The 6th Monument

[Parrulo]

You might want to correct that. The VOLTA A PORTUGAL isnt a grand tour yet. Theres still only 3.



Would you be saying that if the UCI was trying to decide between Australia and Belgium for the location of a 6th monument?

Im all for all for moving the sport out a bit. Not neccesarily China or Canada, races with no history, but to a race like SB with at least some history there.



Is it a coincidence that among the Dutch public its both the farthest removed from monument status and the farthest removed from the Dutch public?

i fixed it for you. you can thank me later.

 

[The Hitch]

i fixed it for you. you can thank me later.

Move your country to the equator so that we can watch it in november (off season) and ill be willing to consider.


Right now your little tour is stepping on our major PT Race (Tour of POLAND!!!!.)

You're not really challenging us though so i dont mind.

Its like a Rabo- Vacansolei relationship

 

[Parrulo]

if the uci was runned by smart people. the volta would be on the same category as the paris nice and the dauphine. your great TdP is just like the eneco tour and ToC, boring with no chalenging parcours nor chalenging weather. sorry but from the real cycling fan point of view. Volta > tour of poland

oh and even tho it has the most important teams. it has like the third tier guys so is not like the field is pro tour level and it really looks like the por tour teams don't really care about it.

 

[Willy_Voet]

No way Amstel gets on that list...ever. It's a glorified criterium:

 

[The Hitch]

Uour great TdP is just like the eneco tour and ToC, boring with no chalenging parcours nor chalenging weather.

OH OH OH !!!!!!

Lets not start saying things we cant take back.

I was only pulling your leg with the Volta comment

The TDP this year was far from "unchallenging". As for the weather, we had a sprint in a tropical storm, and one stage was so brutal that Grega Bole (i think it was him) fell over while crossing the finishing line.

It may have a 2nd tier lineup, but as cycling fans, this isnt really that important to us.
Great racing > great team sheats, especially when its a pt race and some of the 2nd tier riders get a chance to shine.

This is actually the first time ive had to defend the TDP because up to now, fellow forumites have done it for me before i could respond, it was that well liked.

And of course the great cosmo catalano has spoken - http://cyclocosm.com/2010/08/old-style-racing-2/ He said it was old style racing.

No way Amstel gets on that list...ever. It's a glorified criterium:

Tbf, its hard to fit a cycling race into Holland unless its a criterium

 

[Dettol]

Shouldn't it be 7 to keep with the classical paradigm?

 

[auscyclefan94]

No way Amstel gets on that list...ever. It's a glorified criterium:

*Willy_Voet to be abducted by the dutch mafia in 3...2...1*

You might want to correct that. The Vuelta a Colombia isnt a grand tour yet. Theres still only 3.



Would you be saying that if the UCI was trying to decide between Australia and Belgium for the location of a 6th monument?
Im all for all for moving the sport out a bit. Not neccesarily China or Canada, races with no history, but to a race like SB with at least some history there.

Is it a coincidence that among the Dutch public its both the farthest removed from monument status and the farthest removed from the Dutch public?

Unless their is a remedy for jetlag and planes become way faster then I there will never be a monuement in Australia so the UCI would never consider that. Though I think the grafton to inverell would be a good one day race for top pros to compete in.

 

[Jancouver]

I would keep 5 but I hope that Prague - Karlovy Vary (Carlsbad) - Prague will grow into a bigger race. I believe Danilo Hondo won it last year.

The Prague – Karlovy Vary – Prague race belongs to the oldest and longest classic races in today’s road cycling. The Czech cycling enthusiasts K. Tocl, F. Subrt, J. Parrus, Vala a Nerad following French and Italian cycling classics started this tradition in 1921. The length of 263 km long course became a measure of competitiveness of the riders at the time and also a way to promote Czechoslovakian cycling at the international level ...

 

[Ferminal]

I just noticed that we weren't considering Cyclassics?

 

[luckyboy]

You mean the 15-year old race in Hamburg?


I don't think there should be any more monuments at all. Flèche Wallonne is probably the closest, though I think Paris-Bruxelles or Paris-Tours should get it over FW. Too many Ardennes monuments otherwise.

Maybe if Montepaschi Strade Bianche was 50 years older.

