The blurred lines of Livestrong - the spin bike sham

[Alpe d'Huez]

Gotta keep the leader happy:

OMG! The Bagwan! Wow, flashbacks to one of the darker moments in my state's history.

Now, back to your regular discussion.

 

[BotanyBay]

OMG! The Bagwan! Wow, flashbacks to one of the darker moments in my state's history.

Now, back to your regular discussion.

Now imagine them all wearing Yellow.

 

[Merckx index]

If Livestrong were real advocates of cancer research, they would have been one of the loudest voices for a single-payer system that takes the profit motive out of medical treatment in the US. But they remained silent throughout the whole national debate while Armstrong was gorging himself on HgH and blood transfusions and still wound up crashing, stumbling and bumbling all over Europe in 2010.

Very good point. They could have taken some kind of stand, used the debate to underscore the fact that many cancer victims can't afford the treatment they need, that in that sense charities like Livestrong are just a bandaid. The health care system the U.S. eventually ends up with will have far more impact on people with cancer than any NGO.

Now lets not debate the untold damage to the environment by taking a jet rather than a passenger plane whereby the fuel damage is shared.

Oh, let’s, Hog. I saw an article a few years back on the hypocrisy of certain Hollywood celebrities who promoted environmental awareness while flying a private jet. The figures given, which alas I don’t remember, made it very clear that the financial as well as environmental costs of flying private are far, far beyond flying commercial. It’s a waste in every sense of the word. Not to mention that if LA did fly commercial, he could rub shoulders no doubt with some cancer survivors and some potential donors, and further his message. Seems to me it would be a great way to get the message out.

Lance would never do that. The last time he flew commercial was when he broke his collarbone. He ended up getting drunk on the flight, abusing other passengers and then tried to pick up the flight attendant! He later claimed it was the pain killers mixed with one drink!

Serious?

OMG! The Bagwan! Wow, flashbacks to one of the darker moments in my state's history.

Lance is an amateur compared to this character. I mean, LA does have those 7 Tours as a claim to fame. This guy did it all with his mouth. A real master.

 

[lean mean &green]

Very good point. They could have taken some kind of stand, used the debate to underscore the fact that many cancer victims can't afford the treatment they need, that in that sense charities like Livestrong are just a bandaid. The health care system the U.S. eventually ends up with will have far more impact on people with cancer than any NGO.

helllllloooooo?!?! are you stupid or something? the goal is awareness - not advocacy, duh!!!!

 

[Ferminal]

On a vaguely related note: How big an ego must you have to need a personalised Tail number on your private jet?

duh, it took me a bit of thinking to work out what the "N7" was, but I can only assume he's referring to the number of positives he returned from the 1999 TdF.

 

[Fausto's Schnauzer]

FAA Record

It is a Gulfstream IV - its cost per hour is $4,073.

Aircraft Description

Serial Number 1286 Type Registration Corporation
Manufacturer Name GULFSTREAM AEROSPACE Certificate Issue Date 10/07/2009
Model G-IV Expiration Date 12/31/2012
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Status Valid
Pending Number Change None Type Engine Turbo-fan
Date Change Authorized None Dealer No
MFR Year 1996 Mode S Code 52250327
Fractional Owner NO
Registered Owner

Name MELLOW JOHNNYS AVIATION LLC
Street 98 SAN JACINTO BLVD STE 430

City AUSTIN State TEXAS
County TRAVIS Zip Code 78701-4283
Country UNITED STATES
Airworthiness

Engine Manufacturer ROLLS-ROYC Classification Standard
Engine Model TAY 611SER Category Transport
A/W Date 03/18/1996

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Lance is an amateur compared to the Bagwan. I mean, LA does have those 7 Tours as a claim to fame. This guy did it all with his mouth. A real master.

He convinced hundreds of people to follow him and take every word he said for the gospel truth. This included all kinds of people from all walks of life, doctors even, who joined his cult. These people often gave him all of their money including all of their life savings, stock, cashed out 401k, everything, and he purchased among other things a fleet of Rolls Royces for himself to be driven around in. In the end they ended up over $50 million in the hole (in 1985 dollars) and bankrupt, before some members committed the largest bioterrorism act in the history of the US against a nearby city. Some members were sent to prison, and he was deported. The Wiki entry on the Rashneeshees is both incomplete and relatively forgiving. But people from here who lived through it will never forget.

