The morality and ethics of Anarchism

[aphronesis]

Re: Re:

Overcoming the self doesn't mean exiting the social. You seem confused about this when in fact it's central to "your" thread topic.

Yes, nothing from the 19c is relevant now. On that score origins aside, it's frequently disenfranchised men suffering from hysteria these days. Even if that weren't the case I try to avoid weak people and their needs.

On that score: later.

(Of coures you're talking about something much bigger than me: yourself.)

 

[Starstruck]

Re: Re:

Overcoming the self doesn't mean exiting the social. You seem confused about this when in fact it's central to "your" thread topic.

Yes, nothing from the 19c is relevant now. On that score origins aside, it's frequently disenfranchised men suffering from hysteria these days. Even if that weren't the case I try to avoid weak people and their needs.

On that score: later.

(Of coures you're talking about something much bigger than me: yourself.)

By exiting the social, by being alone to fend for oneself emphasizes the need for humans to be social. It boils down what's truly important. That you've never experienced that is exemplified by how you've misconstrued my intent. It's a cross cultural phenomenon as it gets essential.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZQ5jbLlGf0&index=112&list=PLob1mZcVWOajh6bjAS-I13a4bxu8vBsZW

I know, you're an American elitist despite your pretenses of anarchism.

p.s. weak people don't survive some of the *** I've been through. There are plenty of suicide stats. that attest to that. Wrong again Plato.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=the+academy&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjiwunKoajNAhUL72MKHegMDekQ_AUIBygC#tbm=isch&q=the+academy+painting+raphael&imgrc=qfIZgDcjBBGCQM%3A

 

[aphronesis]

“What do you know about me, given that I believe in secrecy? … If I stick where I am, if I don’t travel around, like anyone else I make my inner journeys that I can only measure by my emotions, and express very obliquely and circuitously in what I write. … Arguments from one’s own privileged experience are bad and reactionary arguments."

http://www.generation-online.org/p/fpdeleuze4.htm

 

[Starstruck]

So here's the story: you can't find meaning, purpose and value in your own lives. We don't breath the same air, drink the same water or live on the same planet. There's no common morality that we can make up upon which ethics are built. Grounding oneself in nature is a bad idea and self exploration through creative acts must be mediated through the "culturally relevant", if you wonder what that means ask aphronesis. In fact don't act without asking him as he's the central figure to your story and will set you straight. You have no inherit intelligence, no free will (unconscious as it may be), emotions suck and instincts are to be avoided. In other words you must become intelligence (as determined outside yourself) without consciousness. Have fun and good luck with that.

I'm certain the aphro. will be happy to field any questions you may have.

 

[aphronesis]

So you started a facetious thread about anarchism, but really just wanted to talk about rural folk and camping? Maybe Instagram or Snapchat could help you connect.

 

[Starstruck]

As I've previously said I don't think anarchism can be relevant in our modern context outside an ideal, one that we're moving away from more rapidly than ever. As you said; the left is dead. So is any personal morality or group ethics. It's a cut throat world; the social contract is broken, the justice system is two tier, international law is invalid and might makes right. In hyper complexity correct behaviour is manipulation, exploitation, corruption and force.

https://www.amazon.com/Tribe-Homecoming-Belonging-Sebastian-Junger/dp/1455566381/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1466273161&sr=1-1&keywords=tribe+sebastian+junger

https://hbr.org/2011/04/ethical-breakdowns

http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/vanishing-point

 

[blutto]

Re:

As I've previously said I don't think anarchism can be relevant in our modern context outside an ideal, one that we're moving away from more rapidly than ever. As you said; the left is dead. So is any personal morality or group ethics. It's a cut throat world; the social contract is broken, the justice system is two tier, international law is invalid and might makes right. In hyper complexity correct behaviour is manipulation, exploitation, corruption and force.

https://www.amazon.com/Tribe-Homecoming-Belonging-Sebastian-Junger/dp/1455566381/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1466273161&sr=1-1&keywords=tribe+sebastian+junger

https://hbr.org/2011/04/ethical-breakdowns

http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/vanishing-point

....to the bolded...if you were to apply the broad notion of anarchism ( and not one strictly tied to socio-economic parameters ) to the question you could not be more wrong....for evolution in general and for human evolution in particular anarchism is the key element that allows things to not only exist but also to move forward...remove anarchism from the process and we have no "human experiment"....and no "human experiment" and no morality and then no ethics ( well, likely some form of morality, but much less likely anything resembling ethics )...

