The It's No Picnic PostNL Thread

[Anderis]

Betting companies should start accepting bets on who will be the next rider to cancel his contract with DSM.

 

[Bonimenier]

It's funny how talking to Benoot was a reason for Van Wilder to choose DSM over LTS, and now they are both out.

 

[Monte Serra]

Team boss Iwan Spekenbrink responds to the commotion. He doesn't say that many new things. Mostly repeats the statements previously given by his underlings Kemna and Winston. And sticks to the familiar dogma's.

Some quotes (slightly edited Google translate):
“We don't want to have to manage too many negative things. Commitment is one of our main pillars. And that is not only a right, but also an obligation. But to come back to your opening question, it can therefore be perfectly possible that a rider has a history [of being less commited], before they leave. That a line has already been crossed.”

“In all team sports, there are times when an athlete is dropped from the roster or even pushed for an outbound transfer to protect group dynamics and the passion to deliver. Usually those moments are valuable and even contribute to the development of the athlete. But sometimes not, and then we know and accept that it will end in an exit.”

“It's easy to just give someone what they want and keep the athlete happy that way. But above all we want to keep the entire group satisfied, that strives for a common goal. That is why we occasionally draw such a line. So in essence it is no different than in all other team sports, but in cycling it is indeed a bit more unusual.”

Are you also self-critical if a year – such as 2021 – has not been good?
Spekenbrink: “We question ourselves every day. That is our performance model. To be clear, we have no doubts about our philosophy. But then there is also the implementation. Then we wonder whether we have explained it correctly. Whether everyone is in the right place. Of course we make mistakes. Fortunately, not everything goes perfectly. Because how are you supposed to get started the next day?”

Full interview in Dutch:
https://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/i...streng-op-zijn-is-respect-hebben-voor-elkaar/

 

[BlueRoads]

"To be clear, we have no doubts about our philosophy."

Yeah, that's exactly the problem.
...
What a bunch of nonsense. What exactly is "the entire group" when it's not just a few rotten apples falling off but only a few smaller ones keep hanging on the tree? And having an opinion on things is a "lack of commitment", sure.
Well, good thing is every young rider should know by now what they are dealing with, if they are willing to accept this it's their decision.

 

[Leinster]

Are you also self-critical if a year – such as 2021 – has not been good?
Spekenbrink: “We question ourselves every day. That is our performance model. To be clear, we have no doubts about our philosophy. But then there is also the implementation. Then we wonder whether we have explained it correctly. Whether everyone is in the right place. Of course we make mistakes. Fortunately, not everything goes perfectly. Because how are you supposed to get started the next day?”

It's very clear that the philosophy is either incorrect, or being explained incorrectly, or both.

Iwan Spekenbrink reacts to ANOTHER rider leaving his contract early;

 

[Tim Cahill]

2020s Lenny Kamna, now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time.

LIghts up a pipe

I just miss the old days man, when it was Lenny Kamna and Jai Hindley and Young Tao and all those DSM TDF stage wins.

 

[Arnout]

The most tragic element of this episode is the statement Benoot makes on the team website:

"I have good memories here at Team DSM, with some great opportunities and I have learned a lot. It’s fun to be part of this team, but it’s also demanding. That is not a negative towards the team; the many staff and specialists, as well as team mates are all really passionate, that’s why riders can get a lot out of themselves. I just wasn’t fully able to go for it together. I wish the team, my colleagues and team mates all the best.”

This completely sounds like a cover your ass from the Team DSM management who probably forced Benoot into allowing this statement to be made in return for reduced / cancelled financial penalty of early contract termination. Considering the swift new contract for Benoot I consider it highly unlikely this was at the initiative of DSM.

Anyway, typical Dutch attitude from Team DSM. Stubborn, arrogant and always knowing better. They'll probably get a post in the new Dutch government.

 

[Netserk]

2020s Lenny Kamna, now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time.

LIghts up a pipe

I just miss the old days man, when it was Lenny Kamna and Jai Hindley and Young Tao and all those DSM TDF stage wins.

The old days of Storer at the Vuelta?

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Seems the only way to be happy on this disaster of a team is to be French and only have previous experience riding for French teams.

