Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[CyclistAbi]

@red_flanders

By whom? You are defending SOQ and claim they went all in with Remco, on where it comes to GT racing? IMHO you don't have to be an expert to see that is not the case.

 

[AmRacer]

@red_flanders

By whom? You are defending SOQ and claim they went all in with Remco, on where it comes to GT racing? IMHO you don't have to be an expert to see that is not the case.

But they did, this is the best they could do. See other posts by other users for further explanation.

 

[CyclistAbi]

But they did, this is the best they could do. See other posts by other users for further explanation.

OK i give up, if some of you claim you are experts and for you this is an all in support. Then it would be impossible for our views to align in any meaningful way. And lets leave it at that.

 

[AmRacer]

OK i give up, if some of you claim you are experts and for you this is an all in support. Then it would be impossible for our views to align in any meaningful way. And lets leave it at that.

If you read the posts, there's a lot of criticism of the team, management, DS, med staff...and Remco's own responsibility.

 

[Extinction]

I don't buy it, that is i never really seen the effort backing the claims and IMHO they have a rather hefty budget.

If i would have to guess, does predominately Belgium sponsored team having a superstar from Belgium really care more about GT racing, compared to the classics?

Ask Remco. What you say goes totally against what Remco and the team have been saying for years. How many times has Don Patrick said he doesn't have the money?

 

[CyclistAbi]

If you read the posts, there's a lot of criticism of the team, management, DS, med staff...and Remco's own responsibility.

I read it from time to time and majority of it is things like 1 kilo, bad cornering ... Before the Tour started i said there is a high risk of malnutrition, fat shaming, and the team they sent is BS. Even now, on where Remco collapsed for no apparent reason and was left dangling, by his own team, even now the BS continues. I mean it's time to have a honest talk as such distortions don't serve any purpose any more.

Ask Remco. What you say goes totally against what Remco and the team have been saying for years. How many times has Don Patrick said he doesn't have the money?

Yeah, they are tens of millions poor and great at classics & Co. Money hence surely is the reason on why they can't transform to a proper GT GC team. But anyway, enough from my side for now. You all convinced me that Remco needs a proper shot, at RBH. So lets see on how that one goes.

 

[houtdffan]

This seems harsh. How can he know his true level until he races? He was strong in the 2024 Tour I think he could expect be at least that good in 2025 assuming similar preparation and being one year older. More questions than answers. I wonder if he's carrying a virus? This paragraph suggests so ...

it's some of the decisions he had made through his career. Not just this race. From the Amstel sprint, to his other tactics, etc

 

[red_flanders]

I don't agree that the career of Remco was mismanaged, that is he signed for a strong classics and Co. orientated team and they developed him in one of the finest in their own domain.

This is absolute nonsense with no basis in reality. His goals and plan with the team have been GT's from before he signed. He's also naturally gifted and happens to be good at hilly classics. You have no idea what you're talking about.

In terms of manager the pay check is rather hefty too, so no real complaints. At some point the idea came lets do stage racing too and be good at it.

This is absolute nonsense with no basis in reality. His goals and plan for the team have been GT's from before he signed. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Here realistically they haven't made the transition successfully, not Remco and not the team, basically Remco is their GT GC team, the rest is not. Landa was a nice addition but somehow it ends there.

They haven't. But they certainly attempted it, and no, the rest of the team is not a classics team. You might want to check their classics teams' riders and palmares before Remco and after Remco.

But you're trolling.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@red_flanders

So what are you claiming now, that Remco is not one of the finest, on where it comes to classics and Co. racing?

P.S. Lets get this one sorted out first as this seams to be the disagreement we are having. You acknowledged they haven't successfully transition to being a GT GC team, so we can say we agree on that.

 

[fenns]

Seems to me his team got him ready for the Belgian classics at the expense of the rest of the season.

 

[kingjr]

This is absolute nonsense with no basis in reality. His goals and plan with the team have been GT's from before he signed. He's also naturally gifted and happens to be good at hilly classics. You have no idea what you're talking about.

This is absolute nonsense with no basis in reality. His goals and plan for the team have been GT's from before he signed. You have no idea what you're talking about.

They haven't. But they certainly attempted it, and no, the rest of the team is not a classics team. You might want to check their classics teams' riders and palmares before Remco and after Remco.

But you're trolling.

Nah, it's about Roglic would be my guess. If Remco joined RBH, he would threaten his status there.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Nah, it's about Roglic would be my guess. If Remco joined RBH, he would threaten his status there.

Yeah i am dissing SOQ as a GT GC team to prevent Remco joining RBH.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The thing is if Remco was on a par with Pogacar and vingegaard at the tour then the team dynamic would probably change, but he isn’t.
His team have probably been poor in managing him in some ways , but how much more would he have won on another team ? I don’t think a lot, tour, no, a giro? Maybe
He could have a team of hand picked climbing donestiques what would it change? He’s still getting dropped. He’d probably have trouble keeping up with his own teammates some of the time.

