the "clean" era

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May 26, 2010
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RichWalk said:
Points from the BBC 5 live doc last night;

Millar; "its moved on, huge steps taken, look at Brad"

Matt DeCanio; "no one ever implicated in doping should be involved in cycling again"

Tyler: " we were 2 steps at least ahead of the testers, I think now they (dopers) are only 1 step ahead"

D. Pound: "corruption will always be there, tests/positives will always be covered up, especially if the rider is high profile"

Ashenden: "the cheaters pretty much know what we know & we know what they are doing"

"None analytical testing is the way forward and the most sucessful way of catching these guys"

"I don't watch sport anymore, not even one day of the London Olympics"

"Any athlete using 'I've never tested positive' is rubbish, to me why would they say that, all they are doing is drawing attention to themselves"
Millar saying cycling has moved on? from what? Transfusions on the bus on the side of a mountain?

Ashenden saying we know what they are doing? Still doping obviously!

Pound believes UCI still corrupt and covering up positives, re Contador, of course but has there been other more recently?

Nothing will change unless there is a willingness on the whole of the sport to change and I cant see that and I cant here that from those in the sport!
 
Jul 13, 2012
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Dear Wiggo said:
No real issues with anything but the bold. Who said that second bold (non-analytical)?

I am guessing they mean the ABP, and that's a joke.
Ashenden, he's basically saying the tests (as they stand) arent as relevant as the process used by USADA
 
Sep 29, 2012
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RichWalk said:
Ashenden, he's basically saying the tests (as they stand) arent as relevant as the process used by USADA
Ah ok thanks. Non-analyticals are pretty rare yeah?
 
Jul 13, 2012
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Benotti69 said:
Millar saying cycling has moved on? from what? Transfusions on the bus on the side of a mountain?

Ashenden saying we know what they are doing? Still doping obviously!

Pound believes UCI still corrupt and covering up positives, re Contador, of course but has there been other more recently?

Nothing will change unless there is a willingness on the whole of the sport to change and I cant see that and I cant here that from those in the sport!
The 'going forward' argument was two sided, guys like DeCanio were vehement that no one implicated/involved deserves to ever have a role then Millar et al were 'we know the pit falls/logistics etc etc, so we need to be involved'

Chapman and Whittle realised the duality and said a lot of faith/hope rests with whether you believe in people like Millar and JV
 
Sep 29, 2012
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RichWalk said:
The 'going forward' argument was two sided, guys like DeCanio were vehement that no one implicated/involved deserves to ever have a role then Millar et al were 'we know the pit falls/logistics etc etc, so we need to be involved'
There's precedent for this:

Frank Abagnale Jr - "Catch me if you can" with Leonardo DiCaprio - ended up working for (He is a consultant and lecturer at the academy and field offices for the FBI). He also runs Abagnale & Associates, a financial fraud consultancy company.

Also some computer hackers end up working for security firms.

The problem with the Millars and JVs of this world, is they are not being used as consultants in a role to catch dopers (their expertise), but moved straight into admin and oversight.

Comparing this with the 2 precedents I listed first, (I think) you can see the fallacy of their current position in the hierarchy.

ie the criminals are employed by the company they defrauded to help prevent defrauding. Not starting up their own said company, or put in charge of it. Abagnale being director of FBI? Computer hacker being made manager of a bank? Dunno. Seems high risk to me. And there are better checks and balances there than pro cycling - from what I can see.

IMO JV and Miller should be working for WADA or USADA (definitely not UCI) to help catch or prevent other dopers.
 
Jul 13, 2012
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Dear Wiggo said:
There's precedent for this:

Frank Abagnale Jr - "Catch me if you can" with Leonardo DiCaprio - ended up working for (He is a consultant and lecturer at the academy and field offices for the FBI). He also runs Abagnale & Associates, a financial fraud consultancy company.

Also some computer hackers end up working for security firms.

The problem with the Millars and JVs of this world, is they are not being used as consultants in a role to catch dopers (their expertise), but moved straight into admin and oversight.

Comparing this with the 2 precedents I listed first, (I think) you can see the fallacy of their current position in the hierarchy.

ie the criminals are employed by the company they defrauded to help prevent defrauding. Not starting up their own said company, or put in charge of it. Abagnale being director of FBI? Computer hacker being made manager of a bank? Dunno. Seems high risk to me. And there are better checks and balances there than pro cycling - from what I can see.

IMO JV and Miller should be working for WADA or USADA (definitely not UCI) to help catch or prevent other dopers.
Yep I agree I've used the bank analogy before on here, Millar I believe is part of the athletes group of WADA and he actually said he was considering a future role in such circles. The extention of your precedents above could put Abagnale as FBI director, simply to facilitate hacking & ensure they werent caught..........;)
 
Sep 29, 2012
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RichWalk said:
Yep I agree I've used the bank analogy before on here, Millar I believe is part of the athletes group of WADA and he actually said he was considering a future role in such circles. The extention of your precedents above could put Abagnale as FBI director, simply to facilitate hacking & ensure they werent caught..........;)
Abagnale would be part owner of the FBI, to etc etc...

