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The Dutch report - yesterday and today - recap and hope

Jul 10, 2010
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Headline CyclingNews:" Dutch Anti-Doping Commission says up to 95 percent of riders doped in EPO-era
. . . difficult to give percentages but a range of 80, 90 and perhaps 95 percent is in our eyes the truth."

Seems to be considered a good appraisal of "what was"
Marcel Wintels, chairman of the Dutch cycling federation told De Telegraaf that the report “gives us an honest, realistic but also painful insight into how widespread doping in cycling was"

A telling commentary from Boogerd is included at the end of that second article: Boogerd was reluctant to endorse the report’s conclusion that doping has been significantly eradicated in the years since 2008, however. “We’ve had some positive cases again on the Giro and you never know if there’s a new drug on the market,” Boogerd told De Telegraaf. “But let me say this: I’ve seen things that raise eyebrows after 2008 too.”

This actually gives me optimism. It confirms the "common" knowledge about the levels of drug usage in the EPO/dark era. It confirms the timeline of "when it got better". It confirms/validates what we have heard from other members of the peloton - like Johnathan Vaughters.

And, added to that, we have this: Rolland’s Tour build-up has been a troubled one however, and the Frenchman had to hand his racing licence back for eight days after he recorded abnormally low levels of cortisol in additional testing carried out by the MPCC (Movement for Credible Cycling) during the Critérium du Dauphiné.Which, again, is in my eyes at the moment reason for optimism. This confirms/validates the rumors swirling around Europcar after last year's tour - that they would get popped for steroid use. Ok - so, along with the rumor, we have, not a positive, but an unusual result, which is good enough to be a positive for me. So I think Rolland and Tommy have been pushing the envelope, but I'm willing to forgive them for it, at the moment. I think they were already careful, and now will be doubly so, and we haven't even seen a rumor that they were trying to circumvent the O2 vector stuff.

So why does Rolland add to my optimism? MPCC testing popped him. And MPCC is calling Europcar to task for not following the guidelines about pulling Rolland out of action. Rolland's test result seem consistent with pushing the envelope at the lesser end.

What we have here is a LOT of confirmation that
*we are seeing the situation with some reality today,
*we have the peloton, former peloton, and significant sections of the involved parties telling it "like it is"
*we still have some problems, but the tide of energy has changed, and people are calling it when they see a problem.

Imo, the pendulum is swinging back from the end where no one could be believed, to one where most of what we hear is believable, and the unbelievable is exceptional. Which is progress in the right direction.
 
And your evidence for the last paragraph is what? Your measure of 'believability' is what?

In the words of Mandy Rice-Davies

'Well they would say that wouldn't they?'

They said the same things after Festina when they went and raked over the bones back then.

Do you really think they would turn around and say:

Well actually despite all the rhetoric and the publicity generating moves like the biopassport, doping is still as rampant as ever within the sport and we'll be back here in 10 years with another round of handwringing

I thought that the Armstrong affair was supposed to smarten up people who follow cycling. Obviously there is still some way to go with that one and some people are still operating at 1999 levels of naivety.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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I think the fact that it discloses 80-95 per cent of riders did it dispels the myth that people can say for 100% certainty that they wouldn't have doped had they been in that environment themselves back then.

Some posters were using that moral argument quite strongly in a different thread that was discussed on this.
 
DirtyWorks said:
Absolutely true. I do believe they don't actually want to let riders kill themselves with too much EPO. Otherwise, if anything has improved it's the cheating is more sophisticated.

well dead bodies are not good for the sponsors and they are hard to explain away. (although they do try their best).

at some point or other something will come on the market that is probably equally toxic and we'll get another batch of dead riders.
 
gerundium said:
The best part about this report is people admitting that nothing substantial has changed and that if something new comes by we could wind up in the same situation we were in.

Yes, we have to distinguish between a new culture, in which riders feel it’s wrong to dope, and tests like the passport that make it more difficult to dope, or at least more difficult to raise the HT beyond certain limits. JV and some others I think tend to conflate these two possibilities. They point to lower power ratings as evidence for less doping—which IMO is a reasonable but not yet compelling argument—but then go from less doping to the notion that you can recruit a new generation of riders who are committed to riding clean. As difficult as it has been to get evidence for an effect of the tests, it’s even more difficult to get evidence for a new attitude among riders. It may be a little easier for riders today to speak out against doping, but that doesn’t prove they’re more committed to being clean. Most athletes have been committed to being clean when they’re certain everyone else is clean, but when that certainty fades, all bets are off.
 
It makes sense for Vaughters to say it because he has a vested financial interest in saying it and in selling his spin.

For anyone else to claim it makes you wonder if they weren't dropped on their head once too often. Then again, people believe in Uri Geller and the power of crystals, and omniscient mythical beings so there is no accounting for the paths of delusion that people take.
 
I think the average visitor of this forum knows more about doping in the EPO era than the committee compiling this report. Don't take too much stock in its conclusions.

F.ex. Stef Clement says he asked to be interviewed, because he wanted to share some info with them, and he got no response. What kind of anti-doping committee is that? To me this report reads like they worked toward a foregone conclusion.
 
The report is available as a pdf download here:
http://www.commissie-ada.nl/

It's unfortunately mostly in dutch but it has conclusions and recommendations in English. I thought it was very interesting.

I'm hoping the dutch in the interest of cooperation as they talked about translate the whole report into English.


The eternal pessimists should have a read before they harp on with the usual complaints.
 
ToreBear said:
The report is available as a pdf download here:
http://www.commissie-ada.nl/

It's unfortunately mostly in dutch but it has conclusions and recommendations in English. I thought it was very interesting.

I'm hoping the dutch in the interest of cooperation as they talked about translate the whole report into English.


The eternal pessimists should have a read before they harp on with the usual complaints.

Thanks:) Better late than never to began the dutch practicing..:p
 
Jan 20, 2013
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Benotti69 said:
Nail head and hammer.

Nothing has changed. Nothing.

Well head of UCI has not yet changed, but that is about it.

The drugs that are being used post 2008 almost certainly have. What about these genetically modified drugs that were due to come into play around 2008, just in time for Beijing Olympics and Bolt was born. Those drugs that can't be tested for in the conventional way?

I think it is possible that there is less doping on mass in the peloton, but the elite are probable doping unabated. And they will be the ones to dominate.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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There was another commission here in Holland, I believe it was the Union itsself, where riders and ex-riders were able to come clean and get a mild sentencing of six months.

Well, two former riders came clean, Kemna and a German notably! I always knew, Dutch dont dope. The show must go on.
 
Aug 17, 2009
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I don't know how they got the minimal 80% and possibly 90 to 95% comment. If they interviewed riders they have a sample poll, and they could have stated something a bit more definitive, like 85% plus or minus 5% 19 times out of 20 or something like that.

There is a big difference imho from 80% to 95%. From 1 in 5 to 1 in 20. The brush is a bit large.