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Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
Red Rick said:
Djokovic d. Pouille 6-0 6-2 6-2

This final better be good.
I see Djoko Nadal went 5 hours at WImbledon already.

So maybe we can see a repeat of arguably the greatest match of all time, 7 years ago here.

The BBC will always make sure 2008 wimbledon is seen as the greatest match ever, because that was their event, but I think those without those party ties may see the Djoko Nadal thing, the piece de resistance of a rivalry that surely now ranks above Djoko Federer and Nadal Federer, as the best match in history.
Most dramatic matches of all time? Probably. Best? Not in my opinion.

I've long considered Djokovic/Nadal the best rivalry in tennis. Djokovic/Federer is also better, and Federer/Nadal is much closer to Djokovic/Murray than the others.

Now most of the legend of the Fedal rivarly comes from the fact that they got there first. Djokovic has been the third wheel, always has been, and doesn't get the attention he deserves compared to Fed and Nadal because of that.

As for the final, both are in better form than in Wimbledon. I think Djokovic is the favorite to win here.
 
Re:

tobydawq said:
https://twitter.com/ATP_Tour/status/1089511083109425152
So pathetic, mocking a man because of his accent while he's speaking in a foreign language while doing his job. And then laughing at your own joke. But what else can one expect from the biggest fake tennis player these days.
 
Re: Re:

DenisMenchov said:
tobydawq said:
https://twitter.com/ATP_Tour/status/1089511083109425152
So pathetic, mocking a man because of his accent while he's speaking in a foreign language while doing his job. And then laughing at your own joke. But what else can one expect from the biggest fake tennis player these days.
He just won a Grand Slam. He should be allowed to be in a silly mood. And it was funny, so there's no need to not laugh.

He even said sorry and seemed like he knew the journalist.
 
Re: Re:

tobydawq said:
DenisMenchov said:
tobydawq said:
https://twitter.com/ATP_Tour/status/1089511083109425152
So pathetic, mocking a man because of his accent while he's speaking in a foreign language while doing his job. And then laughing at your own joke. But what else can one expect from the biggest fake tennis player these days.
He just won a Grand Slam. He should be allowed to be in a silly mood. And it was funny, so there's no need to not laugh.

He even said sorry and seemed like he knew the journalist.
So, if you're successful at something, it's okay to be a jerk? Also if you say sorry afterwards? Yeah, he said sorry, and mocked him right after it... For me it wasn't funny at all.
 
Re: Re:

del1962 said:
Red Rick said:
Djokovic wins 6-3 6-2 6-2.

Really disappointing match. Disappointing tournament on the men's side. At least they got some mileage out of hyping young players
So Red Rick do you think Djokovic can match Federer's number of Grand Slams?
I have no doubt Nadal or Djokovic could get there.

There's simply nobody close to the level of Djokovic and Nadal right now, and I don't think there are any players that can get there, so we're basically waiting for those 2 to drop off further.

So the main question is where Nadal goes from here. He made the finals without losing a set after 4 months without competition. But we've seen that beating everyone else doesn't mean anything vs Djokovic, and right now Djokovic' movement is much better on HC than Nadal's.

Federer had his last great run at 35/36. But people really forget how good he was from Wimbeldon 2015/Australian Open 2016 at 33. His stats over that period were absolutely great and he walked away with no Grand Slams and a single ATP 1000 title because Djokovic was there to beat him every single time.

Djokovic will have no younger ATG to beat him there. His game is gonna age alright because his serving is still improving, his return will always be great and his defense is incredibly efficient. He has a game barely any weaknesses a lesser player can exploit, and if you see the way that he raises his games for Grand Slams I have a very hard time seeing anyone but Nadal beat him anywhere for a while.

I think Federer's only hope to hang on to the record is that Djokovic and Nadal cannibalise each other completely.
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
del1962 said:
Red Rick said:
Djokovic wins 6-3 6-2 6-2.

Really disappointing match. Disappointing tournament on the men's side. At least they got some mileage out of hyping young players
So Red Rick do you think Djokovic can match Federer's number of Grand Slams?
I have no doubt Nadal or Djokovic could get there.

There's simply nobody close to the level of Djokovic and Nadal right now, and I don't think there are any players that can get there, so we're basically waiting for those 2 to drop off further.

So the main question is where Nadal goes from here. He made the finals without losing a set after 4 months without competition. But we've seen that beating everyone else doesn't mean anything vs Djokovic, and right now Djokovic' movement is much better on HC than Nadal's.

Federer had his last great run at 35/36. But people really forget how good he was from Wimbeldon 2015/Australian Open 2016 at 33. His stats over that period were absolutely great and he walked away with no Grand Slams and a single ATP 1000 title because Djokovic was there to beat him every single time.

Djokovic will have no younger ATG to beat him there. His game is gonna age alright because his serving is still improving, his return will always be great and his defense is incredibly efficient. He has a game barely any weaknesses a lesser player can exploit, and if you see the way that he raises his games for Grand Slams I have a very hard time seeing anyone but Nadal beat him anywhere for a while.