I'm not an LA fan, but he's not even close to the Bagwan.

 

[D-Queued]

He convinced hundreds of people to follow him and take every word he said for the gospel truth. This included all kinds of people from all walks of life, doctors even, who joined his cult. These people often gave him all of their money including all of their life savings, stock, cashed out 401k, everything, and he purchased among other things a fleet of Rolls Royces for himself to be driven around in. In the end they ended up over $50 million in the hole (in 1985 dollars) and bankrupt, before some members committed the largest bioterrorism act in the history of the US against a nearby city. Some members were sent to prison, and he was deported. The Wiki entry on the Rashneeshees is both incomplete and relatively forgiving. But people from here who lived through it will never forget.

I'm not an LA fan, but he's not even close to the Bagwan.

...he certainly hasn't increased the homeless population in Austin - yet. But, Austin is a lot warmer than Portland. Lance does have all that excess water along with a good private transport system to get them there.

Hope rides again?

Dave.

 

[Granville57]

Cancer Inc & the marketing of "awareness"

This could easily be a thread unto itself but since the topic has been mentioned here specifically, I'll offer this as part of the ongoing discussion.

...I find it fascinating how LA and the core supporters use the term "awareness" so broadly. As if Lance himself is cancer awareness. Hence, any action he takes is justified as such, because of who he is. I can't think of another charity or individual who has pushed a definition so far.

The absurd notion that somehow people aren't "aware" of cancer could easily fill several pages of ranting on my part. But for the purposes of this thread, I find it interesting that the inappropriate marketing of "awareness" isn't just limited to Livestrong.

This 2006 article highlights Samantha King, an associate professor of kinesiology and health studies at Queen’s University in Ontario. She is the author of, Pink Ribbons Inc.: Breast Cancer and the Politics of Philanthropy.
Some key excerpts:

"Behind the corporate goodwill and fundraising, ripples of dissent are growing about the commercialization of breast cancer."

"...they believe the crusade against cancer should be less about shopping and more about preventing and finding the cause of the disease."

“We have awareness. The question is, what do we do now?"

Some of the biggest sponsors of breast cancer awareness month are companies with an “interest in women continuing to be diagnosed with the disease,’’ King said, because they make drugs to treat it and equipment used in mammography.
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/10/06/Tampabay/All_may_not_be_in_the.shtml

Isn't this exactly the kind of thing we see with all the branding of Livestrong and the campaign for awareness? Bracelets, "28" shirts, exercise equipment, etc., etc., etc..
With some of the excellent work being done on this thread in terms of "following the money" it reinforces another question I have always had: Is there is a battle between competing organizations for visibility, donations, funding and awareness?

Yellow vs Pink?

Everyone wants in as long as they can make a buck off cancer. Here is direct evidence of corporate manipulation: Play to people's better sense of wanting to help a cause...but only go so far.

This from a 2009 article:

"The packaging of another product, Herr's Whole Grain Pretzel Ribbons, proclaims that a portion of its sales will be donated to breast cancer awareness and research programs. But there's an asterisk accompanying that statement, which leads to a caveat that Herr's caps its donation at $15,000."

"Consumers could be buying a product, and if the maximum has been reached, their product purchase doesn't help."

http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/company-news/pink-ribbon-overkill-companies-exploit-breast-cancer-campaigns/19190363/

Some other pertinent info from a 2009 Boston Globe article
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/magazine/articles/2009/10/04/sick_of_pink/

I could easily quote dozens of talking points from these and many other articles (just Google: Samantha King & cancer) but I'll leave it up to the curious to explore. I hope this doesn't seem too "off topic" because as we ask questions about the funding of Livestrong and the manipulation of public perception for profit, we are provided a template of how others are doing the exact same thing. Sometimes stepping away from the "Yellow fog" allows us to see things more clearly and to do away with the irrational arguments that this is a nothing more than a unguided personal attack on LA himself.

Happy reading!

 

[Dallas_]

This has to be the best thread in the clinic - so interesting and informative. Actually after the initial posts. I thought it would fade out - WRONG.

I wonder if any SI journalists have looked here for some insight?

