The Cycling News forum is still looking to add volunteer moderators with. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to
In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.
Thanks!
andy1234 said:If some of the more senior members took off their anti doping, anti Armstrong\LeMond (you choose), anti whoever hat for two minutes and listened before posting, they may just see that there are some valid points to be made.
I Watch Cycling In July said:Any chance that this kind of thread could be opened in the "about the forum" section, not the clinic?
I can't possible be the only person here who is so OVER this debate.
Mongol_Waaijer said:Stupidity and the inability or unwillingness to think critically lies at the heart of our frustrations.
It just gets so tiring to see the same old repudiated "spin" soiling the forum on an hourly basis by people whose ignorance of cycling directly corresponds to the fervour of their belief in the illogical.
As with many areas of life's rich tapestry, why should the opinions of vapid simians who soil the forum with their presence be given equal respect to those of us who have been involved in bike racing for years and have a thirst for knowledge, tempered by our experiences of the less salubrious side of the sport?
BroDeal said:Let us know when you decide to make one.
andy1234 said:When someone describes someone as "vapid simians who soil the forum with their presence" your kind of proving my point. Its fuels to the Trolls and damages the Forum.
Mongol_Waaijer said:Stupidity and the inability or unwillingness to think critically lies at the heart of our frustrations.
It just gets so tiring to see the same old repudiated "spin" soiling the forum on an hourly basis by people whose ignorance of cycling directly corresponds to the fervour of their belief in the illogical.
As with many areas of life's rich tapestry, why should the opinions of vapid simians who soil the forum with their presence be given equal respect to those of us who have been involved in bike racing for years and have a thirst for knowledge, tempered by our experiences of the less salubrious side of the sport?
straydog said:I honestly don't know which "trolls" you thought you were ridiculing with this statement, so I won't presume to decide for you, but actually I think what you have said is a pretty eloquent definition....
One thing....despite myself "being involved in bike racing for many years" and also having a fair amount of experience "of the less salubrious side of the sport", I don't think that anyone who has less experience isn't entitled to their opinion. I may feel smug that they are in need of educating, or are ignorant, or blinkered, or simplistic, or misguided, or biased....but they are entitled to their opinion....and i am entitled to feel smug. This is after all a "forum", a dedicated space for public "discussion"....but a lot of people here, it seems, want to defy argument ....they only want to hear one opinion....one set of mantras endlessly repeated without any access to reasoning or questioning...and that doesn't sound like a forum....that sounds like a cult
I for one, am happy to raise my voice, lone or otherwise, against the idiocy I hear coming from the fundamentalists who belong the cult of "hate".
"the term fundamentalism was originally coined to describe a narrowly defined set of beliefs that developed into a movement"....those black and white arguments....dopers evil....it all started with LA....he probably invented cancer....without the dope he wouldn't even have made it it as a Pro....whatever "fact" you choose to cling onto, to fuel your hate is fine with me if it works for you.
Do you know what will never go away though? Even now your bad guy, the devil, has retired?
Your hate....it will remain....eating you up....and when you have run out of scapegoats and targets to direct it at....there will only be that angry little face staring back at you from the mirror. And that my friends is why the world will always need therapists.
Mongol_Waaijer said:Yes I do hate immorality, corruption, dishonesty, bigotry and all the other joys that sociopaths and the ignorant bring to our species. And I thirst for knowledge, facts, theories, evidence on an objective basis, not for emotional reassurance.
But your post seems to imply that my objections to what is demonstrably wrong makes me a miserable hater in need of therapy. Imagine if noone in the world had ever stood up for knowledge, truth, freedom and fairness etc.
The more people there are who are angry about injustice, the more chance we have to remedy such wrongs. Switching off our anger for an easier emotional life allows such corruption to flourish. Worse still is the nonsensical "each opinion is of equal worth" idiocy that means the point of view of a simpleton must carry equal weight to an expert. Take that doctrine to extremes and we wouldn't even have bike racing....
Imagine also that this is a forum where many biologists discuss events in evolutionary biology. Let's say that hundreds of people who know way less than us come to this forum to bait and provoke with proven incorrect and illogical theories in defence of the religious charlatans who spout their preferred brand of nonsense.
Is it wrong to get frustrated?
I think this is the perfect analogy. And frustration is exactly what it is...Mongol_Waaijer said:Worse still is the nonsensical "each opinion is of equal worth" idiocy that means the point of view of a simpleton must carry equal weight to an expert. Take that doctrine to extremes and we wouldn't even have bike racing....
Imagine also that this is a forum where many biologists discuss events in evolutionary biology. Let's say that hundreds of people who know way less than us come to this forum to bait and provoke with proven incorrect and illogical theories in defence of the religious charlatans who spout their preferred brand of nonsense.
Is it wrong to get frustrated?
andy1234 said:The reason for so many trolls?
Since so many peple on these forums are tired of the Trolling that goes on, let me give my thoughts on why the problem here is so bad.
