The Article: WSJ - reopened!

[M Sport]

When Frankie used epo, I don't believe it was illegal. Unethical, absolutely.

Wrong. I think you're confusing the ability to test for EPO with legality. It was illegal long before a test was approved.

 

[Anonymous]

Wrong. I think you're confusing the ability to test for EPO with legality. It was illegal long before a test was approved.

I think you are confusing "illegal" with a violation of sporting rules.

 

[Publicus]

I've come to realise that CN has very few writers. Not once has CN produced an original piece on this whole issue. In general there is a major lack of independent work. It took the TdF for them to have a "feature" on Contador.

And that feature wasn't the result of their own interview. It's cobbled together from older interviews with other news organizations.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I think you are confusing "illegal" with a violation of sporting rules.

Technically it is illegal both to take and to provide prescription drugs without a proper prescription (proper evidently means that none of us could read it unless we had been to medical school). However who among us has not ever gotten a round of antibiotics from our neighbor the nurse rather than wait the week that it takes to get in to see a doctor. There is illegal and then there is Illegal.

 

[issoisso]

Hi Elizabeth,

Since you're here, and since, unlike the most of the posters here, you actually have first-hand knowledge of what goes on in the world of pro cycling, I'd like to ask you a question:

Why on earth does Taylor Phinney ride for RadioShack? His dad has to know the truth about Armstrong and Bruyneel--there's no way Davis can in any way pretend that his son isn't riding for the king of the dopers. If my son was super talented and Armstrong and Co. wanted to hire him, I'd say hell no, and obviously I don't know one tenth of what DP knows. What's going on here?

Seriously? You're shocked that Davis "Delgado is a great champion and I'm sad he may lose the Tour just because he tested positive" Phinney doesn't have a problem with that?

 

[workingclasshero]

Taylor tends to block everyone lance blocks. I think lance feeds back to him daily. He is grooming him to be a clone.

[...]
and pretty much anyone that follows me. Ive got freinds of mine who have never even mentioned lance who have been blocked. It seems if you follow any two of myself, festinagirl, maserati, or joepapp and you get blocked.

i've got three out of you's and used to follow joe papp too but he posted too much and my page was littered with his musings! still drop by his page now and then mind, some interesting stuff to pick up from there.

oh and i don't think following CFA is very popular in the radioshack twitter camp either

dr maserati being blocked by lance without ever approaching him on twitter is incredible, does he surf around visiting people's pages? or read this forum? one out of two imo

 

[Hawkwood]

Was this before, after, or while he was a TV announcer? What were the demands of his Telegraph position? Calling the races? Reporting on cycling news? Conducting interviews?
What was his background prior to that position? Was it in biking? Or in writing?
In other words, what were the qualities that led the Telegraph to hire him?

From memory he took over from David Saunders when the latter died in the 1970s. Liggett was quite a good racer and got a domestic pro contract for a short time in the 1960s. he then got involved with the Milk Race, plus understudied Saunders, before taking over from him as main cycling correspondent for the Telegraph. Many of the UK papers barely covered cycling at all, and the Telegraph's coverage was pretty meagre compared with what we get today. I assume Liggett was having to do some dodging and weaving in order to make a living then. Liggett and Sherwin are both from the same neck of the woods, having grown up about 10 miles (in a straight line) from each other.

 

[M Sport]

I think you are confusing "illegal" with a violation of sporting rules.

Ah, no I'm not. It was and still is illegal to use EPO in France and some other European countries in a performance enhancing capacity i.e. no prescription.

 

[progressor]

Well, there we have it. I agree with Progressor's post and you don't. The forum is now at peace.

As far as Goober's comments, they did not enter into my thinking.



Sorry - barely following you here - reference to one side? Need more explanation regarding this bit. As far as Progressor's comments "mentally ill, deficient or a troll", there tends to be some odd logic on this forum by some posters. Some posters appear to have a belief that if they post something that is not particularly kind about LA, and someone else disagrees with their post on solid grounds, that post responder MUST be a LA fanboy (and maybe even has a man crush!!), even though the poster has not then or never has been an advocate for LA. With that last bit, I appear to be putting words into Progressor's mouth; I aplogise in advance.



Goober has been sucked into one of the endless spats that go on here every day. Based on some recent posts by moderators, this endless loop of personal attacks may be nipped in the bud.

As far as Progressor's comments, he did not single out any individual poster, so that may not be considered flaming in the usual sense, but could possibly considered a "group flaming", which I (obviously) believe is a healthy thing for any community.

Thanks for your response.

Joe

good post - not so sure about the group flaming bit

 

[alberto.legstrong]

Wake me up when this thread actually gets interesting again...

+1. Looks as if it is still getting revved up, over what I don't know. That rumored article had better be something, if it ever appears!

(Sorry about the dust-up over journos. How 'bout I come up with 10 names this weekend - if I have the time? If you have made it to adulthood and can't see how access to celebrity compromises objectivity, I am not sure if I can be much help to you, though!)

