Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

No real MVDP fanboy thinks he can be, or should try to be a climber - or a GC guy. How the hell WVA manages to climb like he does I'll never know, but I hope MVDP never even tries to do whatever it would take for him to hang with 130lb skeletons up mountains. Not a big fan of TT's either, but I will say, on on a technical course MVDP would have a huge advantage if he ever decided to get at least semi-serious about TT. He obviously has the engine to match anyone in the world.

Thanks. Another great example. He isn't interested in TT'ing, had some "nice" results in some short TT's in small races. The only time he really tried, he just so happened to match Van Aert, beating Asgreen, Porte, Thomas, Bissegger etc and finish top 5 in a lengthy TDF ITT.

 

[tobydawq]

Thanks. Another great example. He isn't interested in TT'ing, had some "nice" results in some short TT's in small races. The only time he really tried, he just so happened to match Van Aert, beating Asgreen, Porte, Thomas, Bissegger etc and finish top 5 in a lengthy TDF ITT.

IMO that TT shows that there had been something to it when people said it about him on other TTs. Not necessarily because he didn't go all-out those other times but he definitely didn't prepare ideally.

 

[Dekker2.0]

I was really impressed by his climbing on Le Grand-Bornand. It seemed like he allowed himself to drop after checking out his future GC rivals a bit.

 

[Open Horizon]

I know it's the off-season, but having the most consistently biased person on this forum now arguing, in a biased way, against the supposedly biased interpretations of other posters, well...

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I know it's the off-season, but having the most consistently biased person on this forum now arguing, in a biased way, against the supposedly biased interpretations of other posters, well...

If you think i'm the most biased person here, then that leaves us with two options. Either i'm one of the only people here who's posts you read, or you are biased yourself.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Sometimes it is just hard to win a bike race. Which it is for anyone, no matter who you are. You dont/cant win races at will. It goes for anyone.

The best riders just win more than the "average" and they are certainly both among the best riders in the peloton right now. I rather celebrate when they win in great fashion, than scrutinize every time they lose. For whatever reason.

vd poel even acknowledged it's much harder to win road races than cx/mtb. Obviously the tactics aspect but also because there's simply a lot more powerful riders

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

vd poel even acknowledged it's much harder to win road races than cx/mtb. Obviously the tactics aspect but also because there's simply a lot more powerful riders

If anything, him and Van Aert are bordering on insane RR percentages compared to most of their rivals, relative to the amount of races they do. It only makes sense they would be much lower than they were at CX, where there are only a handful of competitors coming from two small countries. Actually, i think Van Aert may be winning more RR by % than he was winning CX races the past 3 years

 

[Blanco]

What percentages? Wins per race day? I don't think they're superior to Pogacar or Roglic, well maybe Van Der Poel is, but Van Aert isn't I think...

 

[Bonimenier]

What percentages? Wins per race day? I don't think they're superior to Pogacar or Roglic, well maybe Van Der Poel is, but Van Aert isn't I think...

This season the 2 Slovenians and van Aert had the same amount of wins, but van Aert had the least racedays of the 3. Van der Poel had less wins and less racedays, but his wins/racedays ratio was lower than Roglic's and van Aert's and similar to Pogacar's.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

also dont really feel this and 2020 were great years for VD Poel on the road. In terms of effectiveness that is. He often dies in doing too much in my opinion.

 

[gerundium]

also dont really feel this and 2020 were great years for VD Poel on the road. In terms of effectiveness that is. He often dies in doing too much in my opinion.

it's insane that we think this way, but i feel the same way somehow. With VdP i always have the feeling even bigger things are / could be possible for him.

Think back to the spring when he won strade bianche. That was another of those flashes of brilliance we hope to see every race. Maybe it's for the best that not every race is like that, how can we spot the brilliance if we don't also get the ordinary in between.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I mean it's always the strong guys problem.

