The problems on team saxo bank...

[Ruxen1989]

Sorry for double posting.

The team as it looks like next year until now:

1 Alberto Contador
2 Fabian Cancellara - Might go away (BMC or Lux)?
3 Nicki Sørensen
4 Juan José Haedo
5 Lucas Sebastian Haedo
6 Gustav Larsson
7 Laurent Didier - Might go to Lux.
8 Richie Porte
9 Jonas Aaen
10 Jaroslaw Marycz
11 Michael Mørkøv
12 Chris Anker Sørensen
13 Kasper Klostergaard
14 André Steensen
15 Benjamin Noval
16 Daniel Navarro
17 Jesus Hernandez
18 Brian Vandborg
19 Anders Lund - Might go away.
20 Baden Cooke.

I don't think it looks impressive and if Cancellara leaves now, Riis will be in a bad position. He will have the money to sign good names to the classics he obviously didn't have before but who is left on the marked?
He has climbers and dedicated good help enough to support Contador in Tour de France, but the team for the calssics really isn't worth much (except Canc.)
I'm really excited to see if Porte will do the tour next year. He did really well in the Giro this year.

 

[oronet commander]

I wouldn't expect much love from Rasmussen to Contador after the latter winning a Tour he probably considers it was stolen from him. Why signing him up then?

 

[GroupDK]

Notice I'm 100% danish!!!
and I don't have sympathy with Rasmussen. I don't care about the fact that he has apoligized for some of his rage-fits when he was taken out of the tour and he deserved to get thrown out because he broke rules, he knew very well and then he won't apoligize for that. You don't go out and say that you wish to see others from the cycling world harmed because you are ****ed. He's done.

Something I find ironic and anoying about us danes. We have sympathy with Rasmussen despite his obvious very non-professionel and behaviour when he was pulled out of the tour. Some even defend his reaction and say that it is time to forget. Right now we are kILLING, especially Schleck but also O'Grady for having taken a night out, drinking, and say that it was SOO respectless and not professionel. It was, but I think Andy handled the aftermath very well. He apoligized and said he had made a mistake, accepted the punishment and case closed.
That is what I call the danish doublestandards!

I dont follow your comparison, with schleck contra Rasmussens mistake.

theres a world between them and to make such a comparison, being drunk vs. a doping-sentence is a joke

Ramussen was pull out of the TDF 2007 after the last Time trial where he had keept the yellow jersey and secure the overall TDF victory, but then lose it all after his team Rabobank pull him out, and he have now been banned for over 3 years, because he fuc.ked up his where abouts, and for that got a 2 year doping sentence.

That is what it is, and rules are there for being followed..
To bad for him, and i guess his sentence and the outcome of him being pull out and losing a secure 2007 TDF victory is maximum punishment

and im so tired of danes that got "jantelov" so much up there bottom, and sitting this summer and cheering for Vinokurov and Basso, but can accept there own countrymen.
And have the mentalitet, that all danes are worthless, and can not be happy on others behave, if a fellowdane have succes.

This factor call jantelov is a sad problem here in Denmark and is one aspect, that I as a dane, are sad and disgrace about.

Jantelov = You should not think you are anything, you´r are not better then anyone..
Danmark takes the cake on many factors,
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/member.php?u=16081
but many danes cant feel joy on others happiness & succes.

But back to Rasmussen, off course he should have a second chance, and the reason why others small team has been affraid to take him in, is that the risk not being invited to the big tours.

But this is a factor that the Danish team Saxo bank dosnt have to worry about.

I guess that Saxo bank is one of the first team on ASO invite list (firm behind TDF and others races) , after that Saxo bank the last couple of years have been the team that have created and made these races exciting and intrigen to watch and not to forget the CSC times, with TDF victory.

So if a Danish team with a danish headsponsor sign Rasmussen, this wouldnt change anything for a team of saxo bank size.

The sponsor Saxo bank have also could seen that 88 % of the population in a danish poll, thought that Rasmussen should have a chance and Riis should sign him.

Pat Mquaid, has also been out in the media and stated that Rasmussen was fully eglieble to race, and he fully understand if he Riis give him a chance on the team.
The same with Contador, who also stated that he thinks that Rasmussen should have a chance and wouldn have any problem having him on the team..

If Rasmussen still got some level, he would be a very importen helper for Contador in the mountains and a big name on the team.

