Teams & Riders The Pogačar - Van der Poel rivalry

[Berniece]

I would disagree and am not sure how you conclude that MvP is the better one day racer.

MvP is better in Roubaix and MSR.

Flanders is a 50/50 though in the three they’ve competed against each other it’s two one to Pog and MVP did not win that other one as they rode against each other.

Pogacar better in LBL and Lombardia.

However, Pog is far closer to MVP in MVP’s preferred races than MVP is to competing with Pog in his preferred races.

Without being sick, MVDP would've won 3 of the 4 monuments this spring. That's why he is the better one day racer.

 

[Jan the Man]

Without being sick, MVDP would've won 3 of the 4 monuments this spring. That's why he is the better one day racer.

That is an assertion that is both impossible to prove or disprove albeit i will respectfully disagree with you.

 

[Poursuivant]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1916579667441586407

View: https://x.com/StatsOnCycling/status/1916579667441586407

 

[Kwaremonster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1916579667441586407

View: https://x.com/StatsOnCycling/status/1916579667441586407

That is some stat.

Surely mvdp will start declining soon though.

 

[Jan the Man]

That is some stat.

Surely mvdp will start declining soon though.

He’s still relatively young relating to the profile of the races in which he excels. It is not uncommon to see mid 30s compete in Roubaix for example- i would not bank on a decline unless he changes focus, albeit not sure why he would do that and has shown no inclination to do so

 

[hayneplane]

9-8 for Pogacar after Liège. If he rides Lombardia, it will almost surely be 10-8 by the end of this year. Then hopefully both of them ride MSR-RVV-PR in 2026 like this year.

Also 8th monument in a row one of them wins, crazy stats.

Only once in the last 16 monuments has a rider other than MVDP and Pogacar won a race that at least one of that duo finished (MSR 2024 Philipsen). The last occasion was 2022 Paris Roubaix won by Dylan Van Baarle with MVDP finishing 9th.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Boring rivalry, unless one of them dares to race and wins Scheldeprijs I'm not impressed.

 

[Tonton]

It is a rivalry, Matthieu denied Pog at least a MSR and a PR. That in itself is Jedi stuff...

 

[Peyroteo94]

There is really no debate about who is the best classics rider in the world. He has been since 2021 and will be the best for more years. Someone saying the opposite is just natural bias because their favorite rider gets always spanked by Pogacar lately (even slowed down on purpose to not be filmed. This is how badly he got spanked. I know this hurts but it is the hard truth). Facts are there and numbers don't lie, Pogacar will probably have the best monument season ever by the end of this season.

 

[Blanco]

There is really no debate about who is the best classics rider in the world. He has been since 2021 and will be the best for more years. Someone saying the opposite is just natural bias because their favorite rider gets always spanked by Pogacar lately (even slowed down on purpose to not be filmed. This is how badly he got spanked. I know this hurts but it is the hard truth). Facts are there and numbers don't lie, Pogacar will probably have the best monument season ever by the end of this season.

I don't rate him as the best in 2022 and 2023. Other years I agree. Generally he and Van Der Poel are light years ahead of everyone, and it's a tight battle between them. Tadej has a small advantage (1 big win more), and it seems he could increase it at WC and Lombardia, and generally he's the younger one, so it seems logical that he will finish ahead. So we should just watch and enjoy this duel of titans,

 

[Wyndbrook]

Some rivalry, they show each other respect and chat. Lightweights.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I don't rate him as the best in 2022 and 2023. Other years I agree. Generally he and Van Der Poel are light years ahead of everyone, and it's a tight battle between them. Tadej has a small advantage (1 big win more), and it seems he could increase it at WC and Lombardia, and generally he's the younger one, so it seems logical that he will finish ahead. So we should just watch and enjoy this duel of titans,

Pogacar is the best since 2021 even of results weren't great sometimes (due to bad luck - crash and death of his mother in law).

 

[Blanco]

It feels like Pedersen is probably better than Sagan was and yet may retire with fewer major victories.

Pedersen is not one third of a rider Sagan was, and of course he will retire with fewer victories. Heck he's not even better then Golden Greg.
And you seem to forget Sagan fought for years, apart from Van Avermaet, with Cancellara, Gilbert, Kwiatkowski...

 

[Blanco]

Pogacar is the best since 2021 even of results weren't great sometimes (due to bad luck - crash and death of his mother in law).

Everyone has bad luck sometimes, but in that regard Pogacar is the luckiest of all his main opponents...

 

[proffate]

Pedersen is not one third of a rider Sagan was, and of course he will retire with fewer victories. Heck he's not even better then Golden Greg.
And you seem to forget Sagan fought for years, apart from Van Avermaet, with Cancellara, Gilbert, Kwiatkowski...

Good point, Sagan made a habit of losing to Kwia the domestique and old man Gilbert in the biggest races.

 

[Berniece]

He just ended his classics season and he is completely leading this stat. MVP is miles behind so I just ask what metrics do other people use to say MVP is a better classics rider?
Or it is just bias?