Let's see where bardet goes for 2023

 

[AlfaLum]

The most tragic element of this episode is the statement Benoot makes on the team website:

"I have good memories here at Team DSM, with some great opportunities and I have learned a lot. It’s fun to be part of this team, but it’s also demanding. That is not a negative towards the team; the many staff and specialists, as well as team mates are all really passionate, that’s why riders can get a lot out of themselves. I just wasn’t fully able to go for it together. I wish the team, my colleagues and team mates all the best.”

This completely sounds like a cover your ass from the Team DSM management who probably forced Benoot into allowing this statement to be made in return for reduced / cancelled financial penalty of early contract termination. Considering the swift new contract for Benoot I consider it highly unlikely this was at the initiative of DSM.

Anyway, typical Dutch attitude from Team DSM. Stubborn, arrogant and always knowing better. They'll probably get a post in the new Dutch government.

But the situation is not typically Dutch. Because in a typical situation the Dutch really do know better.

 

[BlueRoads]

I don't think the Dutch are especially arrogant in general...
but the statement is
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa, may I leave now, please?

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

I don't think the Dutch are especially arrogant in general...
but the statement is
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa, may I leave now, please?

The Dutch nog arrogant.... ? Jezus ! Have you ever been abroad, travelling with or being in the same hotel or camping sites with Dutch people. And more specifically as far as cycling is concerned. Ever read the (readers)comments on the Dutch cyclingsite "Wielerflits" ? Unimaginable. Often hateful. And extreme denigrating to non-Dutch cyclists and team managers. With personal attacks, reference to physique (dwarf, little ***...). Of course, you have to understand the Duch language (or try to translate it with Google translate). But believe me, it's a style you won't find anywhere else in forums. Except sometimes at the French forum of L'Equipe.

Of course, this is a generalization. But it is not the attitude of a minority.

 

[BlueRoads]

The Dutch nog arrogant.... ? Jezus ! Have you ever been abroad, travelling with or being in the same hotel or camping sites with Dutch people. And more specifically as far as cycling is concerned. Ever read the (readers)comments on the Dutch cyclingsite "Wielerflits" ? Unimaginable. Often hateful. And extreme denigrating to non-Dutch cyclists and team managers. With personal attacks, reference to physique (dwarf, little ***...). Of course, you have to understand the Duch language (or try to translate it with Google translate). But believe me, it's a style you won't find anywhere else in forums. Except sometimes at the French forum of L'Equipe.

Of course, this is a generalization. But it is not the attitude of a minority.

Lol, yeah, I've had quite a bit of contact with Dutch people... admittedly not on Dutch cycling forums.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

The Dutch nog arrogant.... ? Jezus ! Have you ever been abroad, travelling with or being in the same hotel or camping sites with Dutch people. And more specifically as far as cycling is concerned. Ever read the (readers)comments on the Dutch cyclingsite "Wielerflits" ? Unimaginable. Often hateful. And extreme denigrating to non-Dutch cyclists and team managers. With personal attacks, reference to physique (dwarf, little ***...). Of course, you have to understand the Duch language (or try to translate it with Google translate). But believe me, it's a style you won't find anywhere else in forums. Except sometimes at the French forum of L'Equipe.

Of course, this is a generalization. But it is not the attitude of a minority.

You do realise that a sizeable chunk of WF posters is Flemish, and that the behaviour you refer to doesn't apply to the vast majority of people on there anyway? The fact that the chunk of the Dutch population who think they know better than anyone else is probably larger than average shouldn't be generalized to the Dutch population as a whole, your claim that it's the attitude of a majority has absolutely zero evidence to back it up; snapshots from places like Albufeira and Kirchberg are about as representative for the average Dutch person as your typical English-dominated Spanish party town is for the average Briton, or a Southern trailer town is for the average American. Moreover, both of those stereotypes are also often used to make generalising statements, whether they're about a part of the population (Southern, young, 'lesser-educated') or the country's population as a whole.

Look, I don't really post much on WF anymore, but that's not because of widespread arrogance and hatefulness, rather because it simply isn't there.

Oh, and on the subject of arrogance and hatefulness towards foreign riders...

I don't think you follow cycling.