....and camping or not camping has nothing to do with that...its a question of how our bio-computers work and how language as a system operates and what it does....

Cheers

 

[Starstruck]

Re: Re:

As I've previously said I don't think anarchism can be relevant in our modern context outside an ideal, one that we're moving away from more rapidly than ever. As you said; the left is dead. So is any personal morality or group ethics. It's a cut throat world; the social contract is broken, the justice system is two tier, international law is invalid and might makes right. In hyper complexity correct behaviour is manipulation, exploitation, corruption and force.

https://www.amazon.com/Tribe-Homecoming-Belonging-Sebastian-Junger/dp/1455566381/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1466273161&sr=1-1&keywords=tribe+sebastian+junger

https://hbr.org/2011/04/ethical-breakdowns

http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/vanishing-point

....to the bolded...if you were to apply the broad notion of anarchism ( and not one strictly tied to socio-economic parameters ) to the question you could not be more wrong....for evolution in general and for human evolution in particular anarchism is the key element that allows things to not only exist but also to move forward...remove anarchism from the process and we have no "human experiment"....and no "human experiment" and no morality and then no ethics ( well, likely some form of morality, but much less likely anything resembling ethics )...

....and camping or not camping has nothing to do with that...its a question of how our bio-computers work and how language as a system operates and what it does....

Cheers

You're assuming we're "evolving" in a moving forward way - better, the myth of progress, etc. How true is that?

bio-computers? the heart is like a pump not the pump is like a heart. does an abstract string of symbols represent the thing it's describing better than the thing itself? the money symbol rabbit hole that we've all fallen into whereby everything and everyone is commodified. the only value is in the description humans give it (through language) or the price in money symbols it represents. are you surprised we're going to go extinct?
http://www.declineoftheempire.com/2016/06/hope-for-coral-reefs.html

Throw the 1% out into the wilderness to fend for themselves and they may learn a thing or two about their place in the cosmos.

 

[aphronesis]

Oh Christ: not "the world is ending and we're all going to die" kick again. The world is mostly going to become more banal, violent and dystopian while pretending otherwise and ignoring the reasons why. You want to go down the semiotic rabbit hole? Work through this book.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/deleuze/#LogSen.

Evolving means change; positive and negative. Leave your discredited myths of progress for the demagogues and plastic, med-grimacing talking heads.

So we're all commodified: work to unmake it. Develop practices of relation that resist it, rather than hiding from it. F!ck the one percent: stop feeding them and everyone who does.

 

[Starstruck]

Re:

Oh Christ: not "the world is ending and we're all going to die" kick again. The world is mostly going to become more banal, violent and dystopian while pretending otherwise and ignoring the reasons why. You want to go down the semiotic rabbit hole? Work through this book.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/deleuze/#LogSen.

Evolving means change; positive and negative. Leave your discredited myths of progress for the demagogues and plastic, med-grimacing talking heads.

So we're all commodified: work to unmake it. Develop practices of relation that resist it, rather than hiding from it. F!ck the one percent: stop feeding them and everyone who does.

Hey - we agree on something finally! Yippee!

Of course evolving means adaptation, not positive or negative. Who knows we may evolve into something more rat like. The empathy studies are showing a trend for sure.

You assume I'm hiding, yeah I'm hiding in plain sight with those I trade with.

To pretend that we're not at a turning point and that our survival as a species isn't threatened by ourselves is just more of the ostrich effect. You like objective analysis, evidence, facts - plenty upon plenty brother.

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

As I've previously said I don't think anarchism can be relevant in our modern context outside an ideal, one that we're moving away from more rapidly than ever. As you said; the left is dead. So is any personal morality or group ethics. It's a cut throat world; the social contract is broken, the justice system is two tier, international law is invalid and might makes right. In hyper complexity correct behaviour is manipulation, exploitation, corruption and force.

https://www.amazon.com/Tribe-Homecoming-Belonging-Sebastian-Junger/dp/1455566381/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1466273161&sr=1-1&keywords=tribe+sebastian+junger

https://hbr.org/2011/04/ethical-breakdowns

http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/vanishing-point

....to the bolded...if you were to apply the broad notion of anarchism ( and not one strictly tied to socio-economic parameters ) to the question you could not be more wrong....for evolution in general and for human evolution in particular anarchism is the key element that allows things to not only exist but also to move forward...remove anarchism from the process and we have no "human experiment"....and no "human experiment" and no morality and then no ethics ( well, likely some form of morality, but much less likely anything resembling ethics )...

