The blurred lines of Livestrong - the spin bike sham

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Oct 25, 2010
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Race Radio said:
Where does this $10 million number come from? Livestrong says it is just over $1,000,000 and much of that was given in his name by another donor.

Based on everything I have seen and read, I would be VERY surprised to see big donations coming from Lance's own pocket. And to the latter part of your point, I'd need to see the check from his own account along with evidence he was not quickly reimbursed.

But even if he's asked this question point blank, there's no way he'd answer it directly. He'd talk about his time, his rallying, unending, tireless efforts, etc. He'll talk about the millions he's raised, yada yada.
 
Race Radio said:
Where does this $10 million number come from? Livestrong says it is just over $1,000,000 and much of that was given in his name by another donor.

I was counting neigh on 1m per year since 2000. So 10 million over 10 years. Its listed in each annual report. But right you are the the latter donations come under "The Lance Armstrong Family Fund" rather than from himself.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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thehog said:
I was counting neigh on 1m per year since 2000. So 10 million over 10 years. Its listed in each annual report. But right you are the the latter donations come under "The Lance Armstrong Family Fund" rather than from himself.

That is not an annual donation, that is an asset. It appears the same every year. There is nothing that shows that it is an annual donation from Armstrong, because it is not.

As I understand it much of it came from a wealthy groupie years ago.
 
Race Radio said:
That is not an annual donation, that is an asset. It appears the same every year. There is nothing that shows that it is an annual donation from Armstrong, because it is not.

As I understand it much of it came from a wealthy groupie years ago.

Got it. Thanks. Would the jury strike the last 3 posts from their minds?
 
Dec 14, 2010
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thehog said:
Polish is actually correct. Armstrong has donated 10 million of his own money to Livestrong.org.

Which in itself it admirable.

but... there always a but...

However if you are the chairman of the charity and the same charity is paying you a hefty salary and funding your travel to fuel your professional work then it becomes a problem. Because the 10 million investment is tax deductible. Then that money is funnelled straight back into your expenses without hitting the tax man. Thats fraud again.

10 million. That pays the lease on the jet right there.

I stand corrected. I had heard of these seven figure donations, but had thought they were more 'donated in his name' rather than actually donated BY him.

Now where is the salt. I hear "crow" (not "Crow" as in the musician) tastes better with a little salt and I have some to consume....
 

Polish

BANNED
Mar 11, 2009
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thehog said:
Polish is actually correct.
but... there always a but...
.

Yes, there is ALWAYS a but - no such thing as "excessive" lapdances fcol.

BotanyBay said:
Based on everything I have seen and read, I would be VERY surprised to see big donations coming from Lance's own pocket.

Of course you would be VERY suprised. That was my point....
You guys would go from blurred to cross eyed on the news.

Personally, I think Lance advised his accountants to keep the big $$ donations off the table. A true gift. No deduction. Probably the way Bill and Melinda do their taxes too.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Hugh Januss said:
Yes, but then you think Lance's farts are floral scented.

Speaking about flowers (floral), I was thinking about getting a yellow rose bush for my room where I have my Spinslonger spinner. What you think? Will it help with the O’s levels or not?
 
Mar 18, 2009
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I'm reminded of a genuinely Grand Champion who, in his lifetime, never sought honour for the charitable works that he did though he put himself in situations a good deal more perilous than those facing Mr Armstrong - after all, a firing squad or a hangman will always kill you http://road.cc/node/28770

The mark of a great champion - and a truly great man - is never to seek personal gain or advancement from the good works you do. I'm afraid Mr Armstrong fails both as a 'humanitarian' and as a man
 
Oct 25, 2010
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bianchigirl said:
I'm reminded of a genuinely Grand Champion who, in his lifetime, never sought honour for the charitable works that he did though he put himself in situations a good deal more perilous than those facing Mr Armstrong - after all, a firing squad or a hangman will always kill you http://road.cc/node/28770

The mark of a great champion - and a truly great man - is never to seek personal gain or advancement from the good works you do. I'm afraid Mr Armstrong fails both as a 'humanitarian' and as a man

I had the honor of meeting Gino in the mid 80's. I was working in a local bike shop and in walks this older man who was gazing at a big blow-up print we had of two old-skool TDF racers duking it out in the mountains. There was something about him that made us pay attention. We asked him if he liked the poster and he asked us if we knew who they were. My friend pointed at one guy and said "I dunno, is that Fausto Coppi?". He took two steps back, shook his head and said "Thatsa notta Coppi! Thatsa ME! Gino Bartali! I won that race! The guy nexta to me isa Coppi!".