 

[bicycles_rule]

hello...the amstel gold race may be a glorified criterium, but it's still the best classic there is. there is always suspense, nobody knows who is going to win, etc.
No, it shouldn't be the fifth monument.
I believe all monuments should be in early spring. so cut lombardy of the list. it's the lantern rouge of the cycling season anyways.
while we're at it, cut san remo of the list, because it's a sprint and therefore boring. Now the italians will get angry, so we will have to cut more races in order to keep the peace. so that will mean the tour of flanders and LBL will have to go, too.
which is fine with me, because in flanders it's a few guys in front of a large group, which is not spectacular. the race is not tough enough. LBL is a good race, but the race lost it's shine when all these dopers started to win it.

and then we will have only one classic with special status: roubaix. And I believe this one really deserves that status. behind roubaix, most other races should be the same level, to allow globalisation. races like the japan cup and that mexican criterium should get similar prestige.
france will be the cycling centre of the world. which is fine, because french riders won't win anyways.
oh yeah, I propose we cut the giro and vuelta down a few notches too. perhaps two weeks for each? just to make clear that there is only one tour.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

The 5 monuments of MSR, ToFlanders, PRoubaix, LBL, ToLombardy... legendary. I'd keep the monuments as-is. I like the fact they cover start of season to the end. But if one was added, F-W seems to be the popular vote, and I'd have to agree.

 

[auscyclefan94]

You mean the 15-year old race in Hamburg?


I don't think there should be any more monuments at all. Flèche Wallonne is probably the closest, though I think Paris-Bruxelles or Paris-Tours should get it over FW. Too many Ardennes monuments otherwise.

Maybe if Montepaschi Strade Bianche was 50 years older.

2 monuments are from the cobbled classics. Yes Rvv is a hilly cobbled race but i think that the ardennes should have two if the cobbled races have two.

 

[Parrulo]

OH OH OH !!!!!!

Lets not start saying things we cant take back.

I was only pulling your leg with the Volta comment

The TDP this year was far from "unchallenging". As for the weather, we had a sprint in a tropical storm, and one stage was so brutal that Grega Bole (i think it was him) fell over while crossing the finishing line.

It may have a 2nd tier lineup, but as cycling fans, this isnt really that important to us.
Great racing > great team sheats, especially when its a pt race and some of the 2nd tier riders get a chance to shine.

This is actually the first time ive had to defend the TDP because up to now, fellow forumites have done it for me before i could respond, it was that well liked.

And of course the great cosmo catalano has spoken - http://cyclocosm.com/2010/08/old-style-racing-2/ He said it was old style racing.


Tbf, its hard to fit a cycling race into Holland unless its a criterium

pfff you should have raged at me so then i would rage at you and we would rage at eachother and have a laugh in the end(all this to spend time and no actual discussion if you know what i mean) buzz killer <_<

hello...the amstel gold race may be a glorified criterium, but it's still the best classic there is. there is always suspense, nobody knows who is going to win, etc.
No, it shouldn't be the fifth monument.
I believe all monuments should be in early spring. so cut lombardy of the list. it's the lantern rouge of the cycling season anyways.
while we're at it, cut san remo of the list, because it's a sprint and therefore boring. Now the italians will get angry, so we will have to cut more races in order to keep the peace. so that will mean the tour of flanders and LBL will have to go, too.
which is fine with me, because in flanders it's a few guys in front of a large group, which is not spectacular. the race is not tough enough. LBL is a good race, but the race lost it's shine when all these dopers started to win it.

and then we will have only one classic with special status: roubaix. And I believe this one really deserves that status. behind roubaix, most other races should be the same level, to allow globalisation. races like the japan cup and that mexican criterium should get similar prestige.
france will be the cycling centre of the world. which is fine, because french riders won't win anyways.
oh yeah, I propose we cut the giro and vuelta down a few notches too. perhaps two weeks for each? just to make clear that there is only one tour.

best post eva

2 monuments are from the cobbled classics. Yes Rvv is a hilly cobbled race but i think that the ardennes should have two if the cobbled races have two.

1 sprinter monument(MSR), 2 cobbles(RVV and PR) and 2 hilly(LBL and GdL) i don't get what you mean by the ardennes having 2 monuments cus there are 2 cobbles monuments. the balance already sounds perfect

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Melbourne to Warnambool?

 

[Kwibus]

Tbf, its hard to fit a cycling race into Holland unless its a criterium

In every post you try to provoke the dutch maffia. It's too obvious
Your text should be "It's hard to fit in a interesting cycling race into Holland"
That would be true since the only place we got hills is in the province Limburg and that's where the AGR is.

Allthough it would be nice to have a race in the province Zeeland crossing the sea several times in March during a storm!

It's true though that AGR could never become an monument.

