Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

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Feb 20, 2012
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It's easy to analyze that huge effort from our comfy perspective.
One thing is clear: Mathieu is accustomed to and expects to win every race he enters. He wasn't riding for 2nd and Remco is an afterthought until he rides close enough to be of assistance. He would know that Remco has zero chance of catching Tadej unless there was a crash. The problem with collaboration on a course like this; it tortures through pace-variation from both terrain and racing. A rider that catches you has already assumed a faster pace and MvP attempting to accelerate could completely blow up beyond finishing at that stage of the race.
It's easy to analyze because the mistakes are obvious. Van der Poel very clearly does not expect to win every race he enters. He admits Pogacar is better than him, yet he does not change his approach to maximize his chance of winning to reflect that.

Seriously it's all like Brahim Diaz gets another chance AFCON final last minute penalty only to do a Panenka again and miss again with 50% or more of fans somehow approving of his decision
 
Sep 1, 2023
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It's easy to analyze because the mistakes are obvious. Van der Poel very clearly does not expect to win every race he enters. He admits Pogacar is better than him, yet he does not change his approach to maximize his chance of winning to reflect that.

Seriously it's all like Brahim Diaz gets another chance AFCON final last minute penalty only to do a Panenka again and miss again with 50% or more of fans somehow approving of his decision
What's it called when you repeat same thing over and over again, expecting different results. 🤔
 
Jun 19, 2009
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It's easy to analyze because the mistakes are obvious. Van der Poel very clearly does not expect to win every race he enters. He admits Pogacar is better than him, yet he does not change his approach to maximize his chance of winning to reflect that.

Seriously it's all like Brahim Diaz gets another chance AFCON final last minute penalty only to do a Panenka again and miss again with 50% or more of fans somehow approving of his decision
If he admits after the fact and you question the approach he is being situationally realistic. It's amazing that many here pillory Tadej for demonstrating serious skills and denigrate all but the Belgian losers. Eddy would be embarrassed and he knows how he was treated by Spanish and French fans. If these postulations on tactics weren't so influenced by regional chauvinism they might be worth recommending to MvP.
"Everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the face." Mike Tyson
 
Feb 20, 2012
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If he admits after the fact and you question the approach he is being situationally realistic. It's amazing that many here pillory Tadej for demonstrating serious skills and denigrate all but the Belgian losers. Eddy would be embarrassed and he knows how he was treated by Spanish and French fans. If these postulations on tactics weren't so influenced by regional chauvinism they might be worth recommending to MvP.
"Everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the face." Mike Tyson
Yes, I famously hates Dutch people. That must be the answer
 
Apr 30, 2011
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It's a sporting ambition. It's more valuable for him to beat Pogacar in a clean fight than to complete another monument in a weak style. It's his choice, and I understand it.
 
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Jun 19, 2009
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Yes, I famously hates Dutch people. That must be the answer
Belgians send death threats to other Belgian riders....Who knows what motivations require such analysis of guys riding a bike. Don't think there was an Alpecin rider in the same time zone as Mathieu so I'd rely on his judgement. He doesn't seem to whine or lose sleep over not winning since MSR gave him a dose already.
 
Jul 15, 2021
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Belgians send death threats to other Belgian riders....Who knows what motivations require such analysis of guys riding a bike. Don't think there was an Alpecin rider in the same time zone as Mathieu so I'd rely on his judgement. He doesn't seem to whine or lose sleep over not winning since MSR gave him a dose already.
Now I certainly don't want to speak for Red Rick, but I feel his criticism of Mathieu is mostly out of a frustration that he knows he would be able to achieve better results by riding differently.
I'm not sure I agree, because if he rode differently, Pog would also react to that situation in a different matter, which doesn't make it a simple 1+1=2.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Now I certainly don't want to speak for Red Rick, but I feel his criticism of Mathieu is mostly out of a frustration that he knows he would be able to achieve better results by riding differently.
I'm not sure I agree, because if he rode differently, Pog would also react to that situation in a different matter, which doesn't make it a simple 1+1=2.
That is the heart of what I witnessed. Tadej took every favorable meter of terrain to punish whoever could follow and had the poise to settle into a great tempo after. Rinse, repeat time and again. It was alot like Strade Bianche where he got gaps, settled in and monitored the chasers. To Rick's point the chasers seldom collaborated to any success. They rode to get what they could.
 
