The best 10 riders in the world

[Flamin]

You don't think "Or does anyone really believe Cancellara would have won 'only' 6 monuments in, say, the 70's?" would correspond with "Or does anyone really believe Contador would have won 'only' 7 GTs in, say, the 70's?"

Nope. I meant that Canc would have been competitive in Liege and Lombardia as well.

Edit: and a race like Flanders 2011 would have been a certain victory back then too

 

[Echoes]

You mean when 8 Belgians finishing top-10 was the benchmark?

And yet the best racers from around the globe were there and mixed it up with the best Belgians.

The likes of Cochise, Sefton, Szurkowski, etc.

 

[kanari]

If 2013 Cancellara went on a time machine and competed in the seventies with seventies equipment would he have dominated the classics? I think so. In pretty much all sports the level of the athletes is way higher than in the seventies. Why would cycling be different?

 

[barmaher]

But that is too simplistic.

If Contador/Boonen/Sagan were born in 1945, they would (probably) have trained like the top riders of the 70s, they would have eaten like them, doped like them, lived like them.

Similar for Merckx the opposite way. The time machine would have brought him over here in not great shape by modern standards, with his training having been sub-optimal for his life. He would most likely struggle, even though he is probably the most gifted cyclist of all time.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

The real question is: If Cancellara was born in 1945, and used the training methods etc of those times, would he have dominated the classics.

The real answer is: WHAT A STUPID QUESTION

 

[Echoes]

1970 Paris-Roubaix: pouring rain, bad cobbles, 266km, heavy bikes (unadapted to riding on cobbles)

Merckx wins at an average speed of 41.644km/h

2010 Paris-Roubaix: cloudy but dry conditions, improved cobbles, light bikes (perfectly adapted to riding on cobbles), 259km (I don't have my Paris-Roubaix with me at the moment but I'm sure the cobble distance is lesser than in 1970)

Cancellara wins at an average speed of 39,325 km/h (supposed to be Cancellara's finest performance).

It says a lot, I guess. Yet I still think Cancellara is the best present-day rider.


Besides, training methods in the 70's were really Advanced. They all trained on intervals, went to a gym, on a diet, etc. Stop romanticizing the past, please !

 

[jens_attacks]

The real question is: If Cancellara was born in 1945, and used the training methods etc of those times, would he have dominated the classics.

The real answer is: WHAT A STUPID QUESTION

cancellara-van steenbergen

another fight of the clones, around year 2135

rik wins imo

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Stupid, because it's useless, I mean.

 

[The Hitch]

I mean Kelly, Bettini and Boonen would all imho rank equal or higher than him in an all-time ranking, and that's just some of the more 'recent' classics riders.

You lost me at "Boonen."

Actually, Bettini neither.

lol. you sound like typical over defensive woman.

What was it about his post that made him sound like an over defensive woman rather than an over defensive man?

 

[The Hitch]

lol. you sound like typical over defensive woman.

What was it about his post that made him sound like an over defensive woman rather than an over defensive man?

 

[The Hitch]

Statistics and number of races won don't lie. You can argue that a race result doesn't always tell how strong riders are/were, but how are you gonna compare different generations other than that?

I would agree with you that Cancellara isn't as good as the riders you named, but reading Flaming's post i think he refers to absolute level of performance he smashes out rather than performance relative to others. Though such a ranking would of course be skewed towards present day riders (and ones from the 90's) with Froome and Contador 09 also ranking high.

If you take a look at PCS's special all times, there are at least 10 people in front of Fabian. The points system is based on race results and its trustworthy, from eras with worse equipment.

There is video footage and also people who watched some of them ride.

It is always difficult to make a list of the best mixing GC with Classics type of riders though.

This is the best top 10 list I have come accross

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBdypZ3ImHs

Or at least it was. It had the most awessome soundtrack ( Fuasto ciao for Fausto, some badass **** for Hinault, Kelly and Merckx,).

But someone has got the music taken down cos it violates coppyright. WTF. It makes no sense. You hear a song on a highlights video like that you are MORE likely to go search for it elsewhere. Destroys the fun for everyone for no reasons

 

[The Hitch]

If you take a look at PCS's special all times, there are at least 10 people in front of Fabian. The points system is based on race results and its trustworthy, from eras with worse equipment.

