The Next Step--Target Letters

[Francois the Postman]

A Public Forum focused on casting doubt on the credibility of a transparent liar.
versus
The likelihood that the target would one-ball seed the dialogue to sway 'public' opinion?

Are you for real?
democracy = debate.

Yes, I am for real.

No-one here has been given any warnings about any specific post in the discussion you are having, publicly or privately, so I'm not sure where you see a democracy=debate angle.

I gave a pre-emptive warning to those that expect an influx of paid Lance agents and low-level posters, that they better not start to speculate in forum threads who of these new posters is an agent or not, as when that situation arises. I did not address anyone directly, it is a general reminder to all.

The mods are quite active behind the scenes to keep the forum here as troll-free as we can, and new tools are being employed which are having an effect.

But we also expect people to understand we welcome new and genuine posters who follow the guidelines with open arms. They might even have opinions which some here find crazy or fan-boyish.

If you do expect people of being paid trolls, or trolls full stop, or someone who has been banned umpteen times, contact us through the system in place, and we will look into it.

See it as a friendly, but serious reminder, prompted by the tone and direction of a side strand in the discussion here. Nothing more.

There is no issue with you guys discussing Lance & Co's PR strategies, as you perceive them.

 

[Race Radio]

PRE-EMPTIVE MODERATION WARNING:

FYI, speculation about the legitimacy of named fellow posters in forum threads here is NOT acceptable. If you want to report users or have suspicions, pm the moderators. Our forum is not the place for a witch-hunt.

I do not think anyone is saying Gary is posting here. Since the whole Landis thing he has disappeared. Even he can no longer defend the myth.

To be clear the question was asked who are the livestrong people who have flooded the internet with misinformation and fake talking points. As one of the founders of the LAF who has spent much of the last 10 years flooding the internet with often comical lies Hombre/Bobke certainly qualifies.

 

[D-Queued]

Comical lies?

He saw the X-Rays dammit!

The heart really is two sizes too small.

Dave.

 

[Francois the Postman]

I do not think anyone is saying Gary is posting here. Since the whole Landis thing he has disappeared. Even he can no longer defend the myth.

To be clear the question was asked who are the livestrong people who have flooded the internet with misinformation and fake talking points. As one of the founders of the LAF who has spent much of the last 10 years flooding the internet with often comical lies Hombre/Bobke certainly qualifies.

I know. But that was not what prompted my reminder.

Which is now also becoming far more important than the "FYI" flagged up with it indicted.

Just to be equally clear: it came after reading this...

My 'favourite' on this forum was the thread "Warning for Lance fans". [snip]
In hindsight, it seems a pre-emptive move, so I would expect more of the same soon.

Followed by more posters reminiscing, expecting the same, and a more specific comment about an influx of low post level 'tards recently.

Without that last one I probably would have let it fly. With that last comment in place and part of the flow, I did not.

You know and I know that a few months ago the trolls (the likes of BPC and others) were far harder to keep from being all over the place here, almost at will. And we all saw the the public speculation that ensued when folk suspected a new poster from being him. No-one was spot on all the time, and innocent posters got caught up in the hunt. Sometimes it was fruitful at a time when the tools were less effective here, but it also created the feeling that there was a forum clique dictating who was in and out.

I was no mod then, but have read the mod notes from then and now, and also know there are now new procedures in place.

It was simply to remind people not to engage in similar "forum hunts" when "Lance time" arises, or doesn't.

You are all long-standing posters here. Old habits can die hard, old trodden ways are easier to take, even if it is for the first time. But we have new tools now, and expect people to follow the new and appropriate route.

Hence my post.

Again, the "warning/reminder" is a general one, and not aimed at anyone in specific.

Race Radio, I know you have seen first hand that the flagging system works far better than it did. You know the way. What you and others don't see is how much better the first hurdle is working (not perfectly, but much better).

I think we all want to keep the forum an inviting place to innocent and genuine new posters, who are enough of a cycling enthusiast to find this place, and who don't deserve the "welcome" that some got in the past. They also are no 'tards.

And we all want to keep the others out.

Really the last thing I want to say about this now, if anyone wants to continue this discussion please take it to the "about the forum" area in the feedback section.

back on topic please.

Carry on as you were. Please, just take note of what I said, and leave it at that. No-one has been addressed on anything in particular.

 

[TubularBills]

I know. But that was not what prompted my reminder.

Which is now also becoming far more important than the "FYI" flagged up with it indicted.

Just to be equally clear: it came after reading this...



Followed by more posters reminiscing, expecting the same, and a more specific comment about an influx of low post level 'tards recently.

Without that last one I probably would have let it fly. With that last comment in place and part of the flow, I did not.