....and camping or not camping has nothing to do with that...its a question of how our bio-computers work and how language as a system operates and what it does....

Cheers

You're assuming we're "evolving" in a moving forward way - better, the myth of progress, etc. How true is that?

bio-computers? the heart is like a pump not the pump is like a heart. does an abstract string of symbols represent the thing it's describing better than the thing itself? the money symbol rabbit hole that we've all fallen into whereby everything and everyone is commodified. the only value is in the description humans give it (through language) or the price in money symbols it represents. are you surprised we're going to go extinct?
http://www.declineoftheempire.com/2016/06/hope-for-coral-reefs.html

Throw the 1% out into the wilderness to fend for themselves and they may learn a thing or two about their place in the cosmos.

...to the first bolded....would very difficult from an evolutionary standpoint to argue otherwise...we for instance are a much better information gathering system than a rock...

...to the second bolded....that right there is what is sometimes referred to as the Aristotelian Fallacy, the map is not the territory, or, the name is not the thing named, or, a set is not a member of itself...its a nice construct to use when playing academic games that involve trying to understand man's place in nature...read its been done, and in fact mathematically defined...funny but we wouldn't be able to have this interchange without having that little thing managed ( "understanding" this dilemma was critical to defining the machine language that underpins computer talk )...

...all that being said that it is a problem central to human existence and apart from having being used in some quite specific instances it has not been applied as broadly as it should be ( I mean it didn't gain any singular significance until the turn of the last century with appearance of the early stages of proof theory )....and yeah if we don't make this a central part of working out worldly problems we are royally pooched...but to do that we have to come to grips with the centrality of anarchism in the human experiment...

Cheers

 

[Starstruck]

...so humanity's place in nature is in computer love and it's all under management.

edit, writing crap on this piece of junk in no way compares with my best experiences in life, real life. A horrible, meaningless imitation.

 

[aphronesis]

There's a difference between being aware of evidence and facts and intoning the apocalyptic. Hiding in place sight is one thing grinning and "trading" in the given culture is another.

@blutto, yes but who can say what sensory richness and acuity has been lost.

(Also, for the art lovers: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Map_and_the_Territory; not his best. This might be closer to themes of discussion and some Nietzschean hedonism crashing into Nietzschean biopolitics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomised)

 

[blutto]

Re:

...so humanity's place in nature is in computer love and it's all under management.

....not even close...you really got to up your game here...this ain't checkers anymore...

Cheers

 

[blutto]

Re:

There's a difference between being aware of evidence and facts and intoning the apocalyptic. Hiding in place sight is one thing grinning and "trading" in the given culture is another.

@blutto, yes but who can say what sensory richness and acuity has been lost.

(Also, for the art lovers: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Map_and_the_Territory; not his best. This might be closer to themes of discussion and some Nietzschean hedonism crashing into Nietzschean biopolitics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomised)

...yeah like in every step toward something is also a step away from something...?....

Cheers

 

[aphronesis]

Probably not that determined. Even in our lifetimes can you conjure the perceptual habits and textures of urban life before smartphones? Even where they're not ubiquitous, their existence has changed that absence.

 

[Starstruck]

Re: Re:

...so humanity's place in nature is in computer love and it's all under management.

....not even close...you really got to up your game here...this ain't checkers anymore...

Cheers

Sebastian Seung’s Quest to Map the Human Brain
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/magazine/sebastian-seungs-quest-to-map-the-human-brain.html

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

...so humanity's place in nature is in computer love and it's all under management.

....not even close...you really got to up your game here...this ain't checkers anymore...

Cheers

Sebastian Seung’s Quest to Map the Human Brain
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/magazine/sebastian-seungs-quest-to-map-the-human-brain.html

....interesting article....a nice scratch at the surface of something that is ultimately and infinitely huge ( and paradoxically small and simple at the same time )....my feeling is that when we get to edges of our bio-computer we will be able to travel thru time....and that is going to make things real interesting and weird...one thought is that would be the moment when we cease to be human and as Teillard De Chardin explained, finally find "God" ( or some reasonable facsimile thereof ) ....and we won't need anarchy anymore ( that being the motive force that powered the journey )....just a thought...