That good, I am going back to post 1 to read it all again.
cheers

 

[TexPat]

This could easily be a thread unto itself but since the topic has been mentioned here specifically, I'll offer this as part of the ongoing discussion.


The absurd notion that somehow people aren't "aware" of cancer could easily fill several pages of ranting on my part. But for the purposes of this thread, I find it interesting that the inappropriate marketing of "awareness" isn't just limited to Livestrong.

This 2006 article highlights Samantha King, an associate professor of kinesiology and health studies at Queen’s University in Ontario. She is the author of, Pink Ribbons Inc.: Breast Cancer and the Politics of Philanthropy.
Some key excerpts:



Isn't this exactly the kind of thing we see with all the branding of Livestrong and the campaign for awareness? Bracelets, "28" shirts, exercise equipment, etc., etc., etc..
With some of the excellent work being done on this thread in terms of "following the money" it reinforces another question I have always had: Is there is a battle between competing organizations for visibility, donations, funding and awareness?

Yellow vs Pink?

Everyone wants in as long as they can make a buck off cancer. Here is direct evidence of corporate manipulation: Play to people's better sense of wanting to help a cause...but only go so far.

This from a 2009 article:

Some other pertinent info from a 2009 Boston Globe article
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/magazine/articles/2009/10/04/sick_of_pink/

I could easily quote dozens of talking points from these and many other articles (just Google: Samantha King & cancer) but I'll leave it up to the curious to explore. I hope this doesn't seem too "off topic" because as we ask questions about the funding of Livestrong and the manipulation of public perception for profit, we are provided a template of how others are doing the exact same thing. Sometimes stepping away from the "Yellow fog" allows us to see things more clearly and to do away with the irrational arguments that this is a nothing more than a unguided personal attack on LA himself.

Happy reading!

This was one of the points made in a very good documentary on breast cancer I watched on the Documentary Channel a few weeks ago.
Great post.

 

[AussieGoddess]

Just to offer a comparison ....

Glen McGrath (an Australia Cricket Legend) and his late wife Jane started a foundation for Breast Cancer in 2003.

The McGrath Foundation

This is an example of a well run charity, where the founder actually donates his time and money .... and uses his celebrity status and contacts .... for the good of others. (you know - the ideals of charity)

It is a good comparison to the Lance Armstrong Foundation .... which comes off second best when looked at side by side

 

[thehog]

Tiger in his day and still now is earning much more than Lance can ever hope to pull. Tiger can afford his own jet. He's liquid. He's the first billion dollar sportsman.

It was only last week Madonna was stuck on a Virgin Atlantic flight from London to New York. Thats costs around 4k for upper class and its not first. There she was traipsed across the snow on the tarmac when the plane couldn't move.

Lance would never do that. The last time he flew commercial was when he broke his collarbone. He ended up getting drunk on the flight, abusing other passengers and then tried to pick up the flight attendant! He later claimed it was the pain killers mixed with one drink!

http://uk.eonline.com/uberblog/the_awful_truth/b106071_liquored-up_lance_loses_it_on_plane.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3xQfOSDT6g&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Liquid. Rich enough to own your own jet. $50-100million. That's 1987. Lance is earning 10m. Not jet status I'm afraid. Thank god for the charity.

 

[sartain]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3xQfOSDT6g&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Liquid. Rich enough to own your own jet. $50-100million. That's 1987. Lance is earning 10m. Not jet status I'm afraid. Thank god for the charity.

Hog,

I do not think this is all accurate and a bit of a stretch. I have seen several articles that say is net worth is in the $150-250M range, so while he may have earned $10-15M this year, he does have some smart people managing his money. If he gets the foundation to pick up the tab for his jet travel for every trip he takes under the sun, well, more power to him. But if the IRS is also looking into all of this, then someone will have to explain it.

 

[michaeld]

What about this:

Attaching cancer-research funding to consumption of a consumer good. When consumption increases, we increase industrial footprints, noxious emissions, green house gasses...which may all increase cancers.

So, do not buy the spin-bike and send $10 to your national cancer research foundation, and you'll do better.

