Teams & Riders The Great Big Cycling Transfers, Extensions, and Rumours Thread

[Pozzovivo]

It wouldn’t be terrible if Cofidis were relegated providing they keep the sponsorship dollars, they would still get the invites to the WT races they want to do and with some luck it would force a change to the management structure at the team.

Yeah, and TDF invite seem likely, but it still makes the team a lot less attractive for many riders. A relegation could be a lot more manageble for Cofidis than for Astana etc but management almost never change...even with huge underperformance -and let's be fair. Cofidis not being among the 18 best teams is not a HUGE underperformance - it's more a lttle bit worse than expecation.

 

[Pozzovivo]

As long as they use Aranburu the right way (like you said, one day races, not a lot of stage races) he can easily score 2000+ points. Way better than Zingle imo, as he struggles in WT races, Aranburu doesn't.

Well I agree with the first part - but Zingle is a very good rider. I think Visma LAB will make him a WT race winner already next year. He's had almost zero support from increadbly weak teams in a lot of races and still bags top 3 like he's WVA.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

How short on cash is movistar then? They are sinking in squad strength year after year. Also Lazkano gone I hear.

Cofidis have significant interests in the Spanish market and so want some relatively prominent Spanish riders. With Fernández and Lastra hardly leadership material at this stage, and the Izagirre brothers the wrong side of 35 and Herrada now 34 as well, it makes sense to spend out on a Spanish rider who is good in the kind of terrain that a load of those French 1.1 and 2.1 races are rife with.

As for Movistar, they've never had all that high a budget, they were never a top budget team, they just were very prominent due to having Valverde and having backed the right horse when picking Quintana out of Colombia - they used to be able to do well because fewer people were scouting Latin America for riders and then the collapse of the alternatives in the Spanish market left them essentially able to take their pick of anybody coming through the Spanish scene for a few years. They then made some questionable decisions like breaking the bank for Landa, and backing Mas as their main horse, a guy who, while he will get solid GC results, isn't going to be banking you many stage wins and consolation prizes on the way if his GC bid fails. They also got unlucky in a good few ways - they had Carlos Rodríguez coming in, before Brailsford realised the disaster Ineos' offseason was becoming, stepped back in and fought tooth and nail to keep him; they had a successful integration of Miguel Ángel López before he had an epic meltdown at the Vuelta and had to be traded away (in the end that was a bullet dodged, but it cost them a fair bit in terms of UCI points in the interim); Richard Carapaz was poached away from them before they had a chance to enter negotiations thanks to Acquadro's bad faith dealings (this caused then to also cease to deal with him for a period, which cost them many a good Latin American prospect as well); they had Igor Arrieta on lock, but then he looked elsewhere when turning pro after they fired his dad for being a terrible DS.

Meanwhile some mismanagement and some rather unimpressive development opportunities have meant a lot of talented young Spaniards tend to prefer to go elsewhere in the first instance before circling back to Abarcá later; meanwhile the fact riders like Abner González and Iván Romeo have been promoted direct from the amateur scene to Movistar while riders in the team's own feeder end up at Kern Pharma has meant that even the team's own internal feeder organisation is not as attractive to young talents, because if they back themselves and go well enough in an external amateur team, they're liable to get straight to the WT setup.

Plus I'm sure the budget for the women's team being increased may have also had an impact on the men's team's budget too. Annemiek van Vleuten likely wasn't particularly cheap and, though you would expect not as expensive as Annemiek, Liane Lippert probably wasn't either.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Cofidis have significant interests in the Spanish market and so want some relatively prominent Spanish riders. With Fernández and Lastra hardly leadership material at this stage, and the Izagirre brothers the wrong side of 35 and Herrada now 34 as well, it makes sense to spend out on a Spanish rider who is good in the kind of terrain that a load of those French 1.1 and 2.1 races are rife with.