 

[alberto.legstrong]

From memory he took over from David Saunders when the latter died in the 1970s. Liggett was quite a good racer and got a domestic pro contract for a short time in the 1960s. he then got involved with the Milk Race, plus understudied Saunders, before taking over from him as main cycling correspondent for the Telegraph. Many of the UK papers barely covered cycling at all, and the Telegraph's coverage was pretty meagre compared with what we get today. I assume Liggett was having to do some dodging and weaving in order to make a living then. Liggett and Sherwin are both from the same neck of the woods, having grown up about 10 miles (in a straight line) from each other.

[Channeling Rod Serling's voice]
Hawkwood, you just past a signpost that you were going to fast to read. You have just entered, The Circular Zone, where you will be peppered with questions and discredited on any minutiae you get wrong. A world where logic and the overall point becomes malleable, space and time is distorted and the obvious comes into question....

 

[elizab]

regarding the Phinneys - I have no idea. Never met anyone in that family.
Why parents turn a blind eye to the obvious because their child benefits from it is beyond me.
Maybe I'm the too protective mamma bear but it helps that I'm 300 pounds.

Regarding journalists - last year when the Guardian and I came to a settlement in my favor, I was interviewed by a journalist who wrote a piece on it. His editor shelved the story. When I asked the editor why it was shelved he told me Lance had contacted him and said such disparaging things about me that the decision was made to shelve it. Lance couldn't bear to have me receive favorable press no matter how small or (in)significant. The editor didn't want the headache of dealing with lance.
Also at ToC and Vegas (where Greg showed up 1 1/2 years ago) there were journalists who put their hands up to ask significant and relevent questions but were not chosen on.
Anyone know when epo was officially on the banned list by the uci?

 

[pnwrider]

Betsy--I believe EPO was added to the banned list in 91 or 92. It was fairly early after introduction

 

[Hawkwood]

[Channeling Rod Serling's voice]
Hawkwood, you just past a signpost that you were going to fast to read. You have just entered, The Circular Zone, where you will be peppered with questions and discredited on any minutiae you get wrong. A world where logic and the overall point becomes malleable, space and time is distorted and the obvious comes into question....

LOL...I'm too old/slow for this, the senility must be kicking in!

 

[kurtinsc]

Betsy--I believe EPO was added to the banned list in 91 or 92. It was fairly early after introduction

While I don't know if the date is right, I do recall hearing it was banned for a long while before it could be tested for.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

LOL...I'm too old/slow for this, the senility must be kicking in!

 

[Hawkwood]

And I thought it was the `Twiglet Zone'!

 

[filipo]

(Sorry about the dust-up over journos. How 'bout I come up with 10 names this weekend - if I have the time? If you have made it to adulthood and can't see how access to celebrity compromises objectivity, I am not sure if I can be much help to you, though!)

If it's such a prevalent occurrence, it shouldn't take a whole weekend to come up with 10 names -- or a hundred names, even. You said "most journalists". So pick up a paper and pick out a name -- should be pretty easy.

 

[eleven]

Hi Elizabeth,

Since you're here, and since, unlike the most of the posters here, you actually have first-hand knowledge of what goes on in the world of pro cycling, I'd like to ask you a question:

Why on earth does Taylor Phinney ride for RadioShack? His dad has to know the truth about Armstrong and Bruyneel--there's no way Davis can in any way pretend that his son isn't riding for the king of the dopers. If my son was super talented and Armstrong and Co. wanted to hire him, I'd say hell no, and obviously I don't know one tenth of what DP knows. What's going on here?

Which clean team would you suggest Taylor ride for?

 

[frenchfry]

A good way to know who might have confirmed Floyd's information is to keep an eye on Eki. When he launches a greenie at a rider from the Shack team car we have our man!

 

[Kennf1]

Which clean team would you suggest Taylor ride for?

Garmin, which is where he started (Slipstream). Not gonna argue that all their riders are clean, but I think Vaughters is a much safer mentor than Bruyneel.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

.........

Hi Agapius - welcome to the forum -Nostradamus was the latest username of a poster who has been banned over 50 times - its not suprising Betsy did not take their question seriously because at one point that user thought that Betsy should have commited perjury for Lance...

So is perjury serious or not BPC?

 

[perico]

Hi Agapius - welcome to the forum -Nostradamus was the latest username of a poster who has been banned over 50 times - its not suprising Betsy did not take their question seriously because at one point that user thought that Betsy should have commited perjury for Lance...

So is perjury serious or not BPC?

What happened to that Agapius' question? I was interested in reading the responses. It something that didn't make any sense to me. Was it not appropriate or why did it disappear? (what exactly did Frankie know and why didn't this come up in the trial?)

 

[Race Radio]

What happened to that Agapius' question?

It was just another attempt by the herpes of the message board to derail the forum. After he has been banned over 50 times you would think the guy would get the hint.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

What happened to that Agapius' question? I was interested in reading the responses. It something that didn't make any sense to me. Was it not appropriate or why did it disappear? (what exactly did Frankie know and why didn't this come up in the trial?)

The question was removed as it was from the latest BPC/Arbiters 50+ username - Betsy answered that before and the 'Arbiters' conclusion was that Betsy should have commited perjury to protect Lance