Gino stayed and chatted with us for over an hour, signed our poster, posed for photos, etc. We shared our lunch with the man, and it was one of the highlights of my life. Sitting around and sharing our love of cycling. He thought very highly of Greg Lemond as I remember.

It was cool, as he'd been in town on vacation visiting a relative. He'd heard that we were the "bike racing shop" in town and he decided to come hang with us, just because he loved bikes. RIP Gino!

BTW, this was the photo in question:

coppi_bartali.jpg
 
May 26, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
Ah, the new Mantra..... why is this in The Clinic??
There is nothing limiting what can be discussed in 'The Clinic'

However, if you wish to discuss something that is doping related then it can should be discussed within The Clinic.

We are discussing Lance's charity called Livest..... oooops, I mean,
the Lance Armstrong Foundation.

The, as you put it "doping content" is rather self evident.

Huh?

I asked once, got no reply, asked again, and it's suddenly a 'mantra'. Did I hit a nerve or something?

Right here on the CN forum: "The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures."

Seems clear to me - according to CN's guidelines, The Clinic is not the place to discuss corporate charity fraud (or what effectively amounts to it), given that it's the place to discuss doping or testing procedures.

Maybe it's time for CN to edit the guidelines for The Clinic to be less specific in order to reflect moderating reality. Otherwise we'll end up discussing Ullrich's bike range here, given the doping content there is just as obvious.
 
yourwelcome said:
Huh?

I asked once, got no reply, asked again, and it's suddenly a 'mantra'. Did I hit a nerve or something?

Right here on the CN forum: "The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures."

Seems clear to me - according to CN's guidelines, The Clinic is not the place to discuss corporate charity fraud (or what effectively amounts to it), given that it's the place to discuss doping or testing procedures.

Maybe it's time for CN to edit the guidelines for The Clinic to be less specific in order to reflect moderating reality. Otherwise we'll end up discussing Ullrich's bike range here, given the doping content there is just as obvious.

Have you failed to see the evolution of "The Clinic" as a hotbed for controversy and deception across a range of areas and a range of sports, over the 18months or so since it's been around? The forum administrators clearly haven't minded that, so why would this topic be any different?

Don't take a little forum description so literally, when making forums most people just write the first thing that comes to their head no matter how good/bad it sounds, and should by no means be taken as any form of rule/guideline.
 
May 26, 2009
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Whilst the original discussion was well meant this thread has now been Hijacked by Ne'rdowells to the extent that it is causing alarm to people who are motivated to raise funds for Livestrong.
When you arrive on fatcyclist.com you wil find refs to this thread and see the damage that is being done to people who quite rightly support Livestrong for the work that they are doing.
Comparing Livestrong Apples to SGK oranges is counterproductive in that both organisations have different goals as i point out in my blog and others who have far greater credibility discuss in their efforts.

AS i have stated elsewhere knocking "Tall Poppies" is a sport some enjoy and if they stand to collect 10% of the proceeds by standing on their soapbox raving on about what they know best "Sporting Fraud" then we should IGNORE them rather than fuelling a non existant grievance that they wish to settle.
Livestrong is about 10+ years in the public arena and as grown to be a force for helping those suffering Big C. and like other org.s has it's supporters and detractors.
Toyota is a big organisation also who have had product problems and people have issues with them but do they go on about the "childish side issues"?

I think not!

Please no more Mud Throwing!
 
May 26, 2009
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thehog said:
This caught my eye this morning along with the first comment on the Wired website. Now excuse my maths but I think the basic principle of my argument still applies....


http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/12/livestrong-stationary-bike-wins-tour-de-bedroom/

Great review of the new @livestrongfit spin bike in @wired !! http://tinyurl.com/34p6v2x - Lance Armstrong Twitter feed.
_

The article reads:

The Livestrong Limited Edition Indoor Cycle differs from all other stationary bikes in just one way: It looks totally bad-***.