UCI Rankings Riders Update | Tadej Pogacar at the very top after another Liège-Bastogne-Liège win

With Flèche Wallonne and Liège-Bastogne-Liège taking place in the past week, there were lots of UCI points awarded. Tadej Pogacar had until now been in a tight battle with Mathieu van der Poel and Mad...

cyclinguptodate.com

There's a dedicated topic for this discussion. Unless you only want opinions in an echo chamber.

He's better because he beat Pogacar in MSR and PR, while only losing RVV because he was sick. Those are 3 monuments our of 5 he would've beaten Pogacar in. If that doesn't matter to you because Pogacar also wins other races, then you should start deciding what's more important to you. A ranking that accumulates points over all races, or only big races. Because you are all over the place in that regard.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

There's a dedicated topic for this discussion. Unless you only want opinions in an echo chamber.

He's better because he beat Pogacar in MSR and PR, while only losing RVV because he was sick. Those are 3 monuments our of 5 he would've beaten Pogacar in. If that doesn't matter to you because Pogacar also wins other races, then you should start deciding what's more important to you. A ranking that accumulates points over all races, or only big races. Because you are all over the place in that regard.

There's absolutely no confidence MVP would've won RVV (he lost their previous meeting actually), it's your bias. Sticking to facts: Pogacar has 3 monuments + WC (which you conveniently omitted), only Merckx had such a resume, while MVP has 2 monuments. Game over, not even close.

Even if we assume that MVP would've won RVV (let's play your game for a moment) then he would've 3 monuments while Pog 2 monuments + WC. It's close but some edge to Pog (as WC is the most important one day race).

 

[Berniece]

There's absolutely no confidence MVP would've won RVV (he lost their previous meeting actually), it's your bias. Sticking to facts: Pogacar has 3 monuments + WC (which you conveniently omitted), only Merckx had such a resume, while MVP has 2 monuments. Game over, not even close.

Even if we assume that MVP would've won RVV (let's play your game for a moment) then he would've 3 monuments while Pog 2 monuments + WC. It's close but some edge to Pog (as WC is the most important one day race).

I didn't omit anything on purpose, I was looking at season 2025, not a rolling window of 1 year. It's just that when these two are at their best and ride against each other in monuments, MVDP wins 3 out of 5. WC depends on the profile, 2023 MVDP would win, 2024 Pogacar would win.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I didn't omit anything on purpose, I was looking at season 2025, not a rolling window of 1 year. It's just that when these two are at their best and ride against each other in monuments, MVDP wins 3 out of 5. WC depends on the profile, 2023 MVDP would win, 2024 Pogacar would win.

Still, it's biased because not all big races are represented in your selected time-windows (conveniently omitted two big ones won by Pog) and we all know that MVP's hunting window is now (he doesn't even dare to appear in Lombardy - apparently the best one-day racer!). Pogacar has the best one-day race resume since 1975 and there's nothing to discuss really. As for WC, the course in 2023 favoured MVP more but he rightfully was regarded as the best one-day racer then (because he held 2 monuments + WC vs Pog's 2 monuments).

 

[Berniece]

Still, it's biased because not all big races are represented in your selected time-windows (conveniently omitted two big ones won by Pog) and we all know that MVP's hunting window is now (he doesn't even dare to appear in Lombardy - apparently the best one-day racer!). Pogacar has the best one-day race resume since 1975 and there's nothing to discuss really. As for WC, the course in 2023 favoured MVP more but he rightfully was regarded as the best one-day racer then (because he held 2 monuments + WC vs Pog's 2 monuments).

Well I was only discussing monuments, if you want to include all races in the world, then sure. We can just look at a PCS ranking and it's clear Pogacar is better because he rides more.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Well I was only discussing monuments, if you want to include all races in the world, then sure. We can just look at a PCS ranking and it's clear Pogacar is better because he rides more.

You clearly repeated multiple times that MVP is the best one-day racer. WC is a one-day race, sorry to tell you that, mate. Anyway it's 3+1 vs 2.

 

[Berniece]

You clearly repeated multiple times that MVP is the best one-day racer. WC is a one-day race, sorry to tell you that, mate.

Yeah, because I believe MVDP is the best one-day racer. I'm just saying that if you want to start including many more races, you win. I'm just saying I'm not following that metric.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Yeah, because I believe MVDP is the best one-day racer. I'm just saying that if you want to start including many more races, you win. I'm just saying I'm not following that metric.

I didn't include any non one-day race, are you ok? Pogacar is the best as far as one-day race results are concerned. That's all I'm saying.

 

[tigabara]

The current best classic rider is Pogacar. Van Der Poel wins in SMR and PR, Pogacar wins in RvV and LBL.

The difference is, Pog race VDP closely in SMR and PR although lost, but VDP does not race in LBL because he probably 'lost before competing'. in Il Lombardia we already know who the ruler is.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Samuel Sánchez is the best one-day racer in this century. Boonen, Cancellara, Sagan, Bettini, Gilbert, Van Avermaet, Alaphilippe, Kwiatkowski, Gerrans, Valverde, Van der Poel, Pogačar and Evenepoel have never won GP Llodio. If you want to start including many more races, you win. I'm just saying I'm not following that metric.