The best ever Northern Classics season?

[Bavarianrider]

haha are you joking?

the field and the competition in the ardennes is about 100x higher than the northern classics. So it's incredibly much harder to pull of the ardennes tripple...

Northern Classics 2 monuments
Ardennes: One Monument, and two 200km nothing happens uphill sprint races.

 

[Lanark]

As opposed to the stellar field, Gilbert faced last year : Evans injured, Valverde suspended, Contador absent, Vinokourov nowhere to be seen, Kolobnev MIA...
At least Boonen's rivals started most of the races that Boonen won (Cancellara couldn't beat Boonen at neither GW or GP E3 and Pozzato fell short at GW, GP E3 and RVV), whether or not they finish at the end of the day he still beat them.

Yes, it was still a steller field. Evans has won one semi-classic in his life, Contador none, neither has Kolobnev. Those guys don't have the same impact as a Cancellara missing.

Besides that, the Ardennes have a much tougher field, Gilbert still had to face the likes of the Schleck's, Sanchez, Rodriguez, Nibali, Cunego, Anton, Kreuziger etc.

 

[luckyboy]

Van Looy is the only one who has come near what Boonen has done. So this has been the best cobbled classics season by any single rider.

Not that bothered about the Ardennes. They've turned very boring in recent years.

 

[Flamin]

Cancellara 2010 >>> both Gilbert 2011 and Boonen 2012

There was never any doubt who was going to win Amstel.

Generally agree with you, except that a mighty strong Vanendert definitely had a big part in Phil's Amstel victory. And I'm actually still convinced that Cancellara would have won if not for his crash.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Northern Classics 2 monuments
Ardennes: One Monument, and two 200km nothing happens uphill sprint races.

AGR is 265km not 200 and has 30 hills

The field, which is what matters most (riders make hte race) consists of much more riders closer together than in the cobbled season
Thus..much harder to win.

You don't get it. And you never will. This shows in nearly all your posts

 

[The Hitch]

EDIT: and all the canc talk, well Valverde wasn't there last year

Yeah and i said that

 

[Bavarianrider]

AGR is 265km not 200 and has 30 hills

The field, which is what matters most (riders make hte race) consists of much more riders closer together than in the cobbled season
Thus..much harder to win.

You don't get it. And you never will. This shows in nearly all your posts

Roubaix and Flandern are two of the mst prestigouse racec. Fleche and ****ing Amstel are not in that Category.
The reason that there are fewer favourites is due to the fact that it is so difficult to do well there. It's not the fault of the amsters that the rest sucks,
And your competition argument is lame. Just because there are many riders closer together is not a sign of quality at all.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

in northern classics riders like turgot, tjallingii etc can podium out of nowhere. A lot of average riders end to p10/top 15

no way that happens in agr/fw/lbl. The quality of the field is too high

in flanders/roubaix only 4/5 real top riders start. In the ardennes you can triple that amount and the sub toppers are a lot closer to the top as well.

 

[Netserk]

Yeah and i said that

It wasn't aimed at your post, but in general for those who whines about him crashing out of flanders.

 

[LugHugger]

A win is still a win. Boonen bascially won 3 sprints too. He didn't attack either.

Have you watched any Flemish racing this year?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

in northern classics riders like turgot, tjallingii etc can podium out of nowhere. A lot of average riders end to p10/top 15

no way that happens in agr/fw/lbl. The quality of the field is too high

in flanders/roubaix only 4/5 real top riders start. In the ardennes you can triple that amount and the sub toppers are a lot closer to the top as well.

To be fair there are other factors involved in that. A far greater element of chance is key in the northern Classics, and the field gets blown apart much earlier too. Amstel and Liège tend to go down to the last 30-40km before any serious action takes place, and things tend to be more cagey. There's no Koppenberg or Arenberg section that tears things up with 80 to go in the Ardennes, so the selection tends to be much larger and made later. Plus of course, in addition to hilly Classics specialists and Classics all-rounders, pretty much any GC guy can contend the hilly classics, with a few notable exceptions (Basso, Menchov, Sastre), which can inflate the number of contenders.

 

[Bavarianrider]

in northern classics riders like turgot, tjallingii etc can podium out of nowhere. A lot of average riders end to p10/top 15

no way that happens in agr/fw/lbl. The quality of the field is too high

in flanders/roubaix only 4/5 real top riders start. In the ardennes you can triple that amount and the sub toppers are a lot closer to the top as well.

They are quality riders just because you call them so.
If someone like Turgot finish 2nd he has a hell lot of quality. It just a different one then your beloved uphill sprinting.

 

[EvansIsTheBest]

Yes, it was still a steller field. Evans has won one semi-classic in his life, Contador none, neither has Kolobnev. Those guys don't have the same impact as a Cancellara missing.

Besides that, the Ardennes have a much tougher field, Gilbert still had to face the likes of the Schleck's, Sanchez, Rodriguez, Nibali, Cunego, Anton, Kreuziger etc.

Let's see at LBL 2010, Vinokourov and Kolobnev were the only one to have a gap on Gilbert and they were well below par in 2011, Valverde and Evans were the only to keep up with him and they were both missing in 2011.
At the Flèche Wallonne 2010 5 riders finished ahead of Gilbert : Evans and Contador were missing in 2011 and Cunego I had to check his results on cq to be sure he actually rode the Ardennes classics in 2011.
To say that the field that Gilbert faced in 2011 was weaker than the other years is an understatement. So you can hardly play the card of the field being weaker for either Boonen or Gilbert

 

[El Pistolero]

Well, Gilbert was UNBEATABLE since Brabantse Pijl till the first Tour stage. That's quite a feat that Boonen will not repeat.