The bike, which comes in the trademark yellow-and-black colorway, will cost $1,700, $1,000 of which goes to Livestrong, Lance Armstrong’s cancer charity. Just 500 will be made, and there are several Lance and cancer-themed design flourishes: the number 28 on the fork represents the “28 million people living with cancer,” and the “seven stars on the seat post represent Armstrong’s record-breaking seven Tour de France wins.”

- What interested me most was that $1000 of the $1700 price tag goes to Livestrong.

The first comment below the article says:

-“Stepping back - its a cool product. It's a cooler gesture to be donating more than half the cost to cancer research. It's even a fair price for such a good looking piece of equipment. - I'll lobby my health club to consider a few of these and do the right thing”

On the surface $1000 out of $1700 does seem very good. To the casual observer that’s $1000 straight from the purchase for “cancer research”. If I was going to buy a spin bike I might as well buy this one because well over “half” is going to charity and its a good cause. The fact that it has the “28” logo down the side of the bike means it’s a representation of “cancer suffers” - again reasserting the theme its for "cancer research".

But this is where the Livestrong lines become very blurred. The $1000 is going to Livestrong.com or Livestorng.org? How can anyone really tell if the $1000 if for the "for profit" or for the "non-profit" entity? I would assume the .org enity?

Now if true then of that $1000 we know that a rounded 80% goes into "Programs" with the remaining 19% into “Admin/Fundraising”. So now we're down to $800 of the $1000. If we look that total revenue or donations/grants for “Programs” in 2009 was $31,000,000 (rounded). Travel was $2,000,000 and salaries were $6,000,000 and legal bills were a staggering $9,000,000. So if I subtract those figures away from the $37,000,000 I’m left with $14million or 37% of the “Program Fees”.

Therefore for the $1000 Livestrong donation became $800 for Programs only and 37% of this is for “awareness” program which results in $296. The $296 could go anywhere.... We’ll never know if that goes to salaries or bonus awards or to awareness programs but not cancer reseach as the first poster lamely suggests. (Although I think the marketing idea was to create the that very impression)

Now it’s a smart way of marketing a $1700 bike. You think it’s being rolled into the charity but in reality the it’s just funding more of Livestrong expenses. My assumption would be the $700 component goes to Livestrong.com for the manufacturing and distribution of the bike. Having Lance send a twitter about it adds to the feel that’s its “all for cancer”.

Cheap and nasty marketing if you ask me.

And for the life of me when they say $1000 goes to Livestrong I do hope at least this is the "non profit" entity. A simple Google search means you can only buy it from the "http://www.livestrongfitness.com/product/ls28ic/" - Livestrong Fitness.com site which is obviously for profit with the byline: "Join the fight
With each purchase, $1,000 will be donated to LIVESTRONG® to improve the lives of people affected by cancer
" - its the (R) which worries me the most.
Whilst the original discussion was well meant this thread has now been Hijacked by Ne'rdowells to the extent that it is causing alarm to people who are motivated to raise funds for Livestrong.
When you arrive on fatcyclist.com you wil find refs to this thread and see the damage that is being done to people who quite rightly support Livestrong for the work that they are doing.
Comparing Livestrong Apples to SGK oranges is counterproductive in that both organisations have different goals as i point out in my blog and others who have far greater credibility discuss in their efforts.

AS i have stated elsewhere knocking "Tall Poppies" is a sport some enjoy and if they stand to collect 10% of the proceeds by standing on their soapbox raving on about what they know best "Sporting Fraud" then we should IGNORE them rather than fuelling a non existant grievance that they wish to settle.
Livestrong is about 10+ years in the public arena and as grown to be a force for helping those suffering Big C. and like other org.s has it's supporters and detractors.
Toyota is a big organisation also who have had product problems and people have issues with them but do they go on about the "childish side issues"?

I think not!

Please no more Mud Throwing!
 
skippy said:
and as grown to be a force for helping those suffering Big C.

...and jet fuel... and multi-million dollar private endorsements... and Demand Media... and Haiti...