 

[Ruxen1989]

I dont follow your comparison, with schleck contra Rasmussens mistake.

theres a world between them and to make such a comparison, being drunk vs. a doping-sentence is a joke

Ramussen was pull out of the TDF 2007 after the last Time trial where he had keept the yellow jersey and secure the overall TDF victory, but then lose it all after his team Rabobank pull him out, and he have now been banned for over 3 years, because he fuc.ked up his where abouts, and for that got a 2 year doping sentence.

That is what it is, and rules are there for being followed..
To bad for him, and i guess his sentence and the outcome of him being pull out and losing a secure 2007 TDF victory is maximum punishment

and im so tired of danes that got "jantelov" so much up there bottom, and sitting this summer and cheering for Vinokurov and Basso, but can accept there own countrymen.
And have the mentalitet, that all danes are worthless, and can not be happy on others behave, if a fellowdane have succes.

This factor call jantelov is a sad problem here in Denmark and is one aspect, that I as a dane, are sad and disgrace about.

Jantelov = You should not think you are anything, you´r are not better then anyone..
Danmark takes the cake on many factors,
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/member.php?u=16081
but many danes cant feel joy on others happiness & succes.

But back to Rasmussen, off course he should have a second chance, and the reason why others small team has been affraid to take him in, is that the risk not being invited to the big tours.

But this is a factor that the Danish team Saxo bank dosnt have to worry about.

I guess that Saxo bank is one of the first team on ASO invite list (firm behind TDF and others races) , after that Saxo bank the last couple of years have been the team that have created and made these races exciting and intrigen to watch and not to forget the CSC times, with TDF victory.

So if a Danish team with a danish headsponsor sign Rasmussen, this wouldnt change anything for a team of saxo bank size.

The sponsor Saxo bank have also could seen that 88 % of the population in a danish poll, thought that Rasmussen should have a chance and Riis should sign him.

Pat Mquaid, has also been out in the media and stated that Rasmussen was fully eglieble to race, and he fully understand if he Riis give him a chance on the team.
The same with Contador, who also stated that he thinks that Rasmussen should have a chance and wouldn have any problem having him on the team..

If Rasmussen still got some level, he would be a very importen helper for Contador in the mountains and a big name on the team.

I didn't compare the cases of Schleck and Rasmussen. I compared the reaction of danes sense of professionalisme. And my point was actually that because Schleck is now leaving Bjarne he sucks and he is not prof. and next year he will do bad. No bad loose for the team as his manners has turned out to be bad and after tour de france he has changed. Funny, Sastre did too in 2008. But Rasmussen with his good history no problem. The reason I don't have sympathy with him is not because of his mistake with the whereabouts. He has been punished for that, case closed. It is his reaction afterwards he screwed it with. Basso admitted his mistake, Vino admitted, Rasmussen didn't and said a lot of very stupid things and that is his problem now. Besides I'm tired of the all the prasing of Bjarne and how any cyclist leaving him turns out to be bad afterwards. There are other teams in the world with good cyclists, good sportdirectors and good sportsmanship. Face it people And notice again. I'm tired of the reaction from the nation paising him like a God, not of Bjarne. Bjarne is without a doubt one of the best Sportdirectors in the world. Come to think of it I think I'm tired of excuses really.

And for the Jantelov. I'm no fan of that either. Anja Andersen f.eks. Not my type of a person but she was the best! And I do cheer for danish cyclists. It could be fun to see Matti Breschel win in the classics next year and I believe he has the ability to do so. And Fuglsang has a good future in front of him. Speaking of Fuglsang I think Janteloven is the reason that many danes don't like him. He believes to much in himself and his talent and therefore he says things as they are. Danes don't like that. I do

 

[ergmonkey]

The team as it looks like next year until now:

1 Alberto Contador
2 Fabian Cancellara - Might go away (BMC or Lux)?
3 Nicki Sørensen
4 Juan José Haedo
5 Lucas Sebastian Haedo
6 Gustav Larsson
7 Laurent Didier - Might go to Lux.
8 Richie Porte
9 Jonas Aaen
10 Jaroslaw Marycz
11 Michael Mørkøv
12 Chris Anker Sørensen
13 Kasper Klostergaard
14 André Steensen
15 Benjamin Noval
16 Daniel Navarro
17 Jesus Hernandez
18 Brian Vandborg
19 Anders Lund - Might go away.
20 Baden Cooke.

I don't think it looks impressive...

