The Gianni Moscon Bandwagon Jumping Thread

[Echoes]

Re:

so soemone who murders someone just once is not a murder
You are a racist if you utter racist remarks
You are a cheater if you cheat
Moson confessed to these and so sis his team

I haven't posted on this thread for quite a while because as I told several posters privately, I've changed my mind and no longer seek to defend him. Won't expand on that.

However you have problems in understanding that there's a difference between words and acts. Acts like murders can be pretty well defined (even though afterwards you still need to judge whether there are extenuating circumstances or not) while word is so flexible that you can never be sure of what the person really means. It can escape a mouth so quickly. There can be irony/sarcasm, etc. You cannot equate the two.

Besides, to my knowledge, Moscon denied any racist feature to his insult. He admitted to insulting. So the word "if" is still required. I won't comment about the bidon because it's useless. I'm bored with that. I'm much more angry with Moscon refusing to take turns with Alaphilippe than with the bidon issue.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Re:

so soemone who murders someone just once is not a murder
You are a racist if you utter racist remarks
You are a cheater if you cheat
Moson confessed to these and so sis his team

as I said ...excuser are everywhere

We have no proof re Reichenbach hence why i said the word 'if'

This discussion is becoming really tiresome but in an attempt to help people not miss each other's points too much, I want to say that people should be aware of the fact that the term "racism" (and thus "racist") has two somewhat distinct meanings and there is some misunderstanding in this thread as a result of the semantics concerning the term "racist".

In a narrower sense racism denotes the belief that a particular race is superior to others. You will find some dictionaries giving only this definition of racism. However, racist is also used in a broader sense to denote somebody who shows or feels any type of prejudice or discrimination towards someone of another race, some dictionaries also simply give this latter definition. Some dictionaries will give both definitions as distinct meanings of the word "racism".

So it seems pretty clear to me that those who suggest that Moscon is not necessarily a racist subscribe to the narrower definition and thus say that Moscon does not necessarily hold the belief that his race is superior to other races.
In the end, it boils down to semantics. But people get worked up over semantics when somebody receives an extremely negative label such as "racist".

(Btw @ HelloDolly, just to be clear, I'm not quoting your post because I'm criticizing it per se, but I think your post simply illustrates the point I'm trying to make quite well; your post makes perfect sense, but only when using the broader definition of racism)

 

[Angliru]

Well it is dishonest to be pulled at speed by a car up a hill and back in to a race ..while holding on to a bidon
You want to argue semantics...
Moscon cheated ...qed
It doesnt matter if someone done it before ...they cheated too ...its still cheating ...and it was not simply having a sticky bottle

But here is not the production of a valid argument ....here is as I said the utterences of the excusers

Dear HelloDolly, the thing is that the bidon episode made him a cheater during that race and he deservedly got DQed for that. The problem with many of you in this thread is that you are treating Moscon as if he has been cheating his entire career, on every single race he's taken part in. A serial cheater.

If today I get involved in a fight, that is not proof that I'm a violent person. Instead, in a very biased way, just because you don't like the guy, from a single episode you a making him a cheater for life.

Who is making anyone anything for life ??
No one...you are reading too much into this...

The point is should he be young rider of the year ... this year..and the answer imo is no because of the things he did this year ...

For the future he can stop all this behaviour and calm down and get on with racing...that is if he does not get in trouble for pushing Reichenbach....If he did that then he deserves a very strong punishment

Another example.
Do you have proof that he pushed Reichenbach... especially intentionally as claimed?

People are innocent until proven guilty!

I don't have any particular affection for Moscon.
I might be a total a*hole. Who knows... but why should he keep paying for those two past episodes months after they happened and he paid for them?

As far as we know...
He is not a racist.
He is not a cheater.

That meaning that we cannot judge him as a person, but only for those two specific episodes.
His behaviour was racist in that particular occasion... does it mean that he is a racist person? No.

I hope I've made my point clear.
No space for any racist behaviour. But no judging a person from a single episode.

...but did he really pay for the racist comments? He was suspended (by his team-not by the organization (UCI) that should have been making the ruling on his punishment) from racing for 6 weeks, a period where he was not scheduled to race anyway.