ETA: JV and Millar have roles where their income is dependent on performance and the perception of clean. Not catching dopers. If anything, preventing doper scandal (ie being caught) is a priority, simultaneously with performance.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Walkman said:
You think Indurain was clean in the beginning?
either clean or whatever he used wasn;'t much in the way of improving his results. he broke through in the tour of 1990, where he was better than lemond even. he was physiologicaly a superhuman and in the 80s he was already one of the top in 1 week stage races. he was always a supertalent brought carefully
 
Mar 31, 2010
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AussieEdge said:
Well it's not

Call me a fool to believe in Cadel being clean but I'm no more a fool than those who still call Vino a hero

And you know there are many

Tell me what's wrong, the Vino hero worshipping bit or the 'oh Evens and Wiggens must be dirty' believers bit or some believing both part
people that call vino a hero has nothing to do with believing he was clean. it's about eveyrthing else. he's the chuck norris of cycling I don't care if he murdered entire villages. he's made cycling for over a decade
 
Jun 26, 2012
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Ryo Hazuki said:
people that call vino a hero has nothing to do with believing he was clean. it's about eveyrthing else. he's the chuck norris of cycling I don't care if he murdered entire villages. he's made cycling for over a decade
I talking about after he came back & he is still liked

I take the anti Wiggins/ Cadel vitriol with a grain of salt because they are not forum favourites

I stand by my statement that they are just as foolish to do that as I am to believe there are clean riders out there and one those is Cadel
 
AussieEdge said:
I talking about after he came back & he is still liked

I take the anti Wiggins/ Cadel vitriol with a grain of salt because they are not forum favourites

I stand by my statement that they are just as foolish to do that as I am to believe there are clean riders out there and one those is Cadel
No one has any illusions about Vino being clean, before or after his suspension. He's a hero in the road section, not in the Clinic. Me, I heartily applaud his racing exploits when I post in the road section, but have nothing but contempt for him when I post in this subforum. It's better to treat the two aspects separately, or we'd never leave the Clinic to talk about racing.

After his WC victory, opinion on Evans has been largely favourable. I liked Wiggins before the fanboys made it hard to keep doing it. None of that has anyhing to do with discussing whether or not they're clean.
 
hrotha said:
No one has any illusions about Vino being clean, before or after his suspension. He's a hero in the road section, not in the Clinic. Me, I heartily applaud his racing exploits when I post in the road section, but have nothing but contempt for him when I post in this subforum. It's better to treat the two aspects separately, or we'd never leave the Clinic to talk about racing.

After his WC victory, opinion on Evans has been largely favourable. I liked Wiggins before the fanboys made it hard to keep doing it. None of that has anyhing to do with discussing whether or not they're clean.
:D Dude,are you sure it wasn't the "lazy bone idle ****ers" remark? :p
 
Jul 10, 2010
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AussieEdge said:
I talking about after he came back & he is still liked

I take the anti Wiggins/ Cadel vitriol with a grain of salt because they are not forum favourites

I stand by my statement that they are just as foolish to do that as I am to believe there are clean riders out there and one those is Cadel
hrotha said:
No one has any illusions about Vino being clean, before or after his suspension. He's a hero in the road section, not in the Clinic. Me, I heartily applaud his racing exploits when I post in the road section, but have nothing but contempt for him when I post in this subforum. It's better to treat the two aspects separately, or we'd never leave the Clinic to talk about racing.

After his WC victory, opinion on Evans has been largely favourable. I liked Wiggins before the fanboys made it hard to keep doing it. None of that has anyhing to do with discussing whether or not they're clean.
Well said. 10 char
 
Mar 31, 2010
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AussieEdge said:
I talking about after he came back & he is still liked

I take the anti Wiggins/ Cadel vitriol with a grain of salt because they are not forum favourites

I stand by my statement that they are just as foolish to do that as I am to believe there are clean riders out there and one those is Cadel
his comeback made him even more of a hero. because he came back at very high level still
 
May 15, 2009
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If cycling wants to show the world that they are trying to clean up the sport, I think they need to make a new rule:

"Hey guys, as of Jan. 1, 2013, if you fail a drug test, you are banned for life. And we will make a decision within 30 days."

(The whole AC thing was ridiculous. 18 months to make a decision. 2 year ban retroactive 18 months)
 
May 26, 2009
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Ryo Hazuki said:
the whole ac being suspended was ridiculous
Indeed. Get him for the real case, Puerto, but don't abuse a contamination for justice.

I'm sure he was on the sauce, but the amount simply is ridiculous. And yes, contaminated meat has always been an issue in Belgium, Spain etc. The papers regularly have scandals about meat fraud.
 
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