You know and I know that a few months ago the trolls (the likes of BPC and others) were far harder to keep from being all over the place here, almost at will. And we all saw the the public speculation that ensued when folk suspected a new poster from being him. No-one was spot on all the time, and innocent posters got caught up in the hunt. Sometimes it was fruitful at a time when the tools were less effective here, but it also created the feeling that there was a forum clique dictating who was in and out.

I was no mod then, but have read the mod notes from then and now, and also know there are now new procedures in place.

It was simply to remind people not to engage in similar "forum hunts" when "Lance time" arises, or doesn't.

You are all long-standing posters here. Old habits can die hard, old trodden ways are easier to take, even if it is for the first time. But we have new tools now, and expect people to follow the new and appropriate route.

Hence my post.

Again, the "warning/reminder" is a general one, and not aimed at anyone in specific.

Race Radio, I know you have seen first hand that the flagging system works far better than it did. You know the way. What you and others don't see is how much better the first hurdle is working (not perfectly, but much better).

I think we all want to keep the forum an inviting place to innocent and genuine new posters, who are enough of a cycling enthusiast to find this place, and who don't deserve the "welcome" that some got in the past. They also are no 'tards.

And we all want to keep the others out.

Really the last thing I want to say about this now, if anyone wants to continue this discussion please take it to the "about the forum" area in the feedback section.

back on topic please.

Carry on as you were. Please, just take note of what I said, and leave it at that. No-one has been addressed on anything in particular.

yadaa, yaddaa, yaddaa... it is after all, all about money. Congratulations on embracing the locals and welcoming the...

 

[Race Radio]

I know. But that was not what prompted my reminder.

Which is now also becoming far more important than the "FYI" flagged up with it indicted.

Just to be equally clear: it came after reading this...



Followed by more posters reminiscing, expecting the same, and a more specific comment about an influx of low post level 'tards recently.

Without that last one I probably would have let it fly. With that last comment in place and part of the flow, I did not.

You know and I know that a few months ago the trolls (the likes of BPC and others) were far harder to keep from being all over the place here, almost at will. And we all saw the the public speculation that ensued when folk suspected a new poster from being him. No-one was spot on all the time, and innocent posters got caught up in the hunt. Sometimes it was fruitful at a time when the tools were less effective here, but it also created the feeling that there was a forum clique dictating who was in and out.

I was no mod then, but have read the mod notes from then and now, and also know there are now new procedures in place.

It was simply to remind people not to engage in similar "forum hunts" when "Lance time" arises, or doesn't.

You are all long-standing posters here. Old habits can die hard, old trodden ways are easier to take, even if it is for the first time. But we have new tools now, and expect people to follow the new and appropriate route.

Hence my post.

Again, the "warning/reminder" is a general one, and not aimed at anyone in specific.

Race Radio, I know you have seen first hand that the flagging system works far better than it did. You know the way. What you and others don't see is how much better the first hurdle is working (not perfectly, but much better).

I think we all want to keep the forum an inviting place to innocent and genuine new posters, who are enough of a cycling enthusiast to find this place, and who don't deserve the "welcome" that some got in the past. They also are no 'tards.

And we all want to keep the others out.

Really the last thing I want to say about this now, if anyone wants to continue this discussion please take it to the "about the forum" area in the feedback section.

back on topic please.

Carry on as you were. Please, just take note of what I said, and leave it at that. No-one has been addressed on anything in particular.

I agree, the system works much better then before and the latest incarnation of BPC, Carboncrank, or Bagster is often shut down within hours. Because of this most have turned to reporting rather then confronting him when he appears. It is only when it is obvious and not taken care of, like Bilirubin, that I point it out.

While there may have been posters in the past that parroted PS talking points I think that this tactic is long gone. The results were overwhelming negative as well informed posters easily picked apart the lies and corrected the spin. It is far easier to focus on newspaper and website comments sections where readers are less informed.

 

[theswordsman]

I'm glad someone is looking out for the new members. I remember earlier in the year, Cycling News wanted to advertise the Forum a bit, so they linked to a race prediction thread and offered Road To Roubaix dvd's as prizes. Unfortunately, it was the kind of thread that stays locked until the morning of the race, so when new people showed up, there was no place to make predictions. People made new threads. I remember one poor guy made his first ever post with his predictions, and someone replied with a face palm.

On the opposite side, I used to avoid the Forum because I just don't enjoy discussing that aspect of the sport. But my favorite time here was the night that the Wall Street Journal broke the Landis story. It was all excitement and high fives for an hour, and then they came, like a plague of locusts. Dozens of "cycling fans" who coincidentally picked that exact moment to join, all badmouthing Landis and praising Lance. I literally couldn't keep up with my ignore list. I remember asking them if they all came on the same bus. The content was nonsense, but seeing them show up like a flash mob all toeing the company line was a good reminder of how the machine operates. They really did try to take over the thread.