Cookster15
Moderator
Yeh, wasn’t sure about Hinault - did he crush the field worse than stage 16? Interested to see some numbers?different build, but how heavy was hinault?
he absolutely crushed everyone in ITTs on a regular basis.
Yeh, wasn’t sure about Hinault - did he crush the field worse than stage 16? Interested to see some numbers?different build, but how heavy was hinault?
he absolutely crushed everyone in ITTs on a regular basis.
No, check the length of the TT. In 1992 Indurain won in 1:19:31. That’s 2.5 times longer. Do the sums.there are many reasons not to use that as a comparison. many.
however, it was largely flat. speeds much higher. harder to make big gaps on.
so 3 minutes to De Las Cuevas and 4 to Bugno and Lemond is crazier as far as I am concerned.
No, check the length of the TT. In 1992 Indurain won in 1:19:31. That’s 2.5 times longer. Do the sums.
Vingegaard pulled his gaps in just 32 minutes !
Yeh, wasn’t sure about Hinault - did he crush the field worse than stage 16? Interested to see some numbers?
The course was a tactical dream for anyone that knew it well enough to stay off the brakes. Jonas' descending, on the bars and not on the brakes was amazingly calm. I haven't seen the whole footage but he seemed to confidently rail every corner and lose almost no rolling momentum. Few timetrials that have this variety of challenges get ridden well by anyone at each transition. I'd be curious to know what JV staff and Jonas could disclose on preparation, visualization exercises, etc. Great GS ski racers are experts at the critical course memory by they don't have to deal with the length of time or the level of energy management. It's like he had a race simulator for this course to prepare....Yes, but get your head around the fact he isn’t a typical time trialists build - like Indurain, Cancellara etc. He is 60Kg according to Wiki? Crazy is an understatement.
For all the talk by some, including myself, about TJV’s poor ITT performances this year, their GC leaders absolutely nailed their crux ITTs in the two GTs so far. Roglic’s ITT is of course overshadowed by this monstrous performance, plus the dropped chain dominated the narrative, but both he and JV were 100% focused and prepared.The course was a tactical dream for anyone that knew it well enough to stay off the brakes. Jonas' descending, on the bars and not on the brakes was amazingly calm. I haven't seen the whole footage but he seemed to confidently rail every corner and lose almost no rolling momentum. Few timetrials that have this variety of challenges get ridden well by anyone at each transition. I'd be curious to know what JV staff and Jonas could disclose on preparation, visualization exercises, etc. Great GS ski racers are experts at the critical course memory by they don't have to deal with the length of time or the level of energy management. It's like he had a race simulator for this course to prepare....
How hard were the stages raced in 76 and 92 before the TT occurred? Just a quick wiki search said the previous stages were TT, flat, hilly, TTT, and plain (whatever that means) for both years though I don’t know their profiles.
Since Vinge has the benefit of hard previous stages, the stages were all ridden very hard, and it being the third week. Though his performance came after a rest day, Indurian had 4 plain stages and Maertens 2 flat stages before their TTs.
That Vinge should be more fatigued as well compared to the other two TTs being compared. These three are all crazy TTs and Vinge did his after two very hard weeks of racing when he was expending energy all the way to the minimum 1 KM to go banner at the front on every stage. In theory Vinge should look tired like his competitors but went out and looked like he showed up to the prologue.How are you suggesting this would affect performances and time gaps?
Harder stages before would seem to increase chances of big gaps as riders are in different states of tiredness. Pog was definitely starting to be tired. Then again, they were just coming off a rest day. In 1976, it was early in the TDF, so everyone is fresher (?). In 1992, they did the Pyrenees very early, then a whole bunch of flat stages before Luxembourg TT. What sequence increases the chances of big gaps, not just superlative performances? My inkling would be after a bunch of tough stages, the gaps would likely be larger, no?
Where are the effects of fatigue on Vingegaard in the third week though? Assuming that relative gaps between Vinge and the peloton could be justified by fatigue, this still doesn't explain Vinge's performance in absolute values (w/kg) (which of course goes beyond OP's point I admit)How are you suggesting this would affect performances and time gaps?
Harder stages before would seem to increase chances of big gaps as riders are in different states of tiredness. Pog was definitely starting to be tired. Then again, they were just coming off a rest day. In 1976, it was early in the TDF, so everyone is fresher (?). In 1992, they did the Pyrenees very early, then a whole bunch of flat stages before Luxembourg TT. What sequence increases the chances of big gaps, not just superlative performances? My inkling would be after a bunch of tough stages, the gaps would likely be larger, no?
Yes, greater differences, but less speed and power than if fresh.I share @Big Doopie’s view. The more general fatigue, the greater differences are to be expected.
That Vinge should be more fatigued as well compared to the other two TTs being compared. These three are all crazy TTs and Vinge did his after two very hard weeks of racing when he was expending energy all the way to the minimum 1 KM to go banner at the front on every stage. In theory Vinge should look tired like his competitors but went out and looked like he showed up to the prologue.
Then if he’s able to do this kind of performance in the third week, imagine the watts and time he could have done if it was the first stage.
Where are the effects of fatigue on Vingegaard in the third week though? Assuming that relative gaps between Vinge and the peloton could be justified by fatigue, this still doesn't explain Vinge's performance in absolute values (w/kg) (which of course goes beyond OP's point I admit)
i have no doubt that he is not as strong as he was at the start of the TDF. it is just that others are more diminished.
I didn’t mean his time to the others, but his overall time it took to finish the course. If it was a prologue with no fatigue for him could he have done a 30-31 minute time?but is it not all relative?
vingo's TT in the third week demonstrates that he has better recovery than the others, not that he would have made these differences in a prologue (as everyone would be equally fresh).