People's time would be much better spent raising funds for cancer charities with a much greater direct impact and far fewer "expenses".
 
yourwelcome said:
Seems clear to me - according to CN's guidelines, The Clinic is not the place to discuss corporate charity fraud (or what effectively amounts to it), given that it's the place to discuss doping or testing procedures.

Maybe it's time for CN to edit the guidelines for The Clinic to be less specific in order to reflect moderating reality. Otherwise we'll end up discussing Ullrich's bike range here, given the doping content there is just as obvious.

This question has been addressed before. The Clinic is the only place where doping can be discussed, so if a thread makes ANY references to doping, it HAS to go in the doping forum. Given that LA is currently being investigated by the federal government for possible fraud related to doping, a thread discussing possible fraud in his charity, specifically, money donated to the charity that might LA might have used personally and in connection with his racing, has a pretty obvious relationship to doping.

Whilst the original discussion was well meant this thread has now been Hijacked by Ne'rdowells to the extent that it is causing alarm to people who are motivated to raise funds for Livestrong.
When you arrive on fatcyclist.com you wil find refs to this thread and see the damage that is being done to people who quite rightly support Livestrong for the work that they are doing.
Comparing Livestrong Apples to SGK oranges is counterproductive in that both organisations have different goals as i point out in my blog and others who have far greater credibility discuss in their efforts.

AS i have stated elsewhere knocking "Tall Poppies" is a sport some enjoy and if they stand to collect 10% of the proceeds by standing on their soapbox raving on about what they know best "Sporting Fraud" then we should IGNORE them rather than fuelling a non existant grievance that they wish to settle.
Livestrong is about 10+ years in the public arena and as grown to be a force for helping those suffering Big C. and like other org.s has it's supporters and detractors.
Toyota is a big organisation also who have had product problems and people have issues with them but do they go on about the "childish side issues"?

I think not!

Please no more Mud Throwing!

Could you please:

1) identify the people in the forum "who stand to collect 10% of the proceeds"? While you're at it, please explain what proceeds are involved.
2) show how their grievances are "non-existent".
3) explain why "non-existent grievances" cause "damage" and "alarm".
4) name the charity founded by Toyota's CEO, and explain how that is intricately involved in Toyota's business.
 
Jul 25, 2009
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skippy said:
Whilst the original discussion was well meant this thread has now been Hijacked by Ne'rdowells to the extent that it is causing alarm to people who are motivated to raise funds for Livestrong.
When you arrive on fatcyclist.com you wil find refs to this thread and see the damage that is being done ......

Exposing unethical behavior means people who raise money to help others can choose to raise money for charities that make the best use of it. Otherwise those well intentioned people are just being used as a pipeline to channel resources away from those in need, towards greedy and amoral people who abuse their position of privileged in the community.

Speaking of mud slinging, did you notice that describing contributors to this thread as "Ne'rdowells" is mud slinging?
 
skippy said:
Whilst the original discussion was well meant this thread has now been Hijacked by Ne'rdowells to the extent that it is causing alarm to people who are motivated to raise funds for Livestrong.

Uh-oh. God forbid that the truth might encourage people to raise money for a real charity instead of one that is run by a doper who uses his charity to enrich himself. Methinks that after the SI article comes out there will be a few fat cyclists finding comfort in a pint of Chunky Monkey.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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skippy said:
Whilst the original discussion was well meant this thread has now been Hijacked by Ne'rdowells to the extent that it is causing alarm to people who are motivated to raise funds for Livestrong.
When you arrive on fatcyclist.com you wil find refs to this thread and see the damage that is being done to people who quite rightly support Livestrong for the work that they are doing.

It appears you, and Fatty, have been talking to different people at Livestrong the I have. The fact is there are many people who were involved who are sickened by the exploitation. They are talking to the media and they want this exposed.

If Armstrong is using Livestrong funds for Jet Fuel, Lap Dances, to leverage personal investments and increase his wealth how is pointing this out mud slinging?
 
Jul 6, 2010
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I really hope that that was PS doing their thing, otherwise Skippy's looking like he should have been kept in the cellar for another couple of years.

No offense to those posters who have been forcibly sequestered due to lack of cerebral perfomance. You know who you are...