I think Federer's only hope to hang on to the record is that Djokovic and Nadal cannibalise each other completely.
Only injuries can stop it I think and even then they would have to be chronic injuries. Nadal especially has already showed plenty of wear and tear and Murray, now talking about a comeback, has already had his career derailed. The women have showed new talent emerging and winning on the the big four tournaments or at least top 10 players making a breakthrough.
 
2014 and 2015 really changed things in terms of who could finish with most GS titles. Djokovic beat Federer in three slam finals. The 2014 and 2015 and Wimbledon and the 2015 US Open. Djokovic had a stellar 2011, digressed in 2012 and 2013, but found his mark again 2014 and 2015. Wawrinka helped Federer in the three times he won his slams, he beat Djokovic en route, twice in the finals. The other times, Djokovic and Nadal took turns beating up on each other. On one hand Federer is fortunate to have had those two guys trade blows with neither one, at least in GS's, take a major advantage in terms of titles, but on the other, Federer lost tight matches to Djokovic in 14/15. He choked against Raonic in Wimbledon 2016, but played well the following year and Cilic wasn't himself with the injuries in the final. One figured that the 2017 AO final was a turning point as well. Federer got the better of Nadal. Last year Federer beat Cilic in an inconsistent 5 set final.

For me, there is nobody right now that I can say 'oh year, he will end up with the most GS.' Federer is by far the oldest, and the one likely to stop winning. Nadal would need 4 and Djokovic 6, to pass Federer. Nadal has had more injury problems, but he could still snatch Roland Garros. Djokovic and the AO seem to go hand in hand.

This all means that there hasn't been a whole lot of competition for these guys over the last 10-15 years. Federer first won a slam in 2003!!! Nadal in 2005. Djokovic in 2008. My point is, as popular as those guys are, the sport needs young guys (though I have no idea what 'young' really means in tennis) to step up and challenge.
 
Ofcourse tennis needs young dudes.

But now every player under the age of 25 who so much as farts into the general direction of Federer gets hyped as the next big thing. I feel like tennis has overdone it and jumps on players way too early.
 
The Slam race was never really over, though before the Aussie Open final 2014 I did consider Nadal a big favorite to take it. Djokovic messed up the worst after winning RG in 2016.

Ofcourse tennis needs young dudes.

But now every player under the age of 25 who so much as farts into the general direction of Federer gets hyped as the next big thing. I feel like tennis has overdone it and jumps on players way too early.
 
A lot easier job for Đoković in the final than I expected. In fact, I wasn't sure whose job it was going to be, based on the course of the tournament. Congrats.
Tennis is enormous in every sense for some time already, and I'm not surprised to newcomers are being jumped on the moment they show promise. The first who puts hand on a new champion is in great advantage. That's adding the pressure even more.
Maybe we should look back in order to predict the future of tennis... Compare the rivalries of past and present and try to figure out the succession. It's not some kind of magic, just the way the sport spins.
The Slam race surely motivates Đoković and Nadal, and there are the Olympics next year that represent another benchmark of greatness. So, plenty to play for.
Looking forward to RG..
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
del1962 said:
Red Rick said:
Djokovic wins 6-3 6-2 6-2.

Really disappointing match. Disappointing tournament on the men's side. At least they got some mileage out of hyping young players
So Red Rick do you think Djokovic can match Federer's number of Grand Slams?
I have no doubt Nadal or Djokovic could get there.

There's simply nobody close to the level of Djokovic and Nadal right now, and I don't think there are any players that can get there, so we're basically waiting for those 2 to drop off further.

So the main question is where Nadal goes from here. He made the finals without losing a set after 4 months without competition. But we've seen that beating everyone else doesn't mean anything vs Djokovic, and right now Djokovic' movement is much better on HC than Nadal's.

Federer had his last great run at 35/36. But people really forget how good he was from Wimbeldon 2015/Australian Open 2016 at 33. His stats over that period were absolutely great and he walked away with no Grand Slams and a single ATP 1000 title because Djokovic was there to beat him every single time.

Djokovic will have no younger ATG to beat him there. His game is gonna age alright because his serving is still improving, his return will always be great and his defense is incredibly efficient. He has a game barely any weaknesses a lesser player can exploit, and if you see the way that he raises his games for Grand Slams I have a very hard time seeing anyone but Nadal beat him anywhere for a while.

I think Federer's only hope to hang on to the record is that Djokovic and Nadal cannibalise each other completely.
Federer might still sneak another Wimbledon, but it's looking like his last couple of unexpected Australian Open crowns are vital in the Slam race. Even imagining if just Rafa had beaten him in 2017; that's 19, 18, 15....painting an entirely different picture.

As it is, I think that Djokovic now has a better chance of catching Federer than Nadal. The next GS is really a must win for Rafa (and I think that Djokovic is almost equal favourite given the confidence he will gain from the straight sets AO win). He isn't as successful on grass as Djokovic, who arguably now has his measure on hardcourt, and his body is imo much more likely to breakdown. Seeing Rafa get to 20 or beyond if he doesn't win this French Open is almost impossible. On the other hand, winning a 12th title will keep his unbeatable aura on clay going for at least another year, and help with confidence on the other surfaces. Novak pretty much has an unbeatable aura at the moment anywhere, and doesn't need any extra confidence. Winning another 2 slams this season seems quite likely, which would take him to 17, with another AO on the horizon. He needs to be within 2 of Federer by the end of 2020 to have a chance imo.