Cheers

 

[Starstruck]

Re: Re:

...so humanity's place in nature is in computer love and it's all under management.

....not even close...you really got to up your game here...this ain't checkers anymore...

Cheers

Sebastian Seung’s Quest to Map the Human Brain
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/magazine/sebastian-seungs-quest-to-map-the-human-brain.html

....interesting article....a nice scratch at the surface of something that is ultimately and infinitely huge ( and paradoxically small and simple at the same time )....my feeling is that when we get to edges of our bio-computer we will be able to travel thru time....and that is going to make things real interesting and weird...one thought is that would be the moment when we cease to be human and as Teillard De Chardin explained, finally find "God" ( or some reasonable facsimile thereof ) ....and we won't need anarchy anymore ( that being the motive force that powered the journey )....just a thought...

Cheers

It's an interesting thought. It's also interesting how the west has looked outward on this god seeking journey while the east (sweeping generalizations) looked in.
https://aeon.co/ideas/whatever-you-think-you-don-t-necessarily-know-your-own-mind

 

[aphronesis]

Re: Re:

...so humanity's place in nature is in computer love and it's all under management.

....not even close...you really got to up your game here...this ain't checkers anymore...

Cheers

Sebastian Seung’s Quest to Map the Human Brain
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/magazine/sebastian-seungs-quest-to-map-the-human-brain.html

....interesting article....a nice scratch at the surface of something that is ultimately and infinitely huge ( and paradoxically small and simple at the same time )....my feeling is that when we get to edges of our bio-computer we will be able to travel thru time....and that is going to make things real interesting and weird...one thought is that would be the moment when we cease to be human and as Teillard De Chardin explained, finally find "God" ( or some reasonable facsimile thereof ) ....and we won't need anarchy anymore ( that being the motive force that powered the journey )....just a thought...

Cheers

That still presumes that you move into those modes w/o or free of your socio-economic determinations.

As ever, I don't see that happening on a widespread scale.

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

...so humanity's place in nature is in computer love and it's all under management.

....not even close...you really got to up your game here...this ain't checkers anymore...

Cheers

Sebastian Seung’s Quest to Map the Human Brain
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/magazine/sebastian-seungs-quest-to-map-the-human-brain.html

....interesting article....a nice scratch at the surface of something that is ultimately and infinitely huge ( and paradoxically small and simple at the same time )....my feeling is that when we get to edges of our bio-computer we will be able to travel thru time....and that is going to make things real interesting and weird...one thought is that would be the moment when we cease to be human and as Teillard De Chardin explained, finally find "God" ( or some reasonable facsimile thereof ) ....and we won't need anarchy anymore ( that being the motive force that powered the journey )....just a thought...

Cheers

That still presumes that you move into those modes w/o or free of your socio-economic determinations.

As ever, I don't see that happening on a widespread scale.

....I have a feeling that if we ever get to the " edges of our bio-computer " and " be able to travel thru time " socio-economic determinants will be very minor concerns....

Cheers

 

[aphronesis]

Sure, I can see that premise and possibilty. But as this thread has maintained, to think that edge and time will be reached and defined strictly by aptitude--w/o others seeking to market and control it--is another matter.

 

[blutto]

Re:

Sure, I can see that premise and possibilty. But as this thread has maintained, to think that edge and time will be reached and defined strictly by aptitude--w/o others seeking to market and control it--is another matter.

...yeah those folks are just blinkered by the socio-economic determinates they find themselves in...didn't John Lennon call that false concreteness, or was it Bo Diddley ?...

...but in a world free of illusion, totally different story eh...like when you are camping for instance, its just you and the stars, and the mosquitos, and the black flies, and the sand flies, and the horse flies, and the deer flies, and the ticks, and that infernal chipmunk that wakes you up at 5:00 every morning with his maddening non-stop chirping....

Cheers

 

[aphronesis]

You can name those irritants and phenomena? When did that happen?

 

[blutto]

Re:

You can name those irritants and phenomena? When did that happen?

....it happens with some regularity around this particular socio-economic determinant....and is about to happen again next week...that I believe was just a pre-echo....an anticipatory outburst of angst and stuff, simmering in a soup of dread...I could also sing you a song about the joys of portaging with a week's worth of supplies...

Cheers