Jun 30, 2022
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From the article ‚You have to race to win, not try to be the smartest‘
LOL that doesn‘t make any sense, it‘s downright paradoxical. The smartest thing to do is to maximise your winning chances.
 
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I don't know if I'm in the thread Gerrans´ thread or in the thread of a cyclist of Vito Braet's level. Van der Poel, triple winner of Flanders and Roubaix.

I don't remember a single chase where Evenepoel has closed the gap on Pogacar. Only at Amstel Gold Race because Pogacar was coocked; in the other 126748 races, never.
The conviction that Evenepoel will catch him on the flat in a 278 kilometer road race is as much of a myth as a unicorn.

Van der Poel climbed the final pass of the Kwaremont second fastest; Remco was fourteenth, 25 seconds lower than MVDP. That's a huge loss againts Pogacar.
Some even say that Van der Poel should have stopped and waited. That's a stupid idea that would only have resulted in losing more time.

Van der Poel's turns were very lazy. He wasn't putting in any effort, and they were closing the gap behind him when VDP pulled.

Like with Pidcock, there are also tactical gurus who say that Pidcock shouldn't have gone with Pogacar. Pidcock was one sprint away from winning MSR, a very high probability, but it seems that a sprint against 20 fast men like Pedersen, Trentin or Van Aert would have been better.
 
Mar 4, 2011
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I don't know if I'm in the thread Gerrans´ thread or in the thread of a cyclist of Vito Braet's level. Van der Poel, triple winner of Flanders and Roubaix.

I don't remember a single chase where Evenepoel has closed the gap on Pogacar. Only at Amstel Gold Race because Pogacar was coocked; in the other 126748 races, never.
The conviction that Evenepoel will catch him on the flat in a 278 kilometer road race is as much of a myth as a unicorn.

Van der Poel climbed the final pass of the Kwaremont second fastest; Remco was fourteenth, 25 seconds lower than MVDP. That's a huge loss againts Pogacar.
Some even say that Van der Poel should have stopped and waited. That's a stupid idea that would only have resulted in losing more time.

Van der Poel's turns were very lazy. He wasn't putting in any effort, and they were closing the gap behind him when VDP pulled.

Like with Pidcock, there are also tactical gurus who say that Pidcock shouldn't have gone with Pogacar. Pidcock was one sprint away from winning MSR, a very high probability, but it seems that a sprint against 20 fast men like Pedersen, Trentin or Van Aert would have been better.
I think it would make more sense to direct your comments to whoever it was making those statements, because they weren’t being said by the regular posters in the race threads on this forum. I didn’t hear any claims here that Pidcock shouldn’t stay with Pog in MSR. And while many folks did want MVDP to stop working with Pogacar in de Ronde, I don’t recall anyone saying he should stop and wait. But maybe I miss one, so please go back through the 50 or so pages of the race thread to point those out. But if you’re complaining about what media announcers and commentators were saying don’t frame it as naïveté here. No need to increase the straw man population.
 
Sep 1, 2023
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I think it would make more sense to direct your comments to whoever it was making those statements, because they weren’t being said by the regular posters in the race threads on this forum. I didn’t hear any claims here that Pidcock shouldn’t stay with Pog in MSR. And while many folks did want MVDP to stop working with Pogacar in de Ronde, I don’t recall anyone saying he should stop and wait. But maybe I miss one, so please go back through the 50 or so pages of the race thread to point those out. But if you’re complaining about what media announcers and commentators were saying don’t frame it as naïveté here. No need to increase the straw man population.
There are pages, or were, telling how wrong TP was when he worked with TP.
 
Mar 4, 2011
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There are pages, or were, telling how wrong TP was when he worked with TP.
That’s not want he said or what I was responding to: he said “there are tactical gurus who say that Pidcock shouldn't have gone with Pogacar.” I know you know that going with and working with are two different things.
 
Mar 4, 2011
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But you wrote

Same as Pidcock not working with Pogi
That doesn’t make sense to me? Could You first go back and read his or her quote? I was contesting two different points : that “people” whoever he meant, said MvDP should “stop and wait” in RvV and that some “gurus” said Pidcock should not “go with” Pogacar at MSR. And please understand I’m not talking about racing strategies— I’m calling out what seems to me like putting words in other people’s mouth in a dismissive fashion. However, it’s also possible he or she (or you) aren’t native English speakers and the clarity isn’t there.

ed. Or perhaps I’m just the one lacking clarity ;)
 
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