If you insult someone with a racist slur, you are a racist in my book. That is fortified by his minimizing the incident, as if he were the person that was wronged. He is clueless and based on his attitude, has a sense of entitlement and privilege based on...maybe the fact that he rides for the most influential and high profile team in the sport. I get the impression that he has this sense that he is empowered by his wearing the Sky kit, and thus can do as he pleases and when called out on it, feigns outrage that anyone would dare confront him. If the Reichenbach accusations prove true then he needs a serious sanction and therapy. Talented or not he is a major negative on the sport's image.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

so soemone who murders someone just once is not a murder
You are a racist if you utter racist remarks
You are a cheater if you cheat
Moson confessed to these and so sis his team

I haven't posted on this thread for quite a while because as I told several posters privately, I've changed my mind and no longer seek to defend him. Won't expand on that.

However you have problems in understanding that there's a difference between words and acts. Acts like murders can be pretty well defined (even though afterwards you still need to judge whether there are extenuating circumstances or not) while word is so flexible that you can never be sure of what the person really means. It can escape a mouth so quickly. There can be irony/sarcasm, etc. You cannot equate the two.

Besides, to my knowledge, Moscon denied any racist feature to his insult. He admitted to insulting. So the word "if" is still required. I won't comment about the bidon because it's useless. I'm bored with that. I'm much more angry with Moscon refusing to take turns with Alaphilippe than with the bidon issue.

It appears you are more inclined to believe the accused protestations of what he said than what he was actually sanctioned/punished for. He was punished for using a racial slur in insulting another rider. What part of that is confusing?

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/moscon-people-are-jealous-of-team-sky/#disqus_thread

People are jealous of Team Sky

“We’re leading the way and perhaps people don’t like that. An example is using the rollers after a race.

How old is he?

 

[Alexandre B.]

The guy has spent two years at Team Sky and speaks like he was there from the beginning.

 

[May0maniac]

Talk about a clickbait article, in the original article published in La Gazzetta team Sky and the Reichenbach incident were only a part of the interview, they left out all the personal stuff about his upbringing, being a farmer, living on the countryside, his doubts and so on, but you don't get a ton of clicks with a headline about that.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

Talk about a clickbait article, in the original article published in La Gazzetta team Sky and the Reichenbach incident were only a part of the interview, they left out all the personal stuff about his upbringing, being a farmer, living on the countryside, his doubts and so on, but you don't get a ton of clicks with a headline about that.

It's not clickbait when a news site extracts the newsworthy parts of an interview. Very few people care about Moscon's childhood or his background on a farm.

 

[Nirvana]

That's the origial interview.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Talk about a clickbait article, in the original article published in La Gazzetta team Sky and the Reichenbach incident were only a part of the interview, they left out all the personal stuff about his upbringing, being a farmer, living on the countryside, his doubts and so on, but you don't get a ton of clicks with a headline about that.

It's not clickbait when a news site extracts the newsworthy parts of an interview. Very few people care about Moscon's childhood or his background on a farm.

Moscon's name by itself is clickbait at this point.

 

[El Pistolero]

I'm surprised he still has a contract after not winning a single bike race (national championships don't count).

 

[pastronef]

Re:

I'm surprised he still has a contract after not winning a single bike race (national championships don't count).

do you remember Daniel Navarro, Jesus Hernandez, Benjamin Noval? how many wins they got while riding for Contador. ZERO
and they had contracts year after year

but whatever, useless to try to make you understand

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

I'm surprised he still has a contract after not winning a single bike race (national championships don't count).

do you remember Daniel Navarro, Jesus Hernandez, Benjamin Noval? how many wins they got while riding for Contador. ZERO
and they had contracts year after year

but whatever, useless to try to make you understand

Wouldn't have given them a contract either.

But at least they're not cheating* racists who make other cyclists crash on purpose. That usually helps.

* I'm talking about his DQ at the WC, not doping.

 

[huge]

Re: Re:

I'm surprised he still has a contract after not winning a single bike race (national championships don't count).

do you remember Daniel Navarro, Jesus Hernandez, Benjamin Noval? how many wins they got while riding for Contador. ZERO
and they had contracts year after year

but whatever, useless to try to make you understand

Wouldn't have given them a contract either.

But at least they're not cheating* racists who make other cyclists crash on purpose. That usually helps.