He isn't... Last year he came close enough in order to try again, especially since last year his preparation was also far from ideal.

His career could have looked a lot different without that crash in Lombardia, for which I hold the team responsible. Sending an inexperienced 20 year old with known issues regarding bike handling with a severe go-getter attitude to a race where multiple riders had crashed at the exact same spot of a known dangerous descent. The Giro 2021 fiasco is a direct result of that crash. The failed 2021 Olympics as well. Only mid 2022 was he back at the level he already had 2 years prior. Few months later he won the Vuelta. Then covid along with other team fuckups resulted in a lost 2023. 2024 was looking good until his crash in Itzulia, but was still able to podium Tour and double the Olympics. Another gruesome crash paired with team screw ups and we are where we are today. The start of his career he trended parallel to Pogacar, or even better.

Move Pogacar to Lotto then push him off a cliff and let's see how well he does then.

 

[Extinction]

Yeah, they are tens of millions poor and great at classics & Co. Money hence surely is the reason on why they can't transform to a proper GT GC team. But anyway, enough from my side for now. You all convinced me that Remco needs a proper shot, at RBH. So lets see on how that one goes.

This is nonsense. UAE has an annual budget reported to be around 50 million euros. I'd be surprised if Soudal's was 30 million. Soudal has had terrible classics campaigns over the last years.

 

[CyclistAbi]

This is nonsense. UAE has an annual budget reported to be around 50 million euros. I'd be surprised if Soudal's was 30 million. Soudal has had terrible classics campaigns over the last years.

Yeah, poor team, only 30 millions annually. I wrote classics and Co. and at that there have been rather successful, IMHO, one of the most successful teams out there. Stage racing, not so much in term of GC.

 

[Sciatic]

I meant more in the direction in Slovenia you can be a superstar if you are good in ski jumping, doubt that is a thing in Belgium. That doesn't mean, historically speaking, we didn't have skiers, such as Tina Maze. So the point being was SOQ and Lefevere ever really into GT racing as much as winning (Belgian) classics? Just like in Slovenia we do tend to keep the focus on omnipresence of superstars in ski jumping.

Hey, Tina was not “just” a skier, but an all-time great with Olympic gold and World Cup Overall champion. In an even rarer achievement that surpasses even Pogacar, she was awarded the title (by a vote of athletes of all sports) of hottest female athlete at 2002 Olympics

 

[bah]

Remco has proven not only not being up to the task of being a professional bike rider - cf Pogacar, Van der Poel, Van Aert etc - but also not being able to manage the massive pressure of modern pro cycling I.e. to learn how to survive and prosper in the peloton and to learn to deal with the suck in bad days and deal blows on the good days. I see a cry baby wanting to have everyone serve him his “meal” and that’s not happening. That’s all I had. Go away now.

Is this a joke? His palmares is already more impressive than the vast majority of riders.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Is this a joke? His palmares is already more impressive than the vast majority of riders.

Here likely the problem of disparity kicks in, if Remco would be judged based on results in areas he is most successful at, then he would be praised, somehow he isn't, as instead he is mostly judged by result in areas on where he isn't as successful as some want him to be.

 

[AmRacer]

Here likely the problem of disparity kicks in, if Remco would be judged based on results in areas he is most successful at, then he would be praised, somehow he isn't, as instead he is mostly judged by result in areas on where he isn't as successful as some want him to be.

Someone like Remco

 

[Oldman]

He isn't... Last year he came close enough in order to try again, especially since last year his preparation was also far from ideal.

His career could have looked a lot different without that crash in Lombardia, for which I hold the team responsible. Sending an inexperienced 20 year old with known issues regarding bike handling with a severe go-getter attitude to a race where multiple riders had crashed at the exact same spot of a known dangerous descent. The Giro 2021 fiasco is a direct result of that crash. The failed 2021 Olympics as well. Only mid 2022 was he back at the level he already had 2 years prior. Few months later he won the Vuelta. Then covid along with other team fuckups resulted in a lost 2023. 2024 was looking good until his crash in Itzulia, but was still able to podium Tour and double the Olympics. Another gruesome crash paired with team screw ups and we are where we are today. The start of his career he trended parallel to Pogacar, or even better.

Move Pogacar to Lotto then push him off a cliff and let's see how well he does then.

Except for the last part we agree that a valuable 20 year old rider should be schooled enough to have reconned that turn. If they did not I'd hold the team and Remco's management both responsible. They knew what they were working with and it'd be risky not to do that and have a teammate ahead. It's been a tough road.

The last part ignores most phenoms worked their way systematically from junior years to earning a spot at the top for the events they could be competitive. Teams don't usually invest in the totally unproven asset.

 

[Charlyghoul]

He isn't... Last year he came close enough in order to try again, especially since last year his preparation was also far from ideal.