Wout van Aert, despite winning a ton of big races. Also missed a couple of huge ones because either he did too much work or did too much in races before.
Alaphilippe only had a few wins before the World Ch and a lot of near misses. It all feels they are "under" performing, which is often ridiculous. But it just shows how difficult to win a race.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Be interesting if he goes to the Giro to try to grab the Maglia Rosa on stage one. Yellow and pink jersey would be a nice collection. Could drop out after a week (or after two if he fancies the Genova stage) with a decent chance to contest a few stages - and bonus points for annoying Merckx for abandoning early.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

The Giro - is that wishful thinking, or a rumour? Seeing as it's in May, I'd have thought he'd be on his MTB, there are a few World Cups that month.

 

[senna6541]

it's insane that we think this way, but i feel the same way somehow. With VdP i always have the feeling even bigger things are / could be possible for him.

Think back to the spring when he won strade bianche. That was another of those flashes of brilliance we hope to see every race. Maybe it's for the best that not every race is like that, how can we spot the brilliance if we don't also get the ordinary in between.

it's insane that we think this way, but i feel the same way somehow. With VdP i always have the feeling even bigger things are / could be possible for him.

Think back to the spring when he won strade bianche. That was another of those flashes of brilliance we hope to see every race. Maybe it's for the best that not every race is like that, how can we spot the brilliance if we don't also get the ordinary in between.
[/QUOTE

Hard enough for a 3 discipline guy to peak at the right times with set schedule. Then throw the uncertainty of Covid into the mix and makes it almost impossible. MVDP almost got it really right this year with the WC in CX, huge win at SB, and TDF mission accomplished in a spectacular fashion. IF not for not being able to help himself at TA and the stupid crash at OG, he could have been looking at much, much more...

 

[Bolder]

I'm sure certain fans at one point have made preposterous claims or excuses for about any and every rider. This isn't what i was talking about though. I was talking about a recurring alibi that basically makes him the most superior rider in the peloton. Either he wins, or he didn't care. This has been the ongoing discourse among a large portion of his fanbase for the past two or three seasons.

guilty as charged.

But realistically, there are five riders today who would be likely to win any race the enter, (not counting sprints)., with the caveats being that it’s a race that suits them and they’ve targeted it.

Not saying “chance to win,” but likely to, which is a huge difference.

Mvdp is one of those riders. so when things go wrong I do tend to make excuses for him like “he did pretty well for a race he didn’t care about” rather than admit I’ve backed a losing horse…

That’s sort of the point of being a fan rather than a disinterested observer.

 

[senna6541]

guilty as charged.

But realistically, there are five riders today who would be likely to win any race the enter, (not counting sprints)., with the caveats being that it’s a race that suits them and they’ve targeted it.

Not saying “chance to win,” but likely to, which is a huge difference.

Mvdp is one of those riders. so when things go wrong I do tend to make excuses for him like “he did pretty well for a race he didn’t care about” rather than admit I’ve backed a losing horse…

That’s sort of the point of being a fan rather than a disinterested observer.

Bingo! I'm a fan myself. I think some folks that post on these pages must think they're professional analysts or something? Or reporters that need to remain objective? As a fan, I'll gladly argue that an "on form" MVDP is almost impossible (minus bad luck) to beat in 1 days where you can completely detonate a race with brute strength - SB, Flanders, PR, this year's WC's, etc.

 

[BlueRoads]

Bingo! I'm a fan myself. I think some folks that post on these pages must think they're professional analysts or something? Or reporters that need to remain objective? As a fan, I'll gladly argue that an "on form" MVDP is almost impossible (minus bad luck) to beat in 1 days where you can completely detonate a race with brute strength - SB, Flanders, PR, this year's WC's, etc.

I'm totally fine with fans, in fact I would agree with most of what you say - this is not a place to necessarily stay objective, nor is it the task of a sports watcher. But I just have a problem with it when it crosses the line of diminishing other athletes - and if you say van der Poel is practically impossible to beat when he's just fit and up to it you just disregard other riders like Alaphilippe, van Aert, Pogacar, Asgreen, Moscon and so on. There have been races where van der Poel has looked unbeatable and there have been races where others have looked like forces of nature that cannot be overcome.

 

[tobydawq]

- and if you say van der Poel is practically impossible to beat when he's just fit and up to it you just disregard other riders like Alaphilippe, van Aert, Pogacar, Asgreen, Moscon and so on.

Poor Colbrelli

 

[BlueRoads]

Poor Colbrelli

I actually wrote Colbrelli first, than just wrote "and so on".