Your lack of knowledge of photo-finish technology, linked to your stubbornness, seams to lead to stupidity.

Then why are you writing such crap? You were totally wrong. To correct your post afterwards.... Think twice before writing such untruths.
And can you also respond with arguments why Lefevere would not be the best cycling manager in the world. Regardless of whether or not you would find that a sympathetic man.

Why should "Pat" be hurt. No doubt it's the best team manager (ever). Caring for his riders. And creating a fantastic atmosphere in the team. But the behaviour of Bennett is shameful. No communication at all since months. He didn't even report if he had surgery on his knee. He won't let the team know if he's training, let alone sharing his data. But he is now paid every month without riding, while no one knows what he's doing. And now he is suddenly going to participate in the European championship, again without giving any sign of life. The only reason he he will start is to be without competition within three months. So, he could be payed another three months. A really cowardly attitude. And what to think of the attitude of the Irish Cycling Federation ? They known Bennett is not able to compete. But they still select him.

But hey, in the end Bennett punishes himself. Months without competition. Returning in 2022 to a team where he could not settle before. And one year older, already in the 30. I don't think Bennett will reach the top level again... especially not with this unprofessional attitude

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Any half-assed journalist would by now have started his round to interview former employees of DSM, just to conclude those who would have the most interesting tales to tell (those who wanted to leave before the contract ends), had to sign NDA's. And any half-assed journalist would ask himself why.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Any half-assed journalist would by now have started his round to interview former employees of DSM, just to conclude those who would have the most interesting tales to tell (those who wanted to leave before the contract ends), had to sign NDA's. And any half-assed journalist would ask himself why.

Just like in politics, most high-profile sports journalists and their employers value their connections far too much to open a cesspit.

 

[Netserk]

Most stereotypes are somewhat accurate (you can look up stereotype accuracy), and generalisations is how knowledge works. What’s the issue? Yes, the Dutch are arrogant, so what?

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Most stereotypes are somewhat accurate (you can look up stereotype accuracy), and generalisations is how knowledge works. What’s the issue? Yes, the Dutch are arrogant, so what?

Primarily, the claim that the average Dutch person is an *** who is hateful and derogatory towards others. There's a difference between just stereotyping (accurately or not), which I wouldn't have commented on and haven't when it's occurred in this thread, and that.

 

[BlueRoads]

Most stereotypes are somewhat accurate (you can look up stereotype accuracy), and generalisations is how knowledge works. What’s the issue? Yes, the Dutch are arrogant, so what?

I have never even heard that stereotype before in my life. And believe me, Germans make a lot of jokes about the Dutch.

 

[tobydawq]

I have never even heard that stereotype before in my life. And believe me, Germans make a lot of jokes about the Dutch.

I didn't think Germans made jokes

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

The most tragic element of this episode is the statement Benoot makes on the team website:

"I have good memories here at Team DSM, with some great opportunities and I have learned a lot. It’s fun to be part of this team, but it’s also demanding. That is not a negative towards the team; the many staff and specialists, as well as team mates are all really passionate, that’s why riders can get a lot out of themselves. I just wasn’t fully able to go for it together. I wish the team, my colleagues and team mates all the best.”

This completely sounds like a cover your ass from the Team DSM management who probably forced Benoot into allowing this statement to be made in return for reduced / cancelled financial penalty of early contract termination. Considering the swift new contract for Benoot I consider it highly unlikely this was at the initiative of DSM.

lmao - this is pure cringe.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over that if I were Benoot. No one takes DSM's media statements seriously.

 

[Netserk]

I didn't think Germans made jokes

You know what we say about Germans when we talk of Swedes. »Swedes are Germans dressed as humans.«

And yes, Danes are rude.

 

[AlfaLum]

I think only people from Belgium find Dutch people arrogant. And that is because Dutch people are just better at almost anything. Except cycling maybe, so could the wrong forum to make this statement.

 

[tobydawq]

I think only people from Belgium find Dutch people arrogant. And that is because Dutch people are just better at almost anything that

I think the joke suffers a bit from the missing ending of the sentence.

 

[AlfaLum]

I think the joke suffers a bit from the missing ending of the sentence.

I agree, but the forum keeps running into an error