As for Movistar, they've never had all that high a budget, they were never a top budget team, they just were very prominent due to having Valverde and having backed the right horse when picking Quintana out of Colombia - they used to be able to do well because fewer people were scouting Latin America for riders and then the collapse of the alternatives in the Spanish market left them essentially able to take their pick of anybody coming through the Spanish scene for a few years. They then made some questionable decisions like breaking the bank for Landa, and backing Mas as their main horse, a guy who, while he will get solid GC results, isn't going to be banking you many stage wins and consolation prizes on the way if his GC bid fails. They also got unlucky in a good few ways - they had Carlos Rodríguez coming in, before Brailsford realised the disaster Ineos' offseason was becoming, stepped back in and fought tooth and nail to keep him; they had a successful integration of Miguel Ángel López before he had an epic meltdown at the Vuelta and had to be traded away (in the end that was a bullet dodged, but it cost them a fair bit in terms of UCI points in the interim); Richard Carapaz was poached away from them before they had a chance to enter negotiations thanks to Acquadro's bad faith dealings (this caused then to also cease to deal with him for a period, which cost them many a good Latin American prospect as well); they had Igor Arrieta on lock, but then he looked elsewhere when turning pro after they fired his dad for being a terrible DS.

Meanwhile some mismanagement and some rather unimpressive development opportunities have meant a lot of talented young Spaniards tend to prefer to go elsewhere in the first instance before circling back to Abarcá later; meanwhile the fact riders like Abner González and Iván Romeo have been promoted direct from the amateur scene to Movistar while riders in the team's own feeder end up at Kern Pharma has meant that even the team's own internal feeder organisation is not as attractive to young talents, because if they back themselves and go well enough in an external amateur team, they're liable to get straight to the WT setup.

Plus I'm sure the budget for the women's team being increased may have also had an impact on the men's team's budget too. Annemiek van Vleuten likely wasn't particularly cheap and, though you would expect not as expensive as Annemiek, Liane Lippert probably wasn't either.

Great comment about Spanish market and excellent summary of Movistar’s transfer (mis)fortune. I must say I agree with a lot. But where did all the valverde and MAL money go when they left? If it didn’t go to Carlos Rod and Ineos bought him out, then some cash for the big guns like Lazkano must be there, no? I fear they are making themselves a bit irrelevant with semi notable riders like Cavagna, Formolo and Guireirro that never ever wins.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Meanwhile some mismanagement and some rather unimpressive development opportunities have meant a lot of talented young Spaniards tend to prefer to go elsewhere in the first instance before circling back to Abarcá later; meanwhile the fact riders like Abner González and Iván Romeo have been promoted direct from the amateur scene to Movistar while riders in the team's own feeder end up at Kern Pharma has meant that even the team's own internal feeder organisation is not as attractive to young talents, because if they back themselves and go well enough in an external amateur team, they're liable to get straight to the WT setup.µ

Abner Gonzalez is such a waste of talent by Movistar.
Dude finished 5th and 4th in 2 one-day races three days apart in his neopro year. He's clearly looking like a guy that could get you points in those races and he looks like he excells in those aswell. So you would assume your priority would be to help him develop his engine, some classics and a GT. But no, second year he finishes SanRemo in the Kristoff group and finishes a solid 70th in Amstel. He rides 2 more onedays in France, otherwise? Stage races. No GT. Pretty much the same the next year.
In three years with Movistar this dude didn't ride a GT which could've seriously helped him with his engine. He ends up on Efapel and whilst being 23 he podiums the Volta and wins a stage.

Do Movistar just hate Americans who aren't Colombian or Ecuadorian? They're wasting Vinicius Rangel's talent aswell. Dude finished 9th in Leuven WC U23. Behind guys like Nys and Penhoet, but ahead of Bittner, Watson, Strong and Zana. And that's the only UCI race he rode that year. Dude didn't have the opportunities Europeans had during those Covid-years. And here we have Movistar doing another SHITE job developping him.

