Teams & Riders The Red Bull - Bora - Hansgrohe team thread

[theyoungest]

Red Bull – BORA – hansgrohe and Rolf Aldag realign their sporting direction

Red Bull – BORA – hansgrohe and Rolf Aldag have mutually agreed to end their collaboration at the end of this month following a successful Tour de France.

www.redbullborahansgrohe.com

It is in fact the most bureaucratic way of saying 'we've kicked this guy to the curb' I think I've ever seen.

A re-alignment of sporting direction!

Telekom need a new mid-90s guy to maintain continuity, I suggest Udo Bölts, who as far as I know hasn't been seen since his stint at Gerolsteiner.

What in the LinkedIn is this... a "realignment of sporting direction".

Rolf Aldag is known to be one of the more oldschool guys on that team, so it's no surprise that at some point a team that's trying to modernize gets rid of him. On the other hand, when you get rid of everyone who defined your team culture it may all become a bit soulless and directionless.

 

[red_flanders]

What in the LinkedIn is this... a "realignment of sporting direction".

Rolf Aldag is known to be one of the more oldschool guys on that team, so it's no surprise that at some point a team that's trying to modernize gets rid of him. On the other hand, when you get rid of everyone who defined your team culture it may all become a bit soulless and directionless.

Can't argue with that, but not sure the underlying premise is valid? Do they have a great team culture and was Aldag a big part of setting it? Kinda wonder given what snippets I've seen from him. Generally haven't been impressed.

Sounds to me like Vanthourenhout could be a big upgrade.

I dunno. Others' thoughts?

 

[staubsauger]

Aldag earned his laurels with Cavendish at HTC. After that there actually wasn't much impressive apart from Cav's 2016 resurgence at Dimension Data.

Aldags time is over. This is the 3x time (Dimension Data, Bahrain, Bora) he has been given the chance to back up on his earlier success as a sports director and he couldn't prove it. At one point the writing is on the wall.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

I mean the writing has been on the wall for a while for Aldag so no surprise there.
Having said that, I didn't expect RB to act so quickly after the TdF. I think the gloves are about to come off for RB, they gave it some time but overall the results just weren't there. They'll quickly now want to replace more of the old structure.

 

[peterfin]

Vanthourenhout confirms that he will be in charge of the sports teams at RBH.

 

[proffate]

Are you saying bad luck, crashes, and sickness are like a sign from heaven that you're not supposed to be a GT rider? Are we at that level of discourse?

Yes, crashing a lot makes you a worse GT rider, as does being prone to sickness. Don't tell me you think crashing is mostly about luck.

 

[AlpRaid]

Fascinating the evolution of the remco-vanthourenhout relationship. all anger and pissed off after the "misunderstanding" of 2021 WC.

Then remco wins 1 road WC, 2 WC ITTs, and both olympic golds, and suddenly vanthourenhout knows where he needs to align himself.

really, really hope Pelgrim will be replaced. remco needs fresh re-think.

 

[Links2003]

I mean the writing has been on the wall for a while for Aldag so no surprise there.
Having said that, I didn't expect RB to act so quickly after the TdF. I think the gloves are about to come off for RB, they gave it some time but overall the results just weren't there. They'll quickly now want to replace more of the old structure.

The separation from Aldag was certainly not a spontaneous decision. I don’t know, of course, whether he was informed beforehand. But since there had been rumors circulating for some time about possible successors, it was ultimately just a logical step. Especially considering it's important not to make the cut only at the end of the year, as the strategy for the following year is already set by autumn and winter. So it makes sense that the successor should already be part of the team by then.
The Tour was certainly one of the best races of the year. That alone wouldn’t be a reason for parting ways. Jai’s win at the Giro was an outstanding team effort. Second place for Martinez and third for Lipo were more individual achievements. The team wasn’t really set up for that—many riders weren’t in shape or healthy. That’s not something Aldag was directly responsible for. Nor for the race tactics, since he was rarely the sports director during the races. If you want to take a new path in general, now’s a good moment. Still, it seems odd, especially right after such a big success.

