Yeah. I know. I keep saying that it’s bordering on gene doping as the molecular structure is changing. Give it another name as it’s beyond regular pharma doping.King Boonen said:That’s not gene doping.
The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) have published the 2018 list of prohibited substances, with a number of minor changes being announced.
Approved by the WADA Executive Committee at their meeting in Paris last Sunday (September 24), the list designates what substances and methods are prohibited both in and out-of-competition.
Alcohol has been removed from the prohibited list, with the substance having previously been banned in four sports.
Benotti is correct. Class S0 is basically WADAs catch all class.There are no grey area substances really.King Boonen said:Actually, the WADA code doesn’t state that. If that were the case you could argue employing a dietician is doping.Benotti69 said:I think WADA and UCI's code covers so called grey area PEDs, ie illegal. Taking anything to enhance performance is illegal. Just because UCI doesn't police the sport doesn't make it legal.Merckx index said:No, it's not gene doping. These substances are simply ligands, like other drugs, that bind to and activate specific kinds of receptors. You have to keep taking them. Gene doping is forever.thehog said:Cycle Telmisartan with Astaxanthin which is also legal. Astaxanthin is a PPAR-gamma antagonist (and PPAR-alpha agonist) you can get close to the effects of GW. Both here are boarding on gene doping. Well to be honest it is gene doping, as molecular structure is being changed in the human body. 5 days on, 2 days off with he best part being the huge gains are when you cycle off Telmisartan, thus never needing to declare it on your doping form.
That said, very interesting stuff, hog. I guess anything that's legal can be classified as a marginal gain, with the margins quite extensive in this case.
S0 Non-Approved Substances
Any pharmacological substance which is not
addressed by any of the subsequent sections of the
List and with no current approval by any governmental
regulatory health authority for human therapeutic use
(e.g. drugs under pre-clinical or clinical development
or discontinued, designer drugs, substances approved
only for veterinary use) is prohibited at all times.
That's possibly the most clueless thing I've seen posted while actually quoting the WADA code/prohibited list. I mean, it literally says non-approved substances and then defines them.samhocking said:Benotti is correct. Class S0 is basically WADAs catch all class.There are no grey area substances really.King Boonen said:Actually, the WADA code doesn’t state that. If that were the case you could argue employing a dietician is doping.Benotti69 said:I think WADA and UCI's code covers so called grey area PEDs, ie illegal. Taking anything to enhance performance is illegal. Just because UCI doesn't police the sport doesn't make it legal.Merckx index said:No, it's not gene doping. These substances are simply ligands, like other drugs, that bind to and activate specific kinds of receptors. You have to keep taking them. Gene doping is forever.thehog said:Cycle Telmisartan with Astaxanthin which is also legal. Astaxanthin is a PPAR-gamma antagonist (and PPAR-alpha agonist) you can get close to the effects of GW. Both here are boarding on gene doping. Well to be honest it is gene doping, as molecular structure is being changed in the human body. 5 days on, 2 days off with he best part being the huge gains are when you cycle off Telmisartan, thus never needing to declare it on your doping form.
That said, very interesting stuff, hog. I guess anything that's legal can be classified as a marginal gain, with the margins quite extensive in this case.
S0 Non-Approved Substances
Any pharmacological substance which is not
addressed by any of the subsequent sections of the
List and with no current approval by any governmental
regulatory health authority for human therapeutic use
(e.g. drugs under pre-clinical or clinical development
or discontinued, designer drugs, substances approved
only for veterinary use) is prohibited at all times.
I'm a bit slow today Sam, so could you explain the bolded part in simple English and whether that includes Tramadol? TIA.samhocking said:Benotti is correct. Class S0 is basically WADAs catch all class.There are no grey area substances really.
S0 Non-Approved Substances
Any pharmacological substance which is not
addressed by any of the subsequent sections of the
List and with no current approval by any governmental
regulatory health authority for human therapeutic use
(e.g. drugs under pre-clinical or clinical development
or discontinued, designer drugs, substances approved
only for veterinary use) is prohibited at all times.
(And I thought I had my slow head on today...)samhocking said:Tramadol is approved and not prohibited so it isn't a Class S0 Substance.
As for the bolded part, it's simply listing all types of non-approved substances as prohibited at all times.
I was answering a specific point from Benotti. You jumped in with some strawman discussion about non-approved substances which were never mentioned by Benotti. I really don’t see why this is so difficult... anyone would think it is purposeful...samhocking said:That's not how anti-doping works. If only lol!
You're confusing the grey area of rules with substances. The two are not related. Doping is a legal matter, not what is in your body.
This is getting even sillier...samhocking said:S0 covers anything not in S1-S5. It's simple to understand. Tramadol is not within any class, it's not a grey area until it's placed within a class and then the rules surround its use make it a grey area.
Sam enough already. S0 covers drugs in development or other drugs not authorised for human use. It has nothing to do with what you are claiming it means.samhocking said:S0 covers anything not in S1-S5. It's simple to understand. Tramadol is not within any class, it's not a grey area until it's placed within a class and then the rules surrounding its permitted use can make it a grey area.
Fine by me. Name one legal reason Tramadol can't be used within competition according to the rules without using ethical reason to make it a grey area.King Boonen said:I kind of want this to continue, just out of morbid fascination...
That’s it, I’m buying JCB stock.samhocking said:Fine by me. Name one legal reason Tramadol can't be used within competition according to the rules without using ethical reason.King Boonen said:I kind of want this to continue, just out of morbid fascination...
This point is interesting, because NFL player Julian Edelman just got sanctioned, and his defense is that the NFL doesn't even know what the substance he was caught with is. They can't identify it. What they presumably can do, though, is claim it's non-approved.samhocking said:The only grey area in anti-doping is within the WADA rules allowing prohibited substances to be used and within S0 class because substances in S0 are not necessarily detectable.
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