In the other GS race, Serena was pretty damn unlucky with that ankle issue coming on match point against Pliskova. She surely would have won that quarter final without it. As it is, she has played far better post pregnancy than I thought possible, and will be a great chance to win Wimbledon this year (but watch out for Kvitova). She probably won't win at Roland Garros though, and there are a lot of strong women on hardcourt.
 
It is interesting. I can imagine all 3 finishing on 20 even.

Nadal is likely to get RG this year.

RG next year as well and he's just one away then.

Djokovic, well he would need to continue his tear for a couple more years.

Fed is still the favourite though. If only because he already has the 20. Nadal and Djokovic still need to maintain their best for a few more years.

Though if one were to step aside it might make it easier for the other.


Looking at the weeks at 1 list, Nadal is way behind, but Djoker could catch Fed with 1 and a half more years. And he's pretty much guaranteed to hold number 1 at least for another half a year (since Nadal has to defend RG), so he would only need to bring his best for a few months from June onwards, and he might be able to coast to that.

Is there a stat such as - total career ATP points?
 
You could use total career points and I have seen people use something similar, but I don't think it's great. You really get stuff like Murray being higher than Sampras or something, and while I think Murray would win a bunch more Slams in any other era, putting him ahead of Sampras is a bridge too far

Djokovic is a massive favorite to break the weeks at #1.
 
Re:

DenisMenchov said:
I hope Nadal breaks the 20 mark. Also I hoping that Đoković doesn't win another one :D, he's the only guy less sympathetic than Fed
Pressure will change dramatically for RG. The way I see it, Australia was a must win for Djokovic if he wants to break the record, and now RG is a must win for Nadal.

Most likely scenario for me is that Slams go Djokovic/Nadal/Djokovic/Djokovic and that next year the record chase hype is gonna reach crazy heights
 
I don't know, when you think something will go one way in tennis, it usually goes the other (Roland Garros excluded). Everyone thought Đoko was done, but he won 3 Slams in a row. No one saw Nadal coming back this strong after his 2016 season, Fed winning another Slam last year and not to mention Wawrinka factor... The young guys must come once. Hopefully at Wimbledon they break this circle.
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
DenisMenchov said:
I hope Nadal breaks the 20 mark. Also I hoping that Đoković doesn't win another one :D, he's the only guy less sympathetic than Fed
Pressure will change dramatically for RG. The way I see it, Australia was a must win for Djokovic if he wants to break the record, and now RG is a must win for Nadal.

Most likely scenario for me is that Slams go Djokovic/Nadal/Djokovic/Djokovic and that next year the record chase hype is gonna reach crazy heights

Assuming Federer is done. What if he wins one more slam?
 
Re: Re:

DenisMenchov said:
I don't know, when you think something will go one way in tennis, it usually goes the other (Roland Garros excluded). Everyone thought Đoko was done, but he won 3 Slams in a row. No one saw Nadal coming back this strong after his 2016 season, Fed winning another Slam last year and not to mention Wawrinka factor... The young guys must come once. Hopefully at Wimbledon they break this circle.
Wimbledon has been the biggest stranglehold of the Big 3 by far, and it's their least likely Slam to lose. Grass depends the least on baseline tennis, and is more serve+return dependent and none of the young guys have a great serve/return combo.


BullsFan22 said:
Red Rick said:
DenisMenchov said:
I hope Nadal breaks the 20 mark. Also I hoping that Đoković doesn't win another one :D, he's the only guy less sympathetic than Fed
Pressure will change dramatically for RG. The way I see it, Australia was a must win for Djokovic if he wants to break the record, and now RG is a must win for Nadal.

Most likely scenario for me is that Slams go Djokovic/Nadal/Djokovic/Djokovic and that next year the record chase hype is gonna reach crazy heights

Assuming Federer is done. What if he wins one more slam?
If Fed wins one more, that moves the goal posts for #Slams and age at which one can win Slams. But there's no way I see it happening. The drop in level this time hasn't been due to injury, and it's not just Djokovic stopping him from winning Slams like in 2014-2016. His return stats have been so bad it's not funny, and at the higher bouncing HC I'm not sure if he is still a top 10 player.
 
Re:

Red Rick said:
You could use total career points and I have seen people use something similar, but I don't think it's great. You really get stuff like Murray being higher than Sampras or something, and while I think Murray would win a bunch more Slams in any other era, putting him ahead of Sampras is a bridge too far

Djokovic is a massive favorite to break the weeks at #1.
What are the career point totals. If murray beat Samprass despite -11 Grand slmas then that is really impressive

I never liked M, and was a PP fan but lets be honest, in his prime he takes prime the American. Like how the current top 10 marathon runners beat the 90's wr holders
 
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