Another MEGA post incoming, answering some stuff I found interesting!
It almost feels like you've stolen my girlfriend or something!
Piganzoli has been 'my' rare pick for two years now, but this time I didn't consider him in the slightest. Just decided he was way too expensive. Last year he basically reached what I saw as his Fortunato-esque ceiling (for now at least), but I guess you put more stock in his Emilia than I do.
Other than that, the differences between our teams are mostly as expected. Some differences in the expensive department, and a few more uninspiring Frenchies for you (I don't get the Gesbert hype). I did look at Hatherly when he was announced, but none of the big MTB names have made it in road cycling recently, so I didn't quite see what would be different about him.
My team with some comments:
As you've said earlier, we usually have quite similar teams, but not this time. I don't have any of your top 5 most expensive picks and you don't have my top 4. After he made himself expensive, Powless was out of the question for me. I think his 2023 was the outlier and his other years more of the norm. He won't get 300 points from French .1 races in February every year. Ganna is probably solid enough, but again I see 2023 as an outlier. Two GC wins and a 2nd in 2.PS races is quite the points haul, which won't happen every year. The other three I did consider, as I mentioned in my team breakdown.
HEALY Ben: The Irish powerhouse really didn’t get the point haul he deserved last year. Should easily get 1000 points during the season, although the “threat” of doing a Grand Tour bid worries me a bit. I think he will be a top10 consensus pick.
I like most of your team, but this one I disagree with. A bit like in my comment to MADRAZO above, I think 2023 won't be representative of a normal Healy year. I expect 2024 to be more the norm. I see him as a bit of a glorified Thomas De Gendt, and I don't think he can consistently expect so many top placings in big races as he got in 2023.
NYS Thibau
One of the first names on my team sheet. Was really impressed with him last year, and as with Van Aert, I can not see a way of him not getting a lot more points as long as he stays injury free. He will be a strong candidate for all the hilly spring classics, and he had no points from those last year. 1500 points seem realistic.
Quoting you here, but
@Devil's Elbow has also preached the Nys gospel quite affectionately. I don't quite see it. Yes, he did look awesome at times, but he won't get another WT stage race where he just needs to outsprint Kelderman for three stages (don't at me!
). More seriously, I just can't trust a short season for someone that expensive. Not much room for failure.
And also something that people seem to be forgetting a little bit in many cases, not just in Nys' case potentially: Unless you are in the Pog or Vingegaard sphere, actually replicating the points you cost is not a complete gimme. It's easy to say this and that rider missed out on this and that, but they still need to recuperate their cost before they add on the profit. And I don't know if Nys will do the Tour of Hungary for 221 points, for example. Of course he will do other things then, but even a Fleche Wallonne win won't replace all of that (very close though).
When I looked at potential range of 2025 scores, I had WvA at 2200-2800, and I had Vinge at pretty much the same, but 500 points more cost. So WvA was locked in, but I had to take a hard look at Vinge cuz none of the others were slam dunks.
I ended up with Gregoire and Almeida, let's make the cases and then come back to the opportunity cost.
In my view, that's a VERY optimistic estimate for Van Aert, as I say a bit more about in my team post from earlier. But I'm loving that you're a fellow Almeida enthusiast! Especially since I think you've gone with an inferior strategy to complement him.
I'm a big Gregoire fan actually. Loved having him on my team in his neo year, and I looked long and hard at him for last year's game before deciding on Pidcock/Sheffield. Did skim through his page this year also, but he wasn't really on the cards with what other options were available this time.
An exercise I like is one I've seen a few people on here do (but especially thread-but-not-game-participant Netserk) where you break down a team difference to rider1 + rider2 vs rider3 + rider4. Almeida and Gregoire cost 62 points more than Vingegaard. Let's slot in a cheap popular rider I didn't pick in Bagioli (108). Will Vingegaard + Bagioli yield more expected points than my two? Well if I expect 2200-2800 from Vingegaard and 200-500 from Bagioli, median is 2850, high end 3300. Let's give Almeida 1000-1800 and Gregoire 900-1900, that'd be median 2800, high end 3700. So not much in it, but maybe more high end hope. I guess in the end the tiebreaker was to go with guys I was more excited about. This is a yearlong game and I wanna have fun.
Yes, I agree this is a fun exercise, and it's one I use a lot when making my team (as I think you do too). I do think you're kinda forgetting (or just chosing not to mention) an important detail in this particular one though. Or we just judge floors differently.