His career could have looked a lot different without that crash in Lombardia, for which I hold the team responsible. Sending an inexperienced 20 year old with known issues regarding bike handling with a severe go-getter attitude to a race where multiple riders had crashed at the exact same spot of a known dangerous descent. The Giro 2021 fiasco is a direct result of that crash. The failed 2021 Olympics as well. Only mid 2022 was he back at the level he already had 2 years prior. Few months later he won the Vuelta. Then covid along with other team fuckups resulted in a lost 2023. 2024 was looking good until his crash in Itzulia, but was still able to podium Tour and double the Olympics. Another gruesome crash paired with team screw ups and we are where we are today. The start of his career he trended parallel to Pogacar, or even better.

Move Pogacar to Lotto then push him off a cliff and let's see how well he does then.

Pogacar isn’t at lotto because he’s miles ahead of Remco as a grand tour rider.
How can you blame a team for a crash that’s the riders own fault ? If it’s a known dangerous descent, maybe he should have took it a bit easier ? 20 years olds are not allowed to ride Lombardy now? Wasn’t Pogacar winning the tour at 20…maybe he shouldn’t have been allowed? He might have crashed…
This is just an excuse for Remco. He could still have finished on the podium this year at the tour but decided to quit. The crashes and team is a bs excuse, he could have well finished third this year.l if he wanted to.
Maybe he should have stuck to running, I hear he was a good runner and football player, but not the most technically gifted, you can kind of see in his cycling career. He should have been a marathon runner, nice and flat, even he can’t fall off.

Seriously though he has so much ability but what annoys me is it’s always ‘his team is bad, what about the crashes’ and all of this, as if those are the reasons that he isn’t a Tour de France winner. He can dominate Burgos and junior races but they tend to not to have too many ventouxs and tourmalets in those.

 

[2WpK]

Remco's biggest problem is racing in the era of Pog/Vingo.

He needs a culture committed to winning Grand Tours. The Red Bull Bora opportunity may be closed for him due to the emergence of Lipowitz. Ineos may be the next best choice.

 

[Charlyghoul]

I think he just needs to forget about the tour for at least a year, so he wants to win all the grand tours, ok he has no chance of the tour at the moment, if I were him I would just focus on worlds/lombardy this season, not even bother with vuelta. He already has that.
Next season, go for classics then ride the giro with a chance of winning but not putting any pressure, depending who’s there, then skip the tour and do the same at vuelta. Depending how the gc legs are then the season after go back to tour, try to at least equal 2024 podium, just do his best, then really build the next season around tour if he really wants to try to win.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Some crazy takes in this thread:

• Remco is supremely talented; IMO, only Pogacar has his all around talent in the modern day peloton
• His palmares are already exceptional
• Those palmares reflect that he is an all-rounder, evidenced by a GT win, a Monument win (twice), and double gold in the Olympics
• However, unlike Pogacar, he is only the best in one discipline (hilly ITTs)
• He has dealt with serious setbacks, including crashes, illness, and possibly mismanagement
• This has undoubtedly reduced his palmares and caused them to lag behind his potential
• He is far from alone in this: Roglic, for example, in particular has faced as many or more setbacks (no privileged cycling background, late start, poor 2019 GT choice, crash in 2020 Dauphine before Tour, many more crashes, bad knee, shoulder surgery, illnesses, more crashes); Vingegaard has faced his setbacks; even Pogacar arguably (based on what we’ve seen since, or even say likely) lost the 2023 Tour due to a crash.
• Remco will return and win many more races, though winning the Tour is unlikely (not impossible)
• Evidence indicates he is best suited for WCITT, WCRR, Olympics ITT, Olympics RR, select monuments, and GTs with heavy flat ITT and no Pogacar or Vingegaard.
• The Tour should put in a 100km flat ITT next year.

 

[houtdffan]

Some crazy takes in this thread:

• Remco is supremely talented; IMO, only Pogacar has his all around talent in the modern day peloton
• His palmares are already exceptional
• Those palmares reflect that he is an all-rounder, evidenced by a GT win, a Monument win (twice), and double gold in the Olympics
• However, unlike Pogacar, he is only the best in one discipline (hilly ITTs)
• He has dealt with serious setbacks, including crashes, illness, and possibly mismanagement
• This has undoubtedly reduced his palmares and caused them to lag behind his potential
• He is far from alone in this: Roglic, for example, in particular has faced as many or more setbacks (no privileged cycling background, late start, poor 2019 GT choice, crash in 2020 Dauphine before Tour, many more crashes, bad knee, shoulder surgery, illnesses, more crashes); Vingegaard has faced his setbacks; even Pogacar arguably (based on what we’ve seen since, or even say likely) lost the 2023 Tour due to a crash.
• Remco will return and win many more races, though the Tour is likely (not impossible)
• Evidence indicates he is best suited for WCITT, WCRR, Olympics ITT, Olympics RR, select monuments, and GTs with heavy flat ITT and no Pogacar or Vingegaard.
• The Tour should put in a 100km flat ITT next year.

not a 100km flat ITT, ~100km total of flat ITT, though if the giro would put in 80-90, I'd still recommend he do a giro/vuelta double next year