I swear at this point Tietema would do a better job at developping talent than them.
Oh, and with the Cavagna article this year, I'd choose Astana over them in the current climate.

Edit: Didn't know the filter wouldn't pick up shite. Ah well

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Great comment about Spanish market and excellent summary of Movistar’s transfer (mis)fortune. I must say I agree with a lot. But where did all the valverde and MAL money go when they left? If it didn’t go to Carlos Rod and Ineos bought him out, then some cash for the big guns like Lazkano must be there, no? I fear they are making themselves a bit irrelevant with semi notable riders like Cavagna, Formolo and Guireirro that never ever wins.

Essentially, though not portrayed as such, Movistar and Astana essentially did a trade at the end of 2021; Movistar sent MAL back to Astana in exchange for Gorka Izagirre, Álex Aranburu and Óscar Rodríguez.

As for the Carlos Rodríguez money, your guess is as good as mine, but then they couldn't afford to match what Ineos were offering so it won't have exactly been something you can pinpoint to a specific rider or anything, although taking a flyer on persuading Nairoman to return will have accounted for part of it.

I'd say though that the team is doing a fair bit of - and some of those riders you name are part of it - rebuilding the kind of squad that they ought to have to support a leader like Mas or to tempt a rider to come there; breaking the bank for Landa and the disastrous attempts to interweave the trident leadership cost them massively in terms of those mid-level, middle of the train domestiques and super-domestiques. In the last few years you've seen guys like Andrey Amador, Marc Soler, Carlos Verona, Jonathan Castroviejo and the Herrada brothers all leave. Those guys who can do a solid backup GC at smaller races, be there to help with the hard yards but who aren't going to be GC leaders themselves. Preferably strong enough to power over all terrains, rather than a Winner Anacona or an Iván Sosa type that only come to life in a certain type of stage. It's become something that they lack where it was once a strength. Guys like Formolo and Guerreiro fit that role perfectly, while Javier Romo has fit perfectly into that kind of position as has Pelayo Sánchez Mayo.

It's just that while before they had a bonanza leadership with zero depth, now they have depth with almost zero leadership.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Abner Gonzalez is such a waste of talent by Movistar.
Dude finished 5th and 4th in 2 one-day races three days apart in his neopro year. He's clearly looking like a guy that could get you points in those races and he looks like he excells in those aswell. So you would assume your priority would be to help him develop his engine, some classics and a GT. But no, second year he finishes SanRemo in the Kristoff group and finishes a solid 70th in Amstel. He rides 2 more onedays in France, otherwise? Stage races. No GT. Pretty much the same the next year.
In three years with Movistar this dude didn't ride a GT which could've seriously helped him with his engine. He ends up on Efapel and whilst being 23 he podiums the Volta and wins a stage.

Do Movistar just hate Americans who aren't Colombian or Ecuadorian? They're wasting Vinicius Rangel's talent aswell. Dude finished 9th in Leuven WC U23. Behind guys like Nys and Penhoet, but ahead of Bittner, Watson, Strong and Zana. And that's the only UCI race he rode that year. Dude didn't have the opportunities Europeans had during those Covid-years. And here we have Movistar doing another SHITE job developping him.

I swear at this point Tietema would do a better job at developping talent than them.
Oh, and with the Cavagna article this year, I'd choose Astana over them in the current climate.

Edit: Didn't know the filter wouldn't pick up shite. Ah well

I know he got sick in 2022, but it looks like they just gave up on him like, as soon as that happened. I mean, he came 6th in the Volta as a 20yo neo-pro and top 20 on Mont Ventoux in his first pro stage race. Finishing on the same time as Carlos Rodríguez, who is only four months younger than him, in fact. 2021 and the fact the team went to the Volta, which they never normally do, makes it look like they had some significant plans. After all, the Volta being 11 days including a rest day, some hard work, but less depth than a WT péloton, looks like a good test of recovery and of top level climbing potential.