 

[Wyndbrook]

Maybe Red Bull corporate pulling the strings and taking more control of their sporting investments. Just happened in F1.

 

[red_flanders]

Still, it seems odd, especially right after such a big success.

Fair, but...I think as @Unterlenkerfahrend (say that 3 times fast) mentioned, this seems to have been in the works for a while, and really is independent of Lipo's success, which as you point out, was just individual strength.

My read is that they've wanted something different at the DS level for some time, found a guy who they really like, and when that happened, made the move. You gotta grab the talent when you can. There's going to be a lot of new energy in the team with Remco coming on board, and they probably want someone who can set the direction, set the tone, and make some difficult decisions at the organizational level.

Whatever one thinks about the decisions of Vanthourenhout over the years, he's run an organization which has faced that kind of decision-making, and has had to work to balance the ambitions of multiple champions. Certainly a good resume for the role, more than enough to get him the interview. All TBD in terms of how well it works, but I can understand some of the possible considerations and why SV was a candidate.

As an aside, I keep forgetting they also have Van Gils. Lots of potential there as well. Hell of a team.

 

[Berniece]

Fascinating the evolution of the remco-vanthourenhout relationship. all anger and pissed off after the "misunderstanding" of 2021 WC.

Then remco wins 1 road WC, 2 WC ITTs, and both olympic golds, and suddenly vanthourenhout knows where he needs to align himself.

really, really hope Pelgrim will be replaced. remco needs fresh re-think.

Where did you read Pelgrim was moving to Bora too?

 

[AlpRaid]

Where did you read Pelgrim was moving to Bora too?

I didn’t.

Not sure if Pelgrim is a QS employee or individually hired by Remco.

He needs some new input for his training and prep imo.

 

[Karl Merckx]

Pelgrim is a QS employee.

 

[LongtimeLurker]

Vanthourenhout confirms that he will be in charge of the sports teams at RBH.

No he is not.

 

[Statze2]

Vanthourenhout will be a Sports Director for the Development Team in 2025 and in 2026 he will be a Sports Director for the World Tour Team. in the official press Statement on the Teams Website Nobody is Talking about him as a replacment for Aldag. It Looks Like he will be a normal Sports Director.

 

[peterfin]

Vanthourenhout will be a Sports Director for the Development Team in 2025 and in 2026 he will be a Sports Director for the World Tour Team. in the official press Statement on the Teams Website Nobody is Talking about him as a replacment for Aldag. It Looks Like he will be a normal Sports Director.

They neither talk about an assistant sports director role so he will be part of the leadership team. His role in 2025 is clearly to get to know each other. We will see what they communicate later. Ad-interim Gasparotto may be the official head of sport.

 

[Gargamel35]

It's a classic power struggle when new management (Red Bull) wants new people despite old management results are not bad at all. And then they hope/think, things will magically improve, despite cutting "old" ones out usually means others leave too and you can't compete any more. Directors have no direct control over team operations despite their name suggest otherwise. They can bring people in/out and basically hope things will work out. And owners usually hold them back from big moves, because...money.

Then they cut old out and bring in someone of their own and suddenly money is available, new talent is brought in and lord behold, results improve (not always, but they don't have a problem with that, because director is one of their own). Well you don't need new management to do that, but hey, corporative ideas are never logical anyway.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

Maybe Red Bull corporate pulling the strings and taking more control of their sporting investments. Just happened in F1.

I've said that since they came on board; they'll evaluate the team/ staff, then make the decisions needed..........

 

[Berniece]

Vanthourenhout will be a Sports Director for the Development Team in 2025 and in 2026 he will be a Sports Director for the World Tour Team. in the official press Statement on the Teams Website Nobody is Talking about him as a replacment for Aldag. It Looks Like he will be a normal Sports Director.

