by having such a bad season. Cras was the only one on my longlist this year. Could be a solid points forager in stage races, but likely nothing spectacular I think, and there was a lot of other more attractive options. Mintegi I've never even heard of. Hope he does well though. We need some Euskaltel glory.
 
I think in the Team Similarity of @Shakes there are still a few issues. In @skidmark spreadsheet, I have for example a higher popularity score than you...

@Shakes: Could you have a look at it?
I'm just catching up now and so several pages behind so this has probably been addressed, but just to repeat what I wrote on page 10, the spreadsheet popularity team scores have not been updated to current year yet - that will happen by this weekend. Shakes' site is the correct reference for 2025 as of now.
 
Nys was a foolish pick last January too, if I recall last year's thread
Nobody says he is foolish pick. I had a long thought about him, but his schedule scared me off. Ardennes classics don't scream like a lot of point to me and GT can be both good or completely wasted race days for him. I would've picked him if he was going to race more one-week stage races and classics, not a GT.

But i can clearly see him being good pick, dude has CQ game all over him.
 
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I thought his decent 2022 kinda disqualified him based on your statement. So I didn't guess that it was Buitrago. The only one I found to fit what you said (the way I interepreted it) was Wærenskjold. Which would have been quite the gamble with the other options available. Buitrago I did at least briefly look at, though he wasn't really seriously considered. But I can see the appeal.
Oh no, I said his 2023 score! See quoted post below.

He was thereabouts in a few stage-races in 2023. 3rd in LBL and following up with a good Giro was impressive. Very good performance in the Vuelta as well. 8th on the stage to Angliru. Ended the year with 770 points. To me that felt/looked like a rider that has potential to score +1000 in the future.

So he was on my radar going into 2024, but I didnt pick him then. The way he started last season was also... "damn, I should have picked him". Especially seeing the first stages of Paris-Nice... and then he crashed in a good position. Didnt even finish the race in the end.

He scored in races after that leading up to the Tour, without getting the big points. 5th in Fleche says something though.

Climbed well in both Dauphine and the Tour.

Didnt do much after that though and "only" ended up with 619 points. Below what I think his ability is as a rider and performances could dictate.

To me it feels like he has potential for more. Given his performances in tough one-day races and the stage-races + GTs he has performed well in. The way he is climbing. He finished 7th on the stage to Plateau de Beille last season.

We will see how it goes but an exciting pick nonetheless.

The rider I have picked as the more opportunistic one in this range has showed a very good level for two seasons in a row now, in some big races. I was already thinking about him last year and was really regretting not picking him around March. Then some things happened to him, but he showed up later only to be unlucky again or just not having any form towards the end of season. He was even available for a slight discount compared to his 2023 score, so I think he could make sense this year. A pick that I felt excited about, so I hope he could be a potential game changer. Looking forward to follow him this year. We will see how it goes.
 
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Oh no, I said his 2023 score! See quoted post below.
I meant the "very good level for two seasons in a row" part, where I thought his decent 2022 (in addition to 23-24) would make it three seasons in a row with a good level.

I absolutely see him as a possible 1000 point rider though. But even that wasn't quite enough for me this year with his price, the other options and how likely he is to suddenly have a significant step up in points.
 
My team with some comments:
As you've said earlier, we usually have quite similar teams, but not this time. I don't have any of your top 5 most expensive picks and you don't have my top 4. After he made himself expensive, Powless was out of the question for me. I think his 2023 was the outlier and his other years more of the norm. He won't get 300 points from French .1 races in February every year. Ganna is probably solid enough, but again I see 2023 as an outlier. Two GC wins and a 2nd in 2.PS races is quite the points haul, which won't happen every year. The other three I did consider, as I mentioned in my team breakdown.


Yes out teams defiently ended up quite different this year especially for the expensive picks, but I guess thats also the toughest ones and if I had not dumped Vingegaard the last days it would have been more similar I guess.

Anyways your team look very strong as usual

I had also noticed those Mou comments on Almeida for next year, that causes some extra fear now. I just also felt that him very likely riding 2 GTs as helper for Pogacar would be really bad for his chances, even though he was 4. in the Tour this year like that also, but with Visma back to full strenght next year he might actually have to do some work and lose his result. But still he was also in my considderations as expensive alternatives, as was Ayuso also (despite Mous hate for him :)) and Almeida will surely be a decent pick if he avoids bad luck

Also I like your gutsy picks with Vine, Plapp and Magnier. I agree they all have high ceilings, but the first 2 would be too big risks for me, with their crash-history, and Vines teamrole also that sets some limits. Magnier just never really fitted in my team, though he was very tempting, but I kind of regret not picking him now, as the potential is definetly huge. I suppose him and Seixas would have been a lot more interesting to have now than Riccitello and Carthy for instance.

I also like your Dunbar pick, he definetly has room for improvement if he avoids bad luck. I just felt in that pricerange that a guy like Demare was safer.

Sosa is a nice joker, but would fear for his raceprograme on the small team where Castrillos good score last season was a exeption from quite low scores normally, and his toplevel seems more and more rare so I cut him relatively quickly

Del Grosso and Kajamini was also a lot in my thoughts, Del Grosso until the end, while Kajamini sounded too modest in the interview I found, mostly talking about helping the captains, so I cut him despite him being quite a exiting talent with big potential.

De Schuyteneer was also quite tempting for me giving a little Lie vibes and getting a lot of hype, and had a good chance to get on the team if I had kept Vingegaard, but also very young and again the interviews regarding him did mostly just talk about getting experience and not so much about getting results and Lotto also has plenty of other sprinters I felt he would likely have to start behind in the hierachi

I also read that Bax quote on winning 100% of the races he had his chance in, and expecting 30 times more chances this year, and that also convinced me, glad to see we dont have to share him with too many as he could be quite good.

Vader and Staune-Mittet were both very close to my team also and amongst the last cuts

Bisiaux, I never really considdered much, being so young, and with so many other solid cheap picks alternatively in that pricerange, but he is definetly exiting also and a good pick.

Kamp I can understand also, but he is a bit of a odd caracter mentally and too me he has sounded a bit unmotivated a while and I think he will be pure helper with so many similar types on his new team, so he was never really close to my team, but he could surprise for sure if he is suddenly gets back to his best and motivated.

Regarding my own team and your comments there, Im surprised Powless is so rare and that you can rule him out so easy. For me he is in his absolute prime now, having learned his huge potential in all the 1-day races where he has turned in to a bit of a monster, and getting points in all sort of races, both spring and fall, and I expect that he will be just as good as 2023 if not better and with the potential from missing half the season this year only to find his bets form again. But still I do agree he is probably my weakest pick compared to the price. It was most the very optimistic interviews from Ganna and Penhoet that in the end made me skip Vingegaard.
 
Collective Wisdom team

The most popular 32 riders fit comfortably within the budget, to the extent that the most expensive of the riders on 22 teams can be included to round out the team.

Could I ask @skidmark to include that group in the spreadsheet (I usually put them at the bottom of the results page so that they don't interfere with the rankings.
Popularity Team is entered. In the past I've put them on the 'Rankings' but not 'Update' tabs so people could see how they would rank, but that's also caused confusion so perhaps I'll do as you do.
 

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