Not impressive? I'd like to hear your thoughts on this nine-man GC roster:

1) Contador
2) Navarro
3) Noval
4) Hernandez
5) Porte
6) Chris Anker Sorensen
7) Nicki Sorensen
8) Larsson
9) Cancellara/Cooke/Vandborg

Because, if you ask me, that team should really suck, too. I mean, if they went up against a Merckx-led Molteni or Armstrong USPS team in their primes, then Contador might not win the Tour if it had more than 100kms of flat time trials, fewer summit finishes than normal, and the French allergy season extends uncharacteristically into mid-July. Riis better get his act together...fast. If he's not careful, Denis Menchov, Carlos Sastre, and Team Grand Duchy will surely settle the Tour amongst themselves.

 

[roundabout]

Yes, but Contador is aiming for 2 GT wins next year. And then there are other (stage) races sponsors might be interested in. Guess my point is while it's a good team it's doesn't look particularly deep to perform well the whole year.

 

[Ruxen1989]

Not impressive? I'd like to hear your thoughts on this nine-man GC roster:

1) Contador
2) Navarro
3) Noval
4) Hernandez
5) Porte
6) Chris Anker Sorensen
7) Nicki Sorensen
8) Larsson
9) Cancellara/Cooke/Vandborg

Because, if you ask me, that team should really suck, too. I mean, if they went up against a Merckx-led Molteni or Armstrong USPS team in their primes, then Contador might not win the Tour if it had more than 100kms of flat time trials, fewer summit finishes than normal, and the French allergy season extends uncharacteristically into mid-July. Riis better get his act together...fast. If he's not careful, Denis Menchov, Carlos Sastre, and Team Grand Duchy will surely settle the Tour amongst themselves.

It's not the GC in the big races I think about. they can do well in the vuelta and Tour de france because thats what Contador will go for. Posibly the Giro too with Porte if Porte is not set to go to the tour. But thats is probably about it. The classics are importent races and Bjarne has nothing here besides Cancellara. He doesn't even have the team to support Cancellara to the win. It will be a one man effort then.

 

[ergmonkey]

It's not the GC in the big races I think about. they can do well in the vuelta and Tour de france because thats what Contador will go for. Posibly the Giro too with Porte if Porte is not set to go to the tour. But thats is probably about it. The classics are importent races and Bjarne has nothing here besides Cancellara. He doesn't even have the team to support Cancellara to the win. It will be a one man effort then.

The bottom line in cycling is that if you win the Tour, you've got a very successful team for that season. We might all resent the way it leads to specialists like Armstrong (and, to a lesser extent, Contador), racing abbreviated seasons that end with post-Tour criteriums. But, for corporate sponsors and team managers, winning the Tour is better than everything that Saxo Bank did this year.

I love the Classics; anybody familiar with my posts knows that Cancellara and Boonen are my two favorite active riders. Still, I'm not deluded enough to think that anything even comes close to the Tour if we're talking about the professional side of things.

If a weaker classics team is unappealing to you as a fan, then fine--I get that. It's less appealing to me, too. I just think it's ridiculous to try to turn that argument around to argue that the team manager somehow has a problem as a professional, despite the fact that he's about to dominate the races that matter most.

So, be logically consistent in arguing the priorities you set out. Are we talking about a team that will give an aficionado a wet dream in April, or are we talking about management and future sponsorship problems at Riis Cycling? As long as the Tour is won, Riis Cycling has no problems.

 

[Ruxen1989]

The bottom line in cycling is that if you win the Tour, you've got a very successful team for that season. We might all resent the way it leads to specialists like Armstrong (and, to a lesser extent, Contador), racing abbreviated seasons that end with post-Tour criteriums. But, for corporate sponsors and team managers, winning the Tour is better than everything that Saxo Bank did this year.

I love the Classics; anybody familiar with my posts knows that Cancellara and Boonen are my two favorite active riders. Still, I'm not deluded enough to think that anything even comes close to the Tour if we're talking about the professional side of things.

If a weaker classics team is unappealing to you as a fan, then fine--I get that. It's less appealing to me, too. I just think it's ridiculous to try to turn that argument around to argue that the team manager somehow has a problem as a professional, despite the fact that he's about to dominate the races that matter most.

So, be logically consistent in arguing the priorities you set out. Are we talking about a team that will give an aficionado a wet dream in April, or are we talking about management and future sponsorship problems at Riis Cycling? As long as the Tour is won, Riis Cycling has no problems.

You are right but that is a little boring. Succesfull once or twice in a year and thats it.
- Besides he hasn't won the tour 2011 yet. Everyone are so confident he will win. It will be a huge disaster if he doesn't. the whole team depending on this on three week race and one man. In my eyes Andy Schleck has the same chances to win as Contador next year. You never know what will happen.

