Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Red Rick]

As said before i truly think Remco crack during vuelta 23 was mental not physical.

Really bad moment on really bad day at worst time possible and at some point he does give up. Almeida was also complete *** and he didn't give up. So it doesn't really start as a mental issue.

If I'm Evenepoel I'm not happy about today. I don't think he looked this vulnerable uphill at any point last year, and Lipowitz, Jorgenson and even Roglic all look to be improving relative to him.

 

[Unchained]

As said before i truly think Remco crack during vuelta 23 was mental not physical.

In the 2025 TDF Remco made some early physical and mental mistakes, but because of sound mind and body he put his train back on the track with a great TT. Remco and the rest have seen two distinct things, Pogacar can cover anything they are capable of, Remco and the rest can't begin to match Pogacar ..
Remco is riding smart ..Vingegaard and Jorgenson, Lipowitz all look much more blown than Remco..and in stealth way Roglic is not burning calories in futility like the others..

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Getting dropped by the Pogacar attack isn't the problem, outside of Vingegaard no one could even closely stay on his wheel.
It definitely is disappointing that he couldn't even convincingly put in an attack on his terrain, the plateu before the second to last climb when Visma put in all these attacks was actually perfect for him. And when he finally did throw in a dig at the end Lipowitz closed him down easily which is also slightly underwhelming.
Maybe it pays off in the high mountains tho, so we'll see.

 

[peterfin]

Really bad moment on really bad day at worst time possible and at some point he does give up. Almeida was also complete *** and he didn't give up. So it doesn't really start as a mental issue.

If I'm Evenepoel I'm not happy about today. I don't think he looked this vulnerable uphill at any point last year, and Lipowitz, Jorgenson and even Roglic all look to be improving relative to him.

In his defense I should mention that he did limit the loss to a few seconds and excluding 26 seconds of boni's and 39 seconds during the echelon stage, his loss to Pogacar in the uphill sprints is just 11 seconds. Apart from Vingegaard and Pogacar, he performed better than the rest. It's clear that he lacks the power to accelerate in the final but his pacing on longer climbs might still be better than the other 3rd place contenders.

 

[P4rthen0n]

In his defense I should mention that he did limit the loss to a few seconds and excluding 26 seconds of boni's and 39 seconds during the echelon stage, his loss to Pogacar in the uphill sprints is just 11 seconds. Apart from Vingegaard and Pogacar, he performed better than the rest. It's clear that he lacks the power to accelerate in the final but his pacing on longer climbs might still be better than the other 3rd place contenders.

Yes, it was only 11s in the climbs, but Remco did not pass the eye test, as in he does not look to be on Tour 2024 form and the high mountains aren't here yet.

 

[Red Rick]

In his defense I should mention that he did limit the loss to a few seconds and excluding 26 seconds of boni's and 39 seconds during the echelon stage, his loss to Pogacar in the uphill sprints is just 11 seconds. Apart from Vingegaard and Pogacar, he performed better than the rest. It's clear that he lacks the power to accelerate in the final but his pacing on longer climbs might still be better than the other 3rd place contenders.

I'm not that sure because he didn't look so hot when Pogacar countered over the top of Lipowitz. And I know he paced on the climb, but he wasn't going that fast considering Pogacar/Vingegaard took time while literally sitting on Lenny Martinez. And then 2 minutes of pacing isn't enough to make losing 3s into the uphill sprint look good.

It could simply be on of the worse days of his Tour, but to me he just looked sharper last year.

 

[peterfin]

I'm not that sure because he didn't look so hot when Pogacar countered over the top of Lipowitz. And I know he paced on the climb, but he wasn't going that fast considering Pogacar/Vingegaard took time while literally sitting on Lenny Martinez. And then 2 minutes of pacing isn't enough to make losing 3s into the uphill sprint look good.

It could simply be on of the worse days of his Tour, but to me he just looked sharper last year.