That’s not what he said to Sporza. He’s going to replace Aldag. Which makes sense on why it took so long for him to find a new job, since he didn’t want to just be a sports director

Sven Vanthourenhout bevestigt: "Ik word sportief manager bij Red Bull-Bora-Hansgrohe" | sporza

Sven Vanthourenhout zal vanaf 1 augustus de sportieve leiding in handen nemen bij Red Bull-Bora-Hansgrohe. Op die stoel zat tot nu toe nog de Duitser Rolf Aldag, maar nu diens contract is opgezegd, wil Vanthourenhout zelf ook toegeven dat hij naar de ploeg van onder meer Florian Lipowitz, Primoz...

sporza.be

 

[theyoungest]

That’s not what he said to Sporza. He’s going to replace Aldag. Which makes sense on why it took so long for him to find a new job, since he didn’t want to just be a sports director

Sven Vanthourenhout bevestigt: "Ik word sportief manager bij Red Bull-Bora-Hansgrohe" | sporza

Sven Vanthourenhout zal vanaf 1 augustus de sportieve leiding in handen nemen bij Red Bull-Bora-Hansgrohe. Op die stoel zat tot nu toe nog de Duitser Rolf Aldag, maar nu diens contract is opgezegd, wil Vanthourenhout zelf ook toegeven dat hij naar de ploeg van onder meer Florian Lipowitz, Primoz...

sporza.be

I don't exactly know what would make Vanthourenhout a good fit for this role. He's been a cyclocross rider, and national coach for both cyclocross and road. Neither of them involve a lot of performance management. As some have said, being a national coach is more or less like being a glorified cheerleader.

 

[Berniece]

I don't exactly know what would make Vanthourenhout a good fit for this role. He's been a cyclocross rider, and national coach for both cyclocross and road. Neither of them involve a lot of performance management. As some have said, being a national coach is more or less like being a glorified cheerleader.

He wasn't just the coach where he selects some riders and sits in the car. He ran the whole department. I imagine Denk being able to properly interview a person and see if he's fit for the role.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Such abrupt dismissal of Aldag is rather interesting. Things like giving too much freedom to riders likely contributed partially to it, on when it came to the Tour GC racing. Here i must say that i support the decisions made in regards to Rogla and his attempts deeper into the race. As for Sven Vanthourenhout, to me it's rather clear that this move is deeply related to potential Remco arrival to the team and hence the last piece of the puzzle is if the move actually happens, will it be agreed by all three parties, or not. We'll see.

 

[FroomeWagon]

I wish Netflix could do a season long series on RB-Bora next year (as they did on Movistar several years back). It appears next year could end up as a real freak show.

 

[theyoungest]

He wasn't just the coach where he selects some riders and sits in the car. He ran the whole department. I imagine Denk being able to properly interview a person and see if he's fit for the role.

What I noticed, at least in cyclocross, is that Belgian riders in the championships pretty much always perform below what you might expect from the biggest cyclocross nation by far. That's his responsiblity, isn't it? Of course on the road it's different, but I think there the role of the national coach is much smaller than in cross. I mean, nobody thinks Mathieu van der Poel became world champion thanks to Koos Moerenhout...

What I do like about the Belgian approach is that 10-15 years ago they had no climbers to speak of, and no time trialists. There's been a concerted effort to select for climbing potential and TT potential in the youth categories, and clearly it's paid off. If Vanthourenhout is the man behind that project, hats off to him.

 

[Berniece]

What I noticed, at least in cyclocross, is that Belgian riders in the championships pretty much always perform below what you might expect from the biggest cyclocross nation by far. That's his responsiblity, isn't it? Of course on the road it's different, but I think there the role of the national coach is much smaller than in cross. I mean, nobody thinks Mathieu van der Poel became world champion thanks to Koos Moerenhout...

What I do like about the Belgian approach is that 10-15 years ago they had no climbers to speak of, and no time trialists. There's been a concerted effort to select for climbing potential and TT potential in the youth categories, and clearly it's paid off. If Vanthourenhout is the man behind that project, hats off to him.

He is not that person