Just as impressive if you ask me, although having 2 Monuments in a season is always better than one. Perhaps one day AGR will be a Monument

 

[El Pistolero]

Let's see at LBL 2010, Vinokourov and Kolobnev were the only one to have a gap on Gilbert and they were well below par in 2011, Valverde and Evans were the only to keep up with him and they were both missing in 2011.
At the Flèche Wallonne 2010 5 riders finished ahead of Gilbert : Evans and Contador were missing in 2011 and Cunego I had to check his results on cq to be sure he actually rode the Ardennes classics in 2011.
To say that the field that Gilbert faced in 2011 was weaker than the other years is an understatement. So you can hardly play the card of the field being weaker for either Boonen or Gilbert

Oh please, Valverde was banned for a reason and Contador would not have beaten Gilbert at LBL. Phil was a lot better than Contador at FW.

As for Evans, he wouldn't have beat him. Times don't lie and Gilbert rode up the Mur a lot faster than Evans

 

[ilrumne]

in northern classics riders like turgot, tjallingii etc can podium out of nowhere. A lot of average riders end to p10/top 15

no way that happens in agr/fw/lbl. The quality of the field is too high

in flanders/roubaix only 4/5 real top riders start. In the ardennes you can triple that amount and the sub toppers are a lot closer to the top as well.

The reason why this will not happen in AGR/FW/LBL, is because riders who are good in these classics mostly also are good in hilly/mountainous stages. A rider who is able to ride a top-10 in a GT is considered much better than a cyclist riding top-10 in sprints and the points classification of the same GT.
It's a bit a tricky comparison, I know, but a Gesink who can compete in hilly classics is like Greipel or Farrar battling with the best in Paris-Roubaix: a sign of a lack of specialists.

 

[luckyboy]

Lets have a round-up of the top tier contenders at Ronde + Roubaix and the Ardennes..

Cobbles
Boonen
Cancellara
Ballan
Pozzato
Hushovd
Flecha

Ardennes
Gilbert
A.Schleck
F.Schleck
Valverde
Evans
Rodriguez
Gesink
Sanchez?

Have I missed anyone out of the Ardennes? Pretty even number of riders there.
Without wishing to denigrate the Ardennes, It's easier to find riders who are good because it basically just boils down to climbing. Cobbled races require much more specialisation, and thus the competition appears thinner.


Also +1 on the point about GT riders in the Ardennes.

 

[Panda Claws]

Northern Classics 2 monuments
Ardennes: One Monument, and two 200km nothing happens uphill sprint races.

Northern Doubles are quite common.

Ardenne Trebles have only been done twice.

...

 

[Caruut]

Northern Doubles are quite common.

Ardenne Trebles have only been done twice.

...

There is a natural logic in a "treble" being harder than a "double". If we now rebrand Gent-Wevelgem, the Ronde van Vlaanderen and Paris-Roubaix as the cobbled "treble", then it's only been done this once, I believe.

 

[Unkown]

I like how everybody seems to think they have to pick what was better, Ardennes 2011 or Northern Classics 2012, can't we just say that both Boonen and Gilbert were unbelievable? And how are suppose to compare whose performance was better when we don't even (and never will) how good each and every cyclist is. You can say that there was more competition in the Ardennes or that the Northern Classics are harder to finish but I just like to sit back and watch. Not everything needs to be debated down to the ground but I guess thats what a forum is for.

Chapeau to Boonen, wish we could have seen Cancellera though because that would have been an incredible battle.

 

[luckyboy]

I was about to post that about the treble vs double.

By the way the cobbled treble has been done by Van Looy in 1962, and Boonen in 2012. Ardennes treble twice by Rebellin in 2004 and Gilbert in 2011 too.

If the Ardennes were a double (since 1936, FW + LBL) then the people who have done that are..
1951 Kubler
1952 Kubler
1955 Ockers
1972 Merckx
1991 Argentin
2004 Rebellin
2011 Gilbert

Cobbled double..
1923 Suter
1932 Gijssels
1934 Rebry
1954 Impanis
1957 De Bruyne
1962 Van Looy
1977 De Vlaeminck
2003 Van Petegem
2005 Boonen
2010 Cancellara
2012 Boonen

 

[El Pistolero]

Back in the day of Rick van Looy those 3 races took place in the span of one week tho. And E3 Prijs wasn't a big race. Neither was the Amstel Gold Race. Rick van Looy called it a kersmiskoers.

 

[Bavarianrider]

By the way, if a race can realistically be won by a large number of athletes, this is a sign for an easy race, not a togh race.
The fewer guys are capable of winning, the harder the race is.

 

[gerundium]

By the way, if a race can realistically be won by a large number of athletes, this is a sign for an easy race, not a togh race.
The fewer guys are capable of winning, the harder the race is.

This is a huge fallacy. A small number of people capable of winning a race could just as easily mean you need to be highly specialized / it's a 'niche' race.

 

[El Pistolero]

That is correct, Paris-Roubaix always boils down to the strongest riders.