I generally agree. I have the same feeling. I just want to give him the benefit of the doubt and wait until the high mountains.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I'm not that sure because he didn't look so hot when Pogacar countered over the top of Lipowitz. And I know he paced on the climb, but he wasn't going that fast considering Pogacar/Vingegaard took time while literally sitting on Lenny Martinez. And then 2 minutes of pacing isn't enough to make losing 3s into the uphill sprint look good.

It could simply be on of the worse days of his Tour, but to me he just looked sharper last year.

He nearly closed the gap when they sat on Martinez. He was never dangling at the back. He didn't seem dead to me, just missing an any sort of acceleration.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I'm not that sure because he didn't look so hot when Pogacar countered over the top of Lipowitz. And I know he paced on the climb, but he wasn't going that fast considering Pogacar/Vingegaard took time while literally sitting on Lenny Martinez. And then 2 minutes of pacing isn't enough to make losing 3s into the uphill sprint look good.

It could simply be on of the worse days of his Tour, but to me he just looked sharper last year.

If it was a bad day would he have made his little attack? Also what was up with Pogi and Vingo grabbing Lennie's wheel when he came back by them when they slowed up? I think they both wanted to keep a few seconds on the rest and they were both spent enough that they didn't want to have to negotiate who should pull (because then they would have been caught for sure. "Look here comes Martinez let's just sit on him and hope he keeps us just clear of the rest, eww where did all this blood come from?). I give them gentleman marks for staying behind him across the line, that was nice of them.

 

[AmRacer]

If it was a bad day would he have made his little attack? Also what was up with Pogi and Vingo grabbing Lennie's wheel when he came back by them when they slowed up? I think they both wanted to keep a few seconds on the rest and they were both spent enough that they didn't want to have to negotiate who should pull (because then they would have been caught for sure. "Look here comes Martinez let's just sit on him and hope he keeps us just clear of the rest, eww where did all this blood come from?). I give them gentleman marks for staying behind him across the line, that was nice of them.

Since Pogi and Jonas couldn't drop each other, they didn't bother to work anymore. Had they went full gas from the bottom of the climb, they'd put minutes into everyone else.

 

[Berniece]

Evenepoel should start focussing on Jorgensen if he wants to win the TDF. He isn't going to be able to follow Pogacar and Vingegaard, so don't blow up your engine, and ignore them. Instead focus on Jorgensen, since he will be played out by Visma multiple times these next two weeks to attack early. All with the idea to make the race hard, isolate Pogacar, and make Pogacar close that gap. If Jorgensen and Evenepoel actually get away, they can work together to put pressure on Pogacar which is fine for Visma anyway. Until they get too far, than Jorgensen stops cooperating.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Evenepoel should start focussing on Jorgensen if he wants to win the TDF. He isn't going to be able to follow Pogacar and Vingegaard, so don't blow up your engine, and ignore them. Instead focus on Jorgensen, since he will be played out by Visma multiple times these next two weeks to attack early. All with the idea to make the race hard, isolate Pogacar, and make Pogacar close that gap. If Jorgensen and Evenepoel actually get away, they can work together to put pressure on Pogacar which is fine for Visma anyway. Until they get too far, than Jorgensen stops cooperating.

Jorgenson won't cooperate with Evenepoel as long as he's close to Vingo in the GC.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Jorgenson won't cooperate with Evenepoel as long as he's close to Vingo in the GC.

If Visma is serious about giving it all to try to win the Tour at all cost, Jorgenson definitively should work with Remco in such a scenario.

 

[Red Rick]

Since Pogi and Jonas couldn't drop each other, they didn't bother to work anymore. Had they went full gas from the bottom of the climb, they'd put minutes into everyone else.

Minutes?

It's an 8 minute 25kph climb

 

[Salvarani]

His best hope is if Pog and Vinge cant drop each other.