I don't think that the team has some kind of problem with non-Colombian/Ecuadorian LatAm riders, but I think it's more to do with the scene at home if I'm honest. Both of those guys were guys who did not ride for Lizarte/Finisher/Galibier, the Movistar feeder, and were signed in externally. Both roder for Telco'm in their final amateur years. Unzué and his central command have always been very cautious with young riders in a way that is overly coddling and are so scared of Remmert Wielinga'ing a rider that they Ángel Madrazo them instead, keeping them on a leash so tightly that they never get the chance to develop and learn. Riders who come in from their own setup, they've got a better handle on the level of, and riders they hire in from abroad often come across later in the development path or have come through teams that are to all intents and purposes pro, like Quintana coming from Boyacá es para Vivirla. And even then, the completely disastrous mis-step with Argiro Ospina led them to treat even Richard Carapaz with kid gloves, signing him from Colombia but then putting him through a year in the Spanish amateur scene with their own coaches before they trusted him to turn pro.

I think what they are trying to do with the likes of Rangel is to keep doing what they used to, but they're having to burn a WT contract spot to get those riders into their midst in a way they didn't have to before (with other WT teams now signing riders ever younger, and the Spanish scene having rebounded in terms of number of options meaning they no longer have almost a monopoly and can automatically therefore get first dibs on the best amateur riders in the country), so they can't give them time with the amateur team coaches and instead are wasting them away on these races the team doesn't care about or smaller races and just hoping they develop in lesser WT and .PRO races to become the project they can finish off at the WT level.

 

[Jeeer]

Source: Eurosport
Alaphilippe to Tudor, contract 3 seasons, 2 million Euro per saison

 

[Pozzovivo]

Source: Eurosport
Alaphilippe to Tudor, contract 3 seasons, 2 million Euro per saison

What do you think this means for TDF spots? Uno X or Totalenergies out?

 

[RedheadDane]

What do you think this means for TDF spots? Uno X or Totalenergies out?

Yeah, I think if ASO had to choose between Total or Uno-X, they'd totally pick Total.
Though, I don't actually know what the situation is regarding the Automatic Invite Thing.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Source: Eurosport
Alaphilippe to Tudor, contract 3 seasons, 2 million Euro per saison

Rip Uno-X

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Yeah, I think if ASO had to choose between Total or Uno-X, they'd totally pick Total.
Though, I don't actually know what the situation is regarding the Automatic Invite Thing.

If only there were ways to find out, but I guess we'll never know.

Spoiler

As things stand, which will most likely also be the situation at the end of the season, Israel and Lotto will secure invites to all WT races, while Uno-X will get invites to one-day races only.

 

[Hell-G]

Confirmed: Finn Fisher-Black (UAE Team Emirates) to Red Bull-BORA-hansgrohe.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1823634698888679645

View: https://x.com/RBH_ProCycling/status/1823634698888679645

 

[Offline]

Confirmed: Finn Fisher-Black (UAE Team Emirates) to Red Bull-BORA-hansgrohe.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1823634698888679645

View: https://x.com/RBH_ProCycling/status/1823634698888679645

22 years old and have been signed by Visma, UAE and Red Bull!

 

[velaso montador]

Thats a solid signing from Bora. He can be a very nice piece in a proper GC team. Two way player which only will get better presumably

 

[laarsland]

22 years old and have been signed by Visma, UAE and Red Bull!

Another 11 years and he can get Israel off his bingo card as well.

 

[Pozzovivo]

I hear rumours of Emu Buchmann - That would be the final nail in the coffin for me. He is terrible as a leader and worse as a teammate. He averages about 400 points a season, and he is very expensive. Please God, no.

Emu confirmed to Cofidis.

I'm dead. I'm gone.

 

[Mayomaniac]

22 years old and have been signed by Visma, UAE and Red Bull!

Do we know who was his coach at UAE?
They could be poaching some know-how...