 

[Ney the Viking]

I think we will have to wait and see how some of the young guns perform under Riis's wings. I think a lot of people have been impressed by for instance Matti and Porte. Maybe some of the new guys like David Tanner(who just won a stage of tour of china) will perform well when thrown into the big races, I mean Riis has surprised us before right?

I am not saying that Matti and O'grady wont be missed at the classics, but I dont find that Nicki, Larsson, Vandborg and Cooke to be the worst help in flat and medium-hilly terrain? Toss in a few young ones and hope for the best!

Maybe let Porte lead a very young team into the Giro and he can then hopefully be in form for domestique duties at the tour, this will give some more chances for some "early season" success.

Then the spaniards should be good to do Tour and Vuelta and have help from the ones in best shape from the rest of the team.

To me it doesnt sound like a too shabby all-season team.

 

[Ruxen1989]

Changes again

The team as it looks like next year until now:

1 Alberto Contador
2 Fabian Cancellara - Might go away (BMC or Lux)?
3 Nicki Sørensen
4 Juan José Haedo
5 Lucas Sebastian Haedo
6 Gustav Larsson
7 Laurent Didier - Might go to Lux.
8 Richie Porte
9 Jonas Aaen
10 Jaroslaw Marycz
11 Michael Mørkøv
12 Chris Anker Sørensen
13 Kasper Klostergaard
14 André Steensen
15 Benjamin Noval
16 Daniel Navarro
17 Jesus Hernandez
18 Brian Vandborg
19 Anders Lund - Might go away.
20 Baden Cooke.

I don't think it looks impressive and if Cancellara leaves now, Riis will be in a bad position. He will have the money to sign good names to the classics he obviously didn't have before but who is left on the marked?
He has climbers and dedicated good help enough to support Contador in Tour de France, but the team for the calssics really isn't worth much (except Canc.)
I'm really excited to see if Porte will do the tour next year. He did really well in the Giro this year.

I forgot Tanner on this list. And then we got to put a might go away on Porte now too. I just saw that in the transfer threat. He is rumered to team sky.

 

[Christian]

I think C.A. Sorensen might switch to Luxembourg too - he already lives there and rides under a luxembourgish license. He might still have a contract with Riis though, I don't know.

Anyways I always liked Riis and the way he built and managed his team, and I think it is fair to say that the deal he pulled with Contador and his gang was pretty contradictory to what he stood for (at least in my eyes). But I guess desperate times call for desperate measures, and he was sort of forced to do what he did by half of the squad turning their back on him.

But you know everyone always says how great of friends everyone was at Saxo, and I think now we see what was real and what was show. I mean the mood couldn't have been that great, if half the squad decided to turn their back on Riis. It's just sad that it had to end the way it did, with firing, drinking, excluding riders, not talking to them anymore, slanting in newspapers .... everyone involved could have conducted themselves much classier and more professional.

But I do have to say Riis kind of has a track record of going through GC candidates quite rapidly:

Basso (OK, that wasn't his fault. Well, probably partly.)
Sastre
Schlecks
Contador next?

 

[Magnus]

I think C.A. Sorensen might switch to Luxembourg too - he already lives there and rides under a luxembourgish license. He might still have a contract with Riis though, I don't know.

Anyways I always liked Riis and the way he built and managed his team, and I think it is fair to say that the deal he pulled with Contador and his gang was pretty contradictory to what he stood for (at least in my eyes). But I guess desperate times call for desperate measures, and he was sort of forced to do what he did by half of the squad turning their back on him.

But you know everyone always says how great of friends everyone was at Saxo, and I think now we see what was real and what was show. I mean the mood couldn't have been that great, if half the squad decided to turn their back on Riis. It's just sad that it had to end the way it did, with firing, drinking, excluding riders, not talking to them anymore, slanting in newspapers .... everyone involved could have conducted themselves much classier and more professional.

But I do have to say Riis kind of has a track record of going through GC candidates quite rapidly:

Basso (OK, that wasn't his fault. Well, probably partly.)
Sastre
Schlecks
Contador next?

Sastre was on CSC 2002-2008, Frank has been on CSC since 2002, Andy has been on CSC since 2005. 7, 9 and 6 years. That's pretty long contracts imo.