* I'm talking about his DQ at the WC, not doping.

No bias in this post. Not at all.

You would be a superlative cycling manager if you think Moscon shouldn't get a contract because of his performances... when basically any pro Tour team would like to have him in its roster... except perhaps FDJ :lol:

He is, without any doubts, one of the most talented young riders in the peloton.
Your comment shows once again how biased your judgement his.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

I'm surprised he still has a contract after not winning a single bike race (national championships don't count).

do you remember Daniel Navarro, Jesus Hernandez, Benjamin Noval? how many wins they got while riding for Contador. ZERO
and they had contracts year after year

but whatever, useless to try to make you understand

Wouldn't have given them a contract either.

But at least they're not cheating* racists who make other cyclists crash on purpose. That usually helps.

* I'm talking about his DQ at the WC, not doping.

No bias in this post. Not at all.

You would be a superlative cycling manager if you think Moscon shouldn't get a contract because of his performances... when basically any pro Tour team would like to have him in its roster... except perhaps FDJ :lol:

He is, without any doubts, one of the most talented young riders in the peloton.
Your comment shows once again how biased your judgement his.

Nope, this guy is bad news and will only cause problems.

Just like that other Italian before him. Ricardo Ricco I think he was called. That was one hell of a fantastic signing for Vacansoleil, no?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I'm surprised he still has a contract after not winning a single bike race (national championships don't count).

do you remember Daniel Navarro, Jesus Hernandez, Benjamin Noval? how many wins they got while riding for Contador. ZERO
and they had contracts year after year

but whatever, useless to try to make you understand

Dani Navarro actually won a Dauphiné stage while riding for Contador

 

[Tonton]

I would sign Benoot, now. Not this punk.

 

[oldcrank]

Re: Re:

I'm surprised he still has a contract after not winning a single bike race (national championships don't count).

do you remember Daniel Navarro, Jesus Hernandez, Benjamin Noval? how many wins they got while riding for Contador. ZERO
and they had contracts year after year

but whatever, useless to try to make you understand

Wouldn't have given them a contract either.

But at least they're not cheating* racists who make other cyclists crash on purpose. That usually helps.

* I'm talking about his DQ at the WC, not doping.

No bias in this post. Not at all.

You would be a superlative cycling manager if you think Moscon shouldn't get a contract because of his performances... when basically any pro Tour team would like to have him in its roster... except perhaps FDJ :lol:

He is, without any doubts, one of the most talented young riders in the peloton.
Your comment shows once again how biased your judgement his.

Nope, this guy is bad news and will only cause problems.

Just like that other Italian before him. Ricardo Ricco I think he was called. That was one hell of a fantastic signing for Vacansoleil, no?

Yes, Gianni was bad news for Alberto on stage three
of the Vuelta and caused him all kinds of problems.
I'm sure some fans will never forgive him for that.

 

[hrotha]

"Moscon shouldn't get a new contract because of his racism and unsportsmanship" = fine
"Moscon shouldn't get a new contract because he doesn't win races anyway" =

 

[Kazistuta]

IDGI

 

[Nirvana]

If you read the interview i posted above he clearly said that he already have a contract until 2019.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

If you read the interview i posted above he clearly said that he already have a contract until 2019.

...provided he doesn't have another incident like he had with Reza or even should the Reichenbach incident turns out to confirm what was alleged. Of course considering how Sky handled the Reza incident they would likely find a way to punish him minimally and keep him on their roster.

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

If you read the interview i posted above he clearly said that he already have a contract until 2019.

...provided he doesn't have another incident like he had with Reza or even should the Reichenbach incident turns out to confirm what was alleged. Of course considering how Sky handled the Reza incident they would likely find a way to punish him minimally and keep him on their roster.

In the case of another racial abuse they said that he'll be fired.
But probably he'll easily find a new team after the eventual suspension.

 

[Brullnux]

I would sign Benoot, now. Not this punk.

Moscon is clearly more talented than Benoot, so it would make more sense for a team to sign Moscon despite all his racial abuses etc especially considering most cycling teams and their owners have no ground to impose any sort of morality. He also isn't a 'punk' or particularly unpredictable like, say, Bouhanni, just a ***.

 

[jens_attacks]

his girlfriend dumped him so he's all yours, ladies.