 

[Netserk]

Jorgenson won't cooperate with Evenepoel as long as he's close to Vingo in the GC.

I think he will. It's not like they will gain 3 minutes.

 

[KoopaCycling]

I rly think it's too soon to change gears, and that remco and his team need to wait till after Stage 13 to make up a balance, and decide how to ride the remainder of the tour from that point on.

At the end of the day we have not yet seen Remco's performance in the big mountains. The riders have not had to perform a long extended climbing effort.

We can tell that pogacar is in fine form. Jonas form is perhaps slightly better than expected and we know both of them will be fine in the big mountains. Meanwhile Remco punch seems non-existant, And we haven't seen a climbing performance from him this year. So the doubt is understandable. I'm not feeling to confident either.

But knowing he trained mostly for the big mountains, and with them not having made an appearance yet, i think it's still 2 early to change gear. At the end of the day, he is currently sitting a minute behind Pogacar heading into the mountains.
And he has about 40 sec on his main podium rivals.

I truly think Remco needs to wait till after Hautacam and till after the mountain TT to make up a balance.
And even then it might be 2 early. Stage 18 and 19 seem to be the days that will matter the most.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Jorgenson won't cooperate with Evenepoel as long as he's close to Vingo in the GC.

I agree with the others. Visma's first objective has to be to take out Pogacar. They didn't come to be 2nd, they play for 1st. Even if Evenepoel were to get into yellow, they will prefer that situation to Pogacar being in yellow. First of all because they will feel more confident they can deal with Evenepoel when it comes down to it as opposed to Pogacar, and secondly, because i also think if they had to chose, they'd more likely not want UAE/Pogacar to win.

That said, let's first see how the mountain stages go. If either Evenepoel or Jorgenson completely blow up, there is not much point in such hypotheses.

 

[Berniece]

Jorgenson won't cooperate with Evenepoel as long as he's close to Vingo in the GC.

Up to a point, they won’t give them 10 minutes, but definitely 2-3min. It’s not that Vingegaard cares if he is 2nd or 3rd, only first position counts. Visma should poker.

But none of this matters because Evenepoel won’t follow Jorgensen anyway. Because SOQ thinks he should just follow Pogacar/Vingegaard and ride his own tempo.

 

[Rou]

Remco needs to anticipate. Clearly Pogacar gives him freedom. The biggest threat for Remco is Lipowitz. Jorgenson will be blown out of the water when the real mountains arrive.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

@Logic-is-your-friend @Berniece @Netserk
Guys, maybe you are right. Beating Pog is Visma's priority. They may think they will deal with Remco later (by Vingo + Jorge combo)

 

[Berniece]

@Logic-is-your-friend @Berniece @Netserk
Guys, maybe you are right. Beating Pog is Visma's priority. They may think they will deal with Remco later (by Vingo + Jorge combo)

They also have the team for it. Even if Evenepoel takes another 2-3min, if they go hard with the team during stage 18-19 they can easily take that time back

 

[Cycling111]

If Visma is serious about giving it all to try to win the Tour at all cost, Jorgenson definitively should work with Remco in such a scenario.

I see a more beneficial alliance with Pogacar. Jorgenson is more of a rival to Remco than to Pogacar in the overall standings.

Pogacar will easily outdo Jorgenson, just like yesterday.

Remco's interest that Pogacar eliminate Jogenson. Remco can´t collaborate with Jorgenson so that he ends up being his rival for the podium.

 

[Red Rick]

@Logic-is-your-friend @Berniece @Netserk
Guys, maybe you are right. Beating Pog is Visma's priority. They may think they will deal with Remco later (by Vingo + Jorge combo)

You mean pivot and try to get 3rd spot with Jorgenson? I think there's an outside chance of that happening, but not until like Ventoux or the Alps. And it really requires underutilizing Jorgenson.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Maybe Rogla and Remco can cooperate to gain some time and insight in regards to the possible future, Matteo can tag along.