 

[Race Radio]

Hog,

I do not think this is all accurate and a bit of a stretch. I have seen several articles that say is net worth is in the $150-250M range, so while he may have earned $10-15M this year, he does have some smart people managing his money. If he gets the foundation to pick up the tab for his jet travel for every trip he takes under the sun, well, more power to him. But if the IRS is also looking into all of this, then someone will have to explain it.

Those articles are wrong.

Maybe if he could claim that Livestrong as his personal asset.....humm,

 

[thehog]

Hog,

I do not think this is all accurate and a bit of a stretch. I have seen several articles that say is net worth is in the $150-250M range, so while he may have earned $10-15M this year, he does have some smart people managing his money. If he gets the foundation to pick up the tab for his jet travel for every trip he takes under the sun, well, more power to him. But if the IRS is also looking into all of this, then someone will have to explain it.

He does? Have you not read the posts in regards to CSE and Demand. Smart is one description.

 

[Race Radio]

He does? Have you not read the posts in regards to CSE and Demand. Smart is one description.

Och does have access to the best Swiss bankers.

His "investments" often sound like some form of hustle.

 

[TubularBills]

Any update on the Sports Illustrated expose?

I may have missed an update, but thought it was due last Wednesday?

Hoping it has lots of details on the tangled web of financial conflicts of interest, etc.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/cover/featured/11485/index.htm?eref=sircrc

 

[sartain]

Och does have access to the best Swiss bankers.

His "investments" often sound like some form of hustle.

Well, let's face it, none of us know what his real net worth is. But if it is only $25-50M, which I have trouble believing it is that low, then spending $17M for a used G-IV makes no sense at all, and I do not believe that there has been any proof showing that his small foundation would have been stupid enough to buy the this money-sucking toy outright, irrespective of the fact that they may be paying for all of the costs associated with operating it.

 

[Velocentric]

I believe you'll find if you look close enough at the Mellow Johnnys finances that it was actually them that purchased the plane with LAF providing 'assistance' with operational expenses like fuel.

Of course, the question then becomes where exactly does a simple bike shop (no matter who owns it) come up with the cash (or credit) to buy a jet? Yes, Armstrong earns a fair chunk of cash every year and endorsements help a lot with the bottom line but I'd be looking for capital investments from Trek, Nike and others. One thing that's become obvious with Armstrong and his business dealing is that he doesn't stump up financing himself, instead leaving that to his backers.

 

[sartain]

I believe you'll find if you look close enough at the Mellow Johnnys finances that it was actually them that purchased the plane with LAF providing 'assistance' with operational expenses like fuel.

Of course, the question then becomes where exactly does a simple bike shop (no matter who owns it) come up with the cash (or credit) to buy a jet? Yes, Armstrong earns a fair chunk of cash every year and endorsements help a lot with the bottom line but I'd be looking for capital investments from Trek, Nike and others. One thing that's become obvious with Armstrong and his business dealing is that he doesn't stump up financing himself, instead leaving that to his backers.

Makes the entire situation even more murky.

 

[Race Radio]

Well, let's face it, none of us know what his real net worth is. But if it is only $25-50M, which I have trouble believing it is that low, then spending $17M for a used G-IV makes no sense at all, and I do not believe that there has been any proof showing that his small foundation would have been stupid enough to buy the this money-sucking toy outright, irrespective of the fact that they may be paying for all of the costs associated with operating it.

I was not referring to the plane.

Wonderboy is trailer park. He wants to pretend he is a big boy and needs a big boy toy to keep up....and who wants to fly commercial with a bunch of dope?

 

[Polish]

I was not referring to the plane.

Wonderboy is trailer park. He wants to pretend he is a big boy and needs a big boy toy to keep up....and who wants to fly commercial with a bunch of dope?

Yes, Lance is Trailer Park.
And he is one of the most successful cyclists moola wise.
But Lance did not even make the Top50 highest paid US Jock for 2010:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/specials/fortunate50-2010/index.html

Lance is probably the only pro cyclist in the Top 500 lol.

Tiger, at numero uno again, makes more than all US Cyclists combined.
Average paid Pro Bowler does much better than the US pro cyclist

Yes, Lance is Trailer Park.
And US Pro Cycling is Trailer Park.

But c'mon - Trailer Parks can be VERY entertaining.
Gotta love those Pink Flamingos with the twirly wings...

 

[elizab]

[/QUOTE]

Polish, how did you get this photo of me?