Anyone making a statement or asking a question on here, that isnt a popular view, immediately gets aggressive questioning on motives behind a post and often patronised at the same time... Its so incrediblly easy to start a fight here because many members are so easily inflamed. Its such a black and white environment, it leaves no room for discussion.
Thoughtforfood said:Fact is, some of you are taking yourselves WAY too seriously. In case you guys have not noticed, this is a forum...it has about as much importance as melba toast in reality. Lighten up Frances
Thoughtforfood said:Fact is, some of you are taking yourselves WAY too seriously. In case you guys have not noticed, this is a forum...it has about as much importance as melba toast in reality. Lighten up Frances!
Righteous crusaders against the injustice of "haters." (Hey look, a rhyme!) Okay, if you find that to be something worthy of pursuit, go for it I guess....
Martin318is said:I've moved this as it has little to do with the clinic.
While I am here though, I will say that I actually agree with a lot of what the original poster said. When a completely unkonwn new member comes here and posts for the first time - IF they are dumb enough to post on one of the big trigger topics, then a lot of guys here will jump straight down their throat with all the anti-fanboy, or bpc, or public strategies, etc ,etc allegations. They completely ignore any valid points in the post that was made in much the same manner that BroDeal has done above. (sorry BroDeal but its an obvious comparison)
The newbie defends themselves and then if they choose their words badly they then get flamed for supposedly intentionally being a troll.
From what I saw moderating the forums in the last month, I PERSONALLY thought that about 1 in 4 or even 1 in 5 people who were accused of trolling actually were trolls. The rest were the wrong guy in the wrong place at teh wrong time.
Just sayin...
andy1234 said:The reason for so many trolls?
Since so many people on these forums are tired of the Trolling that goes on, let me give my thoughts on why the problem here is so bad.
Anyone making a statement or asking a question on here, that isn't a popular view, immediately gets aggressive questioning on motives behind a post and often patronised at the same time.
Anyone coming in here with an open mind, very quickly has to choose sides or risk being overwhelmed by this attitude. Its fight or give up.
Now, other forums I have been a member of, allow for a fair amount of debate on a subject with each poster being given some room to breath, as long as they can present themselves and their views rationally and politely. If not, they are ignored.
This really is not the case here.
I would imagine that the more senior members of the forum will claim that the attitude taken towards posters is as a result of all the Trolling that has taken place previously.
I personally think that its the attitude of some of the senior posters that creates such an easy environment for Trolls to act. Its so incrediblly easy to start a fight here because many members are so easily inflamed. Its such a black and white environment, it leaves no room for discussion.
I think that a lot of the posters who shield themselves beneath the anti doping umbrella, actually thrive in an environment that allows them to display their rightous indignation so frequently. Why would they chose to follow a sport that has such a tradition of doping (or publicity of). The vociferous support of anti doping provides a platform to demonstrate time and time again what an upstanding individual they are.
Getting back to the Trolling problem...
If some of the more senior members took off their anti doping, anti Armstrong\LeMond (you choose), anti whoever hat for two minutes and listened before posting, they may just see that there are some valid points to be made. They may also be able to identify more clearly those who are just out to enflame and in doing so nip some of the Trolling in the bud.
Andy
straydog said:"IF they are dumb enough"...."if they choose their words badly"....I know you were trying to agree with the OP....but these comments hardly seem "moderate"
I can assure you I am not dumb....did i want to provoke some sensible debate on what i know to be a contentious issue and debunk some myths? You bet.
And I choose my words very, very, carefully....if those words annoy some....it doesn't make them badly chosen.
Dr. Maserati said:You do raise a good point in that many get 'trigger happy' - but this is because lots are awaiting todays visit from BPC, which is unfair on innocent new users.
However on all your other points you are painting with a broad brush, "senior members", or those from the "anti-doping" brigade - either you are talking about trolling from all members or sides or not.
Yesterday you asked a fair and reasonable question in the LeMond thread - and it was answered in a fair and reasonable manner, but then you changed the terms of what information you were looking for which appeared to suit a preconceived notion- it is not unreasonable for other posters to then question your motives.
Nor does it help that your very first post was to start the thread, "Why do you dislike Armstrong?" - but then make the remark, , but it doesn't bring me to hate the guy." - when you ask an inflammatory question, expect an inflammatory response.
You want to debate or argue a point - then stick on the point, not the posters.
straydog said:those black and white arguments....dopers evil....it all started with LA....he probably invented cancer....without the dope he wouldn't even have made it it as a Pro....whatever "fact" you choose to cling onto, to fuel your hate is fine with me if it works for you.
And one other thing MW.....my "experience" does tell me this....I can spot a fake a mile off....a legend in their own lunchtime....some of the postings you have made regarding doping and athletic performance need a little bit more googling if you don't want to appear really ignorant. And no matter how much you google, it won't make you something you are not.
straydog said:And I choose my words very, very, carefully....if those words annoy some....it doesn't make them badly chosen.