Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

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But from that point of view the race organisation would have been wrong either way. If they don't put the ramp there in training and someone going slow (because they aren't familiar with the course yet) gets hurt, it would have been a mistake too - and that's a lot more likely than one guy thinking he's found a special secret line that's better than anyone else's.
The ramp was never supposed to be there in the race, because it looks cooler without. That was supposed to be the money shot for everyone wanting to take a cool photo of the race.

In the first round too! Why not take the jump like everyone else in front of you, get comfortable, and then look for an edge?

Fine, give the organisers 10% blame, but I won't admit any more than that. It's VDP mess-up, I stand by that.
 
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But from that point of view the race organisation would have been wrong either way. If they don't put the ramp there in training and someone going slow (because they aren't familiar with the course yet) gets hurt, it would have been a mistake too - and that's a lot more likely than one guy thinking he's found a special secret line that's better than anyone else's.
The ramp was never supposed to be there in the race, because it looks cooler without. That was supposed to be the money shot for everyone wanting to take a cool photo of the race.

In the first round too! Why not take the jump like everyone else in front of you, get comfortable, and then look for an edge?

Fine, give the organisers 10% blame, but I won't admit any more than that. It's VDP mess-up, I stand by that.
0% blame on the organizers in my book...
 
But from that point of view the race organisation would have been wrong either way. If they don't put the ramp there in training and someone going slow (because they aren't familiar with the course yet) gets hurt, it would have been a mistake too - and that's a lot more likely than one guy thinking he's found a special secret line that's better than anyone else's.

In the first round too! Why not take the jump like everyone else in front of you, get comfortable, and then look for an edge?

Fine, give the organisers 10% blame, but I won't admit any more than that. It's VDP mess-up, I stand by that.
Because, as Vdp indicated, use the ramp was as quickly as jumping. And way safer. Vdp, as a candidate winner, wanted to keep the risks as low as possible in this competition without losing time.
 
Because, as Vdp indicated, use the ramp was as quickly as jumping. And way safer. Vdp, as a candidate winner, wanted to keep the risks as low as possible in this competition without losing time.
I've said all I have to say on this really, I'll finish after this, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Imo it's evidently not safer. For me it's like someone following Nibali on a descent and thinking "hey, I'm not following his line in the bend, I'll go inside" and be shocked when he overshoots. VdP was not in front, he saw everyone before him take the jump all out, but he wanted to do his own thing, and crashed.

The root cause of this crash is his bad preparation, including studying the course and regulations of the race.
 
bull*hit, they've put it there cause it was raining/wet.
With the way women's cycling is treated I wouldn't be surprised if they planned to have it there for the women's race all along. That would also tie in with why it was there for practice (and from Twitter it seems like it was there for some of practice and not there for other parts of it but I can't be sure about that).
 
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With the way women's cycling is treated I wouldn't be surprised if they planned to have it there for the women's race all along. That would also tie in with why it was there for practice (and from Twitter it seems like it was there for some of practice and not there for other parts of it but I can't be sure about that).
most likely... still plenty of ladies were jumping it just fine. except for one insane save by Jolanda.
 
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most likely... still plenty of ladies were jumping it just fine. except for one insane save by Jolanda.
I missed that save. They're all capable of jumping it, and it's definitely not faster to roll it and it's very likely slower (not that it would matter a huge amount there), but if it's there it's unsurprising some will roll it as it's much safer. I think people don't realise how skilful these riders are. Most people wouldn't go near that drop on any bike and most people who call themselves mountain bikers wouldn't even think about hitting a drop like that without a minimum of 150mm travel both front and rear.
 
The ramp wasn't going to be there for the women's race either, was part of of the changes due to the weather (other lines were changed too)

"Due to the slippery landing surface on Sakura Drop the training ramp will be re-installed to allowed riders to roll the jump, but the A-line will remain open," said the communication issued by the UCI Technical Delegate.
 
They had the test event. Without that ramp. Unless 10 crashed in that test event, it seems obvious they keep the same conditions.
Yes, they did the same at the test event; ramp for practice, then removed for the race. They knew this is what would happen. In fact, fairly recently, Evie had some 'jump' coaching in the Forest of Dean as she wasn't confident with big jumps; however during practice, she was flying it.
 
As said above i didn't investigate this in depth. Hence one question why was then a confusion about the ramp if the ramp was never there in the first place?
All I read is Gerben de Knegt (the Dutch coach) said it "100s of times" to MvdP, and Vader (his team mate) said he thought the ramp wouldn't be there in the actual race.
MvdP clearly either didn't listen or was having too much of a training reflex of rolling down rather than to do the jump in training (with speed and lifting the front wheel).
I think his mistake is that he didn't train enought for jumping and instead rolled down the ramp consequently in training. So he wasn't used to jumping that part.
If only he tried both ways and cautiously jumped in the first round (so he would see if it was still there). But he risked rolling down, the rest is history.
 
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All I read is Gerben de Knegt (the Dutch coach) said it "100s of times" to MvdP, and Vader (his team mate) said he thought the ramp wouldn't be there in the actual race.
MvdP clearly either didn't listen or was having too much of a training reflex to do the jump in training (with speed and lifting the front wheel).
I think his mistake is that he didn't train enought for jumping and instead rolled down the ramp consequently in training. So he wasn't used to jumping that part.
If only he tried both ways and cautiously jumped in the first round (so he would see if it was still there). But he risked rolling down, the rest is history.
That is fair point but still if the ramp was there on reckoning and wasn't there on the race. Then IMHO Mathieu Van der Poel can't take the whole blame. The track should be the same on reckoning and on the race.

P.S. Maybe Mathieu Van der Poel can take 99% of the blame but for sure not the whole thing.
 
Yes, they did the same at the test event; ramp for practice, then removed for the race. They knew this is what would happen. In fact, fairly recently, Evie had some 'jump' coaching in the Forest of Dean as she wasn't confident with big jumps; however during practice, she was flying it.
Big up Katy Curd (I think it was) who helped Evie learn to do this:

 
That is fair point but still if the ramp was there on reckoning and wasn't there on the race. Then IMHO Mathieu Van der Poel can't take the whole blame. The track should be the same on reckoning and on the race.
I get that having the course identical in training and the race would be ideal in terms of avoiding all possible confusion, but to me it makes sense to have the training ramp as an option rather than making everyone do the jump from the first time round the course in their preparation, when they are unfamiliar with the course and may also not be going at sufficient speed.

So it all comes down to communication. They had the test event which mvdp didn't do as he had other priorities. Perhaps he isn't the best in terms of reading information provided by the UCI or listening to his coaches when they reminded him of the change. Perhaps the discussion with his teammate about how it was removed in the test event didn't make him think there was any possibility it would also be removed in the actual race. Perhaps his short preparation compared to other competitors meant there was (understandably) just too much going on in his head. Perhaps they will paint removable objects bright red in future to avoid confusion.

But one thing's for certain, if they didn't have that ramp in training and riders had to take on that jump from the very first time they went round, the organisers would also be criticised for any crashes that that caused.
 
@Barnacle Bill

It's debatable but personally i feel that the track should be the same on reckoning and on the race. As for communication and listening. IMHO super starts are not there to do that. They are there to do their thing. For example Dončić is not on the Olympics to do the listening. He is there to do the talking. It's just their role we expect them to take.
 

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