 

[perico]

Cofidis have significant interests in the Spanish market and so want some relatively prominent Spanish riders. With Fernández and Lastra hardly leadership material at this stage, and the Izagirre brothers the wrong side of 35 and Herrada now 34 as well, it makes sense to spend out on a Spanish rider who is good in the kind of terrain that a load of those French 1.1 and 2.1 races are rife with.

As for Movistar, they've never had all that high a budget, they were never a top budget team, they just were very prominent due to having Valverde and having backed the right horse when picking Quintana out of Colombia - they used to be able to do well because fewer people were scouting Latin America for riders and then the collapse of the alternatives in the Spanish market left them essentially able to take their pick of anybody coming through the Spanish scene for a few years. They then made some questionable decisions like breaking the bank for Landa, and backing Mas as their main horse, a guy who, while he will get solid GC results, isn't going to be banking you many stage wins and consolation prizes on the way if his GC bid fails. They also got unlucky in a good few ways - they had Carlos Rodríguez coming in, before Brailsford realised the disaster Ineos' offseason was becoming, stepped back in and fought tooth and nail to keep him; they had a successful integration of Miguel Ángel López before he had an epic meltdown at the Vuelta and had to be traded away (in the end that was a bullet dodged, but it cost them a fair bit in terms of UCI points in the interim); Richard Carapaz was poached away from them before they had a chance to enter negotiations thanks to Acquadro's bad faith dealings (this caused then to also cease to deal with him for a period, which cost them many a good Latin American prospect as well); they had Igor Arrieta on lock, but then he looked elsewhere when turning pro after they fired his dad for being a terrible DS.

Meanwhile some mismanagement and some rather unimpressive development opportunities have meant a lot of talented young Spaniards tend to prefer to go elsewhere in the first instance before circling back to Abarcá later; meanwhile the fact riders like Abner González and Iván Romeo have been promoted direct from the amateur scene to Movistar while riders in the team's own feeder end up at Kern Pharma has meant that even the team's own internal feeder organisation is not as attractive to young talents, because if they back themselves and go well enough in an external amateur team, they're liable to get straight to the WT setup.

Plus I'm sure the budget for the women's team being increased may have also had an impact on the men's team's budget too. Annemiek van Vleuten likely wasn't particularly cheap and, though you would expect not as expensive as Annemiek, Liane Lippert probably wasn't either.

To just add a footnote to Libertine’s great explanation, Movistar also suffered a few set backs when it came to developing their next generation of GC riders. They signed two Spanish Avenir winners who flopped as GC riders (though Marc Soler is a great rider), and then Jaime Roson was signed in 2019 with the expectation that he would be a real GC force only to have failed a clinical matter the previous season.

 

[Offline]

Do we know who was his coach at UAE?
They could be poaching some know-how...

My guess would be Kevin Poulton or Jeroen Swart but don't know

 

[RedheadDane]

TDT being sneaky...

I can only assume they mean Amdi.

 

[Bolder]

Thats a solid signing from Bora. He can be a very nice piece in a proper GC team. Two way player which only will get better presumably

I’d like to know why UAE didn’t keep him.

 

[Offline]

I’d like to know why UAE didn’t keep him.

Because he don’t wants too. You can re-sign a rider how don’t wants too

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Saw a message on twitter that Mauricio Moreira disbanded his contract? My auto-translator didn't make much of it. Transfer or should I go to a different part of this forum?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Saw a message on twitter that Mauricio Moreira disbanded his contract? My auto-translator didn't make much of it. Transfer or should I go to a different part of this forum?

TBF it may be more benign than that. He was clearly not in a good way in the Volta, literally collapsed on the bike, his DS basically announced that he was now surplus to requirements and his team manager publicly slated him. There was clearly animosity or disagreement between Mauri and the team before the Volta - while given his last couple of seasons there's plenty of reason to suspect that another part of the forum may be where we're headed, it's also very plausible that it's just a termination by mutual consent and he'll crop up on another Portuguese team or go back to South America or crop up somewhere random on the Asia Tour or something.