The official Contador is a doper thread.

[Mellow Velo]

Bernard Kohl a mule?
Digging this up from my memory banks. (no net fishing)
I think I'm right in saying, he announced himself as a potential "big boy", at the 2006 Dauphine Libere.
Climbed the Ventoux to within a km of the top with LL, Menchov and Moreau.
Finished up in the top half a dozen, as the best T Mobile rider, out riding team mates like Oscar Sevilla.
He was also riding a strong Vuelta, that year, until crashing out.

Now, we all have clear evidence of what all the top T Mobile riders were up to, in 2006 and where they were doing it.

Kohl in his confession, tell us that he was doing it, "on the cheap", so to speak, at that time.

So, it stands to reason, he would be very competitive at the highest level, when he joined the upper echelons of the doping fraternity and so it proved.

He was just entering his peak years.
So, a mule, I think not.

If anything, he is a prime example of how the dark side holds such attraction, to those blessed with the ability and cursed with the immorality.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Sigh... okay heres the logic (this should be a sticky. its been discussed soo many times).

Lets say we take the 20 cyclists in the world. Lets assume you are correct and not all of them dope. lets say 50% are clean. 50% train hard, and 50% don't train hard, they just do dope. But they are all level-ish in the top 20. so what would happen if one of the 50% who are lazy and doped suddenly went "duh.. what if i did both? what if i trained hard AND doped". Suddenly he would be leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else, and would be a huge standout. That doesn't seem to be the case. So either the top 20 cyclists in the world are either all 100% clean, or all 100% doping. Which do you honestly believe is the case?

just to help the decision, lets assume that all 20 are clean. that means that all the dopers are actually slower than the top 20. this would be almost statistical proof that doping actually makes you slower. hmmm, something seems a little wrong here, yes?

Also, do you really in your heart think that a top 20 pro cyclist is doing dope so they don't have to train hard? Do you even understand the mindset of a pro cyclist? These guys will drive themselves in to the ground to train hard enough. No exceptions. these guys actually enjoy the pain.

Brilliant and flawless analysis.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Now with passport about the only thing you might get away with is doping your own blood to get that kind of advantage. And now if you overdo the blood it will jack your crit too much and you passport profile trips you up.

Nothing you can do today can give the kind of 20% advantage of EPO that would make in mandatory.

You are conflating what is being used with what they can, and do, test for.

Do you really doubt that a few years from now they will develop tests for substances being used since at least 2009? There are designer drugs that they have no idea exist, much less how to detect, for example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designer_drug

I'd think what you are left with is the possiblily that you might get small changes in crit by taking blood with the risk that you overdo it and get caught. 2 points you may get away with, 5 points, 7 points, you probably won't.

After three weeks and several thousand miles of racing, the last place guy is only a couple of hours behind the leader. The distinctions between riders at this level are actually very slight, as compared to distinctions between people in the population at large. A scientifically immeasurable advantage might be enough to make a significant difference for these guys.

Couple this reality with the fact that it is a documented fact that a large portion of athletes at the highest levels are willing to take measures that they know will kill them within two years, if taking them will first make them world champions in their sports. This kind of drive to win is incomprehensible to most of us peons, but in that context the idea that one of these extreme risk takers might forgo doing something that will give them the edge because it's risky is silly.

At what point does it become too much trouble and risk to get your crit to 45 instead of 43 and do you get enough of a boost for it to matter?

There is no such point for these guys.

 

[CapeRoadie]

Of course Contador dopes! So does Armstrong. So does every pro peloton rider, at one point or another. Why is this difficult to understand?

The blood bags will be flowing for three weeks.

 

[CapeRoadie]

That's one of the best examples of literary fiction I have read for some time.

Agreed. Doping REIGNS in professional and Olympic sport.

 

[CapeRoadie]

There are a lot of disgraced riders making a lot of noise about doping. Where are the "clean" riders standing up? Even LAs' denials sound like a lawyer scripted them.

Ooh, you're onto something there, methinks.