I belive Chris Anker is on contract for 2011 and 2012 (at SBS).
Edit: http://www.feltet.dk/index.php?id_parent=1&id=28&id_nyhed=23815

 

[Ruxen1989]

I think C.A. Sorensen might switch to Luxembourg too - he already lives there and rides under a luxembourgish license. He might still have a contract with Riis though, I don't know.

Anyways I always liked Riis and the way he built and managed his team, and I think it is fair to say that the deal he pulled with Contador and his gang was pretty contradictory to what he stood for (at least in my eyes). But I guess desperate times call for desperate measures, and he was sort of forced to do what he did by half of the squad turning their back on him.

But you know everyone always says how great of friends everyone was at Saxo, and I think now we see what was real and what was show. I mean the mood couldn't have been that great, if half the squad decided to turn their back on Riis. It's just sad that it had to end the way it did, with firing, drinking, excluding riders, not talking to them anymore, slanting in newspapers .... everyone involved could have conducted themselves much classier and more professional.

But I do have to say Riis kind of has a track record of going through GC candidates quite rapidly:

Basso (OK, that wasn't his fault. Well, probably partly.)
Sastre
Schlecks
Contador next?

C.A. Sørensen is for sure staying with SaxoBank. He has published that on his blog on tv2.dk.
But I agree with you. All though Bjarne doesn't go through the captains rapidly but for some reaso it allways with bad scenario and cold atmosphere between Bjarne and the captain leaving him in the end of the season.

Btw. I love your quote by Jens Voigt. He is my favorite in the peleton.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

The team as it looks like next year until now:

1 Alberto Contador
2 Fabian Cancellara - Might go away (BMC or Lux)?
3 Nicki Sørensen
4 Juan José Haedo
5 Lucas Sebastian Haedo
6 Gustav Larsson
7 Laurent Didier - Might go to Lux.
8 Richie Porte
9 Jonas Aaen
10 Jaroslaw Marycz
11 Michael Mørkøv
12 Chris Anker Sørensen
13 Kasper Klostergaard
14 André Steensen
15 Benjamin Noval
16 Daniel Navarro
17 Jesus Hernandez
18 Brian Vandborg
19 Anders Lund - Might go away.
20 Baden Cooke.

I don't think it looks impressive and if Cancellara leaves now, Riis will be in a bad position. He will have the money to sign good names to the classics he obviously didn't have before but who is left on the marked?
He has climbers and dedicated good help enough to support Contador in Tour de France, but the team for the calssics really isn't worth much (except Canc.)
I'm really excited to see if Porte will do the tour next year. He did really well in the Giro this year.

exactly. I've been saying this for a while now. riis must be out of money in a big way after signing contador. let's not forget there's a ttt next year and contadors friends aren't exactly specalist and with cancellara leaving 99% I think it would be disastrous

 

[Ney the Viking]

exactly. I've been saying this for a while now. riis must be out of money in a big way after signing contador. let's not forget there's a ttt next year and contadors friends aren't exactly specalist and with cancellara leaving 99% I think it would be disastrous

Even without Spartacus they do have people that can put out a good TTT. Contador himself isnt shabby in that department. I have always considered his spanish friends technically good with their bikes, so with some good drilling I think they will carry their weight, especially if the course is a bit technical and not just 30km down a highway, sure they will not win it by themselves but I doubt they will be too bad.

Then theres Larsson who I think anyone would want on their TTT team, Nicki ought to be a decent motor as well. Then there's Porte who on a good day will be a benifit. They got the option of Mørkov as well if they feel like it, and he should definitly be a really good guy in a TTT considering his track skills, though he may not be on the roster for a GT.

So 4 guys that is a definite benifit in a TTT 5 with Spartacus, 3 spaniards who carry their weight, and then a last guy who will probably be Chris who'm I think would struggle the most. Or if they really go for help on the flat parts and think the spanish guys can take care of the mountains themselves they can go for Mørkov and have 6 good TTT guys and 3 climbers. 5 good TTT guys and 4 climbers without Spartacus. Yes emminemt disaster, the whole season is lost before it even begins

 

[joy118118]

Nicki is said to contact with HTC and Geox.

 

[lostincosmos]

i'm sort of having trouble figuring out if riis needs to worry terribly about TTT next year. i mean, let's face it, contador's main threat is andy, and andy's team, from what we know about it, won't be a TTT powerhouse either i don't think - even if they end up with spartacus.

i think "good enough" will work for SBS next year. the teams that will beat them in a TTT (HTC, Garmin) don't have anyone that can't be dispatched in the mountains later on.

crazy?