Before we get to that, I'd say Bagioli is almost irrelevant here. He's only really there as an added bonus possibility of someone scoring quite a lot on top of the Vingegaard contribution.
But the thing is; for Vingegaard to be inferior to Almeida/Gregoire you need to hit bullseye with your predictions for two riders instead of just one (and that one rider is much a much safer bet to boot), and you need two guys instead of one to have a relatively issue-free season. As I touched on when discussing Nys in this post, actually breaking even is not a total gimme for your non-Vingegaard riders, especially Gregoire in my view.
If I was to boil this comparison down in my way, I'd just say that I can be reasonably confident in Almeida and Gregoire reaching 1000 points each, and I can be reasonably confident in Vingegaard reaching 2000. And I trust myself more to get one bet right instead of a double bet. I do make these gambles quite a lot myself though (like not having Remco and Roglic for 2022 & 2023 respectively, but those also had other reasons than pure optimization). But in this case I just think Vingegaard is such a points guarantee in all sorts of stage races that his floor is vastly superior.
Santiago Buitrago, 619 points, picked by 2 teams
[...]The rider I was talking about earlier in the thread for those who were wondering.
I thought his decent 2022 kinda disqualified him based on your statement. So I didn't guess that it was Buitrago. The only one I found to fit what you said (the way I interepreted it) was Wærenskjold. Which would have been quite the gamble with the other options available. Buitrago I did at least briefly look at, though he wasn't really seriously considered. But I can see the appeal.
I strongly considered going with Almeida alongside Vingegaard and Van Aert, and actually I think that would have been the best thing to do. However, there were a few riders I really like and that I wanted on my team (my three most expensive riders besides Vingegaard and Van Aert), so I went for that solution instead.
I also tried to make space for a third expensive rider. Mainly had Pidcock in mind, as making space for Van Aert would have been even more difficult. But as with you, I had some other guys I also really wanted to include, those being Vine/Plapp/Penhöet/Magnier. In my brief experimentation with trying to accommodate a third big one, it was mostly Magner or Penhöet who got the hypothetical boot, along with Dunbar and Riccitello (although I did want to keep the American too after I had convinced myself he was actually good).
I feel like yours is a bit like the vanilla team of this year, which you probably won't be too pleased to hear, but it has the clean Vingegaard/Van Aert combination, with the rest of the team also being very good.
CHRISTEN Fabio: 387
Now this would be a left field pick. And a unique one. Definitely not the most obvious pick, but he impressed me a lot in 2024 and I think he could take another step in 2025. In the end there were too many good picks in the 400 points region for me to pick him, but I'm still curious how it would have turned out.
Can't say I considered him this year, but I absolutely did last year. And ended up regretting not having him as a super-rare pick. Now granted, my other cheap picks did pretty well, but he still would have been a very satisfactory under-the-radar pick. And maybe he would have replaced Rafferty, so that would have been an upgrade. I can see improvement happening this year, but not enough most likely.
So the day has come! Really looking forward for the season!
Two things have come to my mind, when I checked the popularity table.
1.) I am really surprised, that Vingegaard is in less than half of the teams!
2.) Matthew Dinham is the Amaury Capiot for me of last season. Damn, how could I have missed him.
You also have a nice-looking team again this year. Hope we can renew our battling in the top 10!
As I have said already, I share your Vingegaard surprise. As for Dinham being the new Capiot, keep in mind that Capiot didn't turn out to be such a must-have. I think we'll be fine (I willingly did not prioritize Dinham, although he was close).
no ne picked Oscar Sevilla?! That's a bit disappointing!
Oooh, I wanted to! But I just couldn't justify it. Would have been fun though, especially if I had won the game. Sevilla deserves to have been on the winning CQ team at least once in his long career.
Would be interesting to hear if anyone actually considered any of my five unique picks:
Steff Cras
Kim Heiduk
Pavel Novak
Michele Gazzoli
Iker Mintegi
I considered Gazzoli last year (didn't pick him), but he basically blew his one chance in my book by having such a bad season. Cras was the only one on my longlist this year. Could be a solid points forager in stage races, but likely nothing spectacular I think, and there was a lot of other more attractive options. Mintegi I've never even heard of. Hope he does well though. We need some Euskaltel glory.