 

[Escarabajo]

The thing said so many times here is that EPO gave such a huge advantage that you either did it or you sucked wheels. The EPO era is over.

Does Antonio Colom ring a Bell? why did he do it if he knew that there was a test for it? Is he the only one wiling to take the risk?

 

[ProfTournesol]

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/20044184/ "German Doctor . . . Opertion Puerto . . . vials with 'A.C' written on them . . . blah blah blah." Similar to the specious clap trap you hear about Armstrong is a doper.

In the spirit of "The official Lance Armstrong hater thread."

For the record I believe both Armstrong and Contador to be clean.

But since the Armstrong haters cling to specious facts that Armstrong doped and worship Contador, not for what he is, but because he is the "Lance slayer" have at it . . .

28 posts a day (according to your stats), do you have any time to work?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Dayum! I'm at 7 a day, and I think I post way too much.

The EPO era is not over. Unless you mean as the prominent drug of choice like it was 1992-2000. It's definitely still used. Just often microdosed, in remote training areas, or newer forms of it used. Keep in mind, there isn't one single type of EPO. There are many kinds, from different manufacturers. Some easier to detect than others.

 

[Sheltowee]

So what does that mean? Does it mean Contador doped and cheated to win the 2007 TDF?

Yes. And let's remember--despite the stuff--he won the Tour by default. He and Leipheimer couldn't handle Rasmussen in the hills.

 

[msjett]

Yes. And let's remember--despite the stuff--he won the Tour by default. He and Leipheimer couldn't handle Rasmussen in the hills.

And here I was thinking that it was because Rasmussen was a **** record keeper! lol

 

[franciep10]

Well I have no proof either way I can't be sure if he doped or if he didn't. Contador is an interesting rider, I haven't seen anybody with the burst of speed that he has while climbing and I mean ever, he has shown vast improvements in his time trialing, and his stamina. Let's not forget he was one of the top prospects in cycling before his life threatening crash so he didn't come out of nowhere. But you have to consider his history he rode for liberty seguros, he was linked to OP, so suspicion is necessary.

 

[Anonymous]

Does Antonio Colom ring a Bell? why did he do it if he knew that there was a test for it? Is he the only one wiling to take the risk?

As I'm sure you have figured out, he must have been caught microdosing his blood and it looks like they used his Passport profile to target him.

He would have had to be a moron to do full doses of CERA knowing it was testable.

Now that has happend, who else to you imagine will try it?

Maybe I should clarify. The era of EPO as a performance enhancer and it's 10 or 20% supposed gains, is OVER.

now nibbling around the edges of getting a point or 2 boost in crit using their own blood, without clear performance advantages is about what's left, and my impression is that without the microdosing of CERA that is VERY risky.

One of the goals of Passport was increase the risk and reduce the awards from manipulated blood.

We got through the GIRO cleanly.

The next month or so will tell us more.

 

[TRDean]

We pretty much got through the Giro cleanly last year remember? It wasn't till later that the positives came about. I do hope your right...that the 10-20% gains are over!

 

[samb01]

Of course Contador dopes! So does Armstrong. So does every pro peloton rider, at one point or another. Why is this difficult to understand?

This is a cop out used by people who are emotionally invested in riders they realize are almost certainly doping. 'Everybody is doing it!', problem solved.

 

[Anonymous]

We pretty much got through the Giro cleanly last year remember? It wasn't till later that the positives came about. I do hope your right...that the 10-20% gains are over!

I figured someone wouldn't remember there was no CERA test in the 08 Giro.
The results were scewed, and Contador still won.

I thought they were going to retest his Giro samples though.

Guess they didn't want to change the result.

Sella was a mule.

 

[Anonymous]

I figured someone wouldn't remember there was no CERA test in the 08 Giro.
The results were scewed, and Contador still won.

I thought they were going to retest his Giro samples though.

Guess they didn't want to change the result.

Sella was a mule.

A mule who with only one foot which was missing a toe could drop you in the distance from your couch to your front door if you were riding. I would suggest that your perception is a bit too influenced by the twitter reference of Mr Armstrong.