There is video footage and also people who watched some of them ride.

It is always difficult to make a list of the best mixing GC with Classics type of riders though.

This is the best top 10 list I have come accross

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBdypZ3ImHs

Or at least it was. It had the most awessome soundtrack ( Fuasto ciao for Fausto, some badass **** for Hinault, Kelly and Merckx,).

But someone has got the music taken down cos it violates coppyright. WTF. It makes no sense. You hear a song on a highlights video like that you are MORE likely to go search for it elsewhere. Destroys the fun for everyone for no reasons

 

[The Hitch]

And yet the best racers from around the globe were there and mixed it up with the best Belgians.

The likes of Cochise, Sefton, Szurkowski, etc.

Who?

 

[42x16ss]

You lost me at "Boonen."

Actually, Bettini neither.

Normally I agree with most of what you post but I have two questions for you:

1. Which rider has more P-R wins than Boonen?

2. Which rider has more RVV wins than Boonen?

 

[42x16ss]

And yet the best racers from around the globe were there and mixed it up with the best Belgians.

The likes of Cochise, Sefton, Szurkowski, etc.

They were all handy riders but not really at the level of their Euro contemporaries, especially the Belgians in their own turf.

 

[The Hitch]

Normally I agree with most of what you post but I have two questions for you:

1. Which rider has more P-R wins than Boonen?

2. Which rider has more RVV wins than Boonen?

I normally agree with most of what you say but for me and I think most of the forum - http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=19502 Cancellara's ability to perform over a wider variety of races wins it for him.

 

[barmaher]

I believe we are destined to never have the Cancellara - Boonen question resolved.

Hopefully neither of them get injured again this year. Still, supporters of the vanquished will have excuses for their man.

 

[Roderick]

I believe we are destined to never have the Cancellara - Boonen question resolved.

Hopefully neither of them get injured again this year. Still, supporters of the vanquished will have excuses for their man.

I think for a lot of people Cance looks stronger and is the "better" rider, but on the other hand, you can't go past Tommeke's numbers: 3X RvV, 4X P-R, 3X G-W, 5X E3.

So it all depends on how to define "best".

 

[Echoes]

They were all handy riders but not really at the level of their Euro contemporaries, especially the Belgians in their own turf.

Just ask riders from the seventies about Cochise Rodriguez, Knut Knudsen or Ole Ritter.

They would tell you that these were very hard riders with phenomenal physical strengths. Much stronger than most Belgians of that time.

Besides, they were the best from their countries either, by a country mile.

 

[Escarabajo]

I normally agree with most of what you say but for me and I think most of the forum - http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=19502 Cancellara's ability to perform over a wider variety of races wins it for him.

+1.

Cance has my vote.

 

[Escarabajo]

Who?

Cochise!!

 

[Parrulo]

I normally agree with most of what you say but for me and I think most of the forum - http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=19502 Cancellara's ability to perform over a wider variety of races wins it for him.

Winning a TdS perfectly suited to him because he is the home rider doesn't make him a stage racer and he never won bunch sprints nor the worlds nor any of the hilly classics. So what exactly is his wider variety of races?

Also one road race worlds is bigger than any amount of time trial worlds.

 

[Echoes]

These two pictures precisely shows only one variety of races: flat ones ending in a bunch sprints. Races for lesser riders...

Cancellara won a hilly classics, hilly or mountain stage races and ITT's.

Besides ITT's are physically much more demanding than a World Championship in line on the ridiculous route of Madrid.

Hope this helps.

 

[Roderick]

Which hilly classic did Cance win?

Besides, Tommeke won the Belgian championship in Aywaille which was literally taylormade for Phil Gil

 

[Netserk]

These two pictures precisely shows only one variety of races: flat ones ending in a bunch sprints. Races for lesser riders...

Cancellara won a hilly classics, hilly or mountain stage races and ITT's.

Besides ITT's are physically much more demanding than a World Championship in line on the ridiculous route of Madrid.

Hope this helps.

Yeah, Boonen never wins solo.