Okay, maybe I sometimes don't give him the respect he deserves as a rider, but if I ever direct a new godfather, he will be my Sonny Corleone!

 

[jmdirt]

I'm totally fine with fans, in fact I would agree with most of what you say - this is not a place to necessarily stay objective, nor is it the task of a sports watcher. But I just have a problem with it when it crosses the line of diminishing other athletes - and if you say van der Poel is practically impossible to beat when he's just fit and up to it you just disregard other riders like Alaphilippe, van Aert, Pogacar, Asgreen, Moscon and so on. There have been races where van der Poel has looked unbeatable and there have been races where others have looked like forces of nature that cannot be overcome.

"and so on" includes some fast dudes who are not very happy that you left them off of your list!

EDIT: I changed the wording because I got two emoji responses that indicate my wording wasn't good, even with the tongue out emoji. Sorry BR!

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I'm totally fine with fans, in fact I would agree with most of what you say - this is not a place to necessarily stay objective, nor is it the task of a sports watcher. But I just have a problem with it when it crosses the line of diminishing other athletes - and if you say van der Poel is practically impossible to beat when he's just fit and up to it you just disregard other riders like Alaphilippe, van Aert, Pogacar, Asgreen, Moscon and so on. There have been races where van der Poel has looked unbeatable and there have been races where others have looked like forces of nature that cannot be overcome.

This is exactly what i was getting at. I don't post comments on the CN articles on the homepage anymore, but in the past there have been a slew of annoying fanboys, that kept trolling the comments section when others (especially Van Aert) won a race where Van der Poel wasn't starting, that the victory was meaningless, because he would otherwise not have won. Because, again, "when Van der Poel wants to win, he wil win". When replying with for instance Strade 2020, then he was just training or didn't care. There have been ample fans that have been convinced (maybe some still are) that he could win a GT... if only he tried. Ugh. All those other cyclist must basically be chumps who are privileged to be alive in the era and universe to witness the greatness that is Van der Poel.

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

Bingo! I'm a fan myself. I think some folks that post on these pages must think they're professional analysts or something? Or reporters that need to remain objective? As a fan, I'll gladly argue that an "on form" MVDP is almost impossible (minus bad luck) to beat in 1 days where you can completely detonate a race with brute strength - SB, Flanders, PR, this year's WC's, etc.

Then why MVDP doesn't win more races ? And MVDP winning a race is often because a number of opponents are not in top shape themselves or do not participate. For example the Strade Bianche and the first stages of the Tour when Van Aert was not in top shape. MVDP was in top form in Milan-San Remo and in the Tour of Flanders, but didn't win.

 

[stonerider]

Then why MVDP doesn't win more races ?

He races too much between CX, Road, and MTB. He needs a better manager to help him pick his biggest targets and make sure he is recovering properly between his targets. In my opinion, week long stage races don't do much for his physiology and just leave him fatigued if he is trying to win too many of the stages and he gets bored if he isn't going for the win. My wish list for his targets would be the Spring classics, a few MTB races, Road WC in the fall if it suits him, and a short CX season around the Christmas period.

 

[Spine Concept]

Then why MVDP doesn't win more races ? And MVDP winning a race is often because a number of opponents are not in top shape themselves or do not participate. For example the Strade Bianche and the first stages of the Tour when Van Aert was not in top shape. MVDP was in top form in Milan-San Remo and in the Tour of Flanders, but didn't win.

This is exactly what I mean. There are excuses created for both riders. "He wasn't in top shape...", "If he started his sprint earlier...", "He rode this race while the other skipped that one so he's fresher...", "He's not targeting this race...", "He had to work harder/the most so therefore...", "He was only riding so the other wouldn't win..." "If only he didn't mix multiple disciplines..." "If only he didn't fall he would have surely won..." Lmao, the hypocrisy is glaring. Excuses are made for both van Aert and van der Poel and every other rider that you support all the time and this has been so and will remain so until the end of times.

Like someone else also mentioned, some of these "excuses" hold merit, but it won't be recognized or accepted by someone who doesn't like the rider in question so it will still be seen as an excuse by those people. The point is, excuses galore for everyone. Get over it.