 

[Runitout]

I was recently talked about this with someone much older and wiser than me. He echoed a comment I've read earlier in this thread. He stated that until recently (1980s?) there were no monuments - only the Classics. Still, it was hard to make the grade as a Classic - la Fleche and Gent-Wevelgem were only considered 'semi-Classics'.

That being so, it is hard to see la Fleche being a Monument.

However, certain races simply have more prestige, whatever the position they might 'officially' hold. Does the winner of Amstel Gold or la Fleche Wallone have less prestige than the winner of M-SR? Probably, but its not such a stretch. Certainly they are closer in merit then M-SR is to Roubaix, imho.

As to the poll - Montepaschi -some time well into the future.

 

[Barrus]

Do people here really see Fleche and AGR as classics? In my mind they are semi-classics

 

[theyoungest]

You mean the 15-year old race in Hamburg?


I don't think there should be any more monuments at all. Flèche Wallonne is probably the closest, though I think Paris-Bruxelles or Paris-Tours should get it over FW. Too many Ardennes monuments otherwise.

Maybe if Montepaschi Strade Bianche was 50 years older.

Paris-Brussels? Who even watches that race?

 

[The Sheep]

In every post you try to provoke the dutch maffia. It's too obvious
Your text should be "It's hard to fit in a interesting cycling race into Holland"
That would be true since the only place we got hills is in the province Limburg and that's where the AGR is.

Allthough it would be nice to have a race in the province Zeeland crossing the sea several times in March during a storm!

It's true though that AGR could never become an monument.

I heard there were plans to do that? Going from Rotterdam to Antwerp or the other way around.

 

[profff]

fleche and amstel have a very good field of competitors and a good palmares.
they are semi-classics, as ghent is. probably amstel is the closest to the monuments, in terms of interest, field of competitors, attendance etc etc.
strade bianche is a very interesting race, very nice to see, run in one of the most popular cycling region of italy and in a very beautiful one , too.
if the sponsor bank will keep on putting money in it, in next years it could gain importance and dignity in the race calendar and may be become a semi-classic.

monument are and will stay five, as gt are and will stay three.
hystory and tradition is part of cycling and time is needed to build history and tradition.

dauphinee', paris nice , tirreno and especially tour of suisse are way ahead of california in terms of hystory and tradition .
they have their dignity and a definitive place in calendar and palmares. but they cannot be compared to a GT.

imho tour of california has to fill a gap to compare to this races.
probably for an american fanboy california is one of the most important races of the year, but inthe eyes of european pro racer and fans things look different

 

[Matthijs]

No way Amstel gets on that list...ever. It's a glorified criterium:

A much glorified criterium with 2,5 laps on a average of 100k every lap. Or 3 different laps so you will. 1/3 or so of the parcours they ride twice, some parts of that in different directions (= differint climes, different tactics).
I know people say it takes 1 or 2 or even more years to know enough of the parcours to win. Which is a contradiction with crit-race, where you get to know the parcour well enough troughout the race.

Paris-Brussels? Who even watches that race?

I do live on sporza every year... but to be honest, the vuelta right after is more interesting.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

No way Amstel gets on that list...ever. It's a glorified criterium:

Dude, Belgium has a Kermiskoers called 'De Ronde' as 'monument'. A criterium wouldn't be half as bad

 

[Matthijs]

I was recently talked about this with someone much older and wiser than me. He echoed a comment I've read earlier in this thread. He stated that until recently (1980s?) there were no monuments - only the Classics. Still, it was hard to make the grade as a Classic - la Fleche and Gent-Wevelgem were only considered 'semi-Classics'.

That being so, it is hard to see la Fleche being a Monument.

However, certain races simply have more prestige, whatever the position they might 'officially' hold. Does the winner of Amstel Gold or la Fleche Wallone have less prestige than the winner of M-SR? Probably, but its not such a stretch. Certainly they are closer in merit then M-SR is to Roubaix, imho.

As to the poll - Montepaschi -some time well into the future.

I just wonder. Isn't it that the Classics are promoted to monuments and the semi-classics to classic?

 

[L'arriviste]

I voted Strade Bianchi because:

- It has a sense of the unpredictable operatic spectacle
- It seems to have a fairly secure spot on the calendar
- It's exceptionally beautiful to watch
- It occupies a space outside of sponsorships and fads
- It provokes gutsy individual performances and, mostly importantly I think,
- It's genuinely distinct from other monuments

The only thing it lacks at the moment, in my opinion, is a sort of historical narrative of its own, as a careermaker perhaps, or the adoption of some joust between familiar dramatis personae. And those will come with time.