Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Krzysztof_O]

That's indeed the plan, and everything is currently going according to it.

I think that if everything goes to plan he will improve on TDF'24 form, and that will show he is still the 3rd best climber in the peloton. Is that based on results from this year? No. That's assuming he's able to be as good or even better than in TDF'24.

I think the mythical peak Remco could be the 3rd best climber of the Tour without Seixas around. I guess newbie's mistakes could cost Seixas a podium spot if he follows Pogacar for too long or does other stupid things.

 

[Berniece]

I think the mythical peak Remco could be the 3rd best climber of the Tour without Seixas around. I guess newbie's mistakes could cost Seixas a podium spot if he follows Pogacar for too long.

I first want to see how Seixas performs for 3 weeks straight. I can remember Fuglsang doing well in the first week of a GT or in 1-week stage races, and then not even finishing top 10 in a GT. Obviously different times, and a completely different rider. But Seixas is 19, still want to see if he's able to drop Evenepoel on Alpe d'Huez after 18 days of racing.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I first want to see how Seixas performs for 3 weeks straight. I can remember Fuglsang doing well in the first week of a GT or in 1-week stage races, and then not even finishing top 10 in a GT. Obviously different times, and a completely different rider. But Seixas is 19, still want to see if he's able to drop Evenepoel on Alpe d'Huez after 18 days of racing.

There were riders like that but in most cases 3-week endurance isn't a big problem for strong climbers (at least after they gain some experience). Obviously he's very young and his enthusiasm and inexperience (energy management) could cost him dearly at some point during this Tour. However I'm not foreseeing his general endurance problems in the future (it doesn't happen that often).

 

[Taxus4a]

Watching Pogacar in general at Strade; he probably would welcome some help at that distance from the finish. Like he rides against Mathieu and Remco; if the contribution isn't enough to increase the gap he simply drops the follower. That's what he did. It's more dramatically obvious what Pogacar does when it's on good pavement because the gap grows instantly and there is no chasing back unless he adjusts tempo. PR was an example of a seriously fatigued version of Tadej and Wout knew he should stay protected until the velodrome. Because Wout is smart.

Well, Pogacar is not able to drop MVDP in the flat..and of course if he doenst colaborate he is going to attack him at the climbs.

But how do you think MVDP has more options to hold a Pogacar attack, after top go at his wheel of after collaborate. Pogacar is going to attack him whatever he did, so why collaborate. Maybe drop him as well, but with less difference and more options for MVDP to chase at the last part..

And much better if he join with Remco, so it is stupid to pull to put distance on Remco. He woudl have been his best allie to Win, But MVDP prefers to be good with Pogacar than to be ok with Remco as his chances were quite samll anyway.

That s all. They say, that is not to be a champion. it is not sportive...just excuses....or Does it is sportive Pogacar puntured the first of favourites at Roubaix and stat pulling at the front with all? both things are allowed by rules and the same sportive IMO.

 

[Berniece]

There were riders like that but in most cases 3-week endurance isn't a big problem for strong climbers (at least after they gain some experience). Obviously he's very young and his enthusiasm and inexperience (energy management) could cost him dearly at some point during this Tour. However I'm not foreseeing his general endurance problems in the future (it doesn't happen that often).

I actually feel Evenepoel himself has endurance problems in 3 weeks. Pogacar seems to be able to take much more time at the end of the GT, then in the beginning. Which makes sense, but that also tells me again that I first want to see how Seixas handles that.

 

[Taxus4a]

So he went all out on the descend, with the sole purpose of gaining more time and adding emotional blow (as confirmed by him later) but couldn't be bothered in the last km?

Everybody know than Pogacar can drop MVDP at Kwaremont and he has showed last editions. Your dont need to know a lot about cycling, MVDP know it, that is only way to hold was to stay at his wheel.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I actually feel Evenepoel himself has endurance problems in 3 weeks. Pogacar seems to be able to take much more time at the end of the GT, then in the beginning. Which makes sense, but that also tells me again that I first want to see how Seixas handles that.

Last year Pog himself was weaker in the Alps. Also Vingo wasnt at his best then. Pyrenees already decided the race. It changes between GTs.

This year, despite the organizers hard tries to backload the race (or maybe because of it), stage 6 could be the most telling and most important of all. It will be carnage.

 

[Taxus4a]

I would like to have Remco at Fleche, but as Pogacar is not there and Remco has races Amstel, and next lIje is the race of the races in decades, the race of the 21 century, he shopuld focus all his enery to try to beat Pogacar at Lieje.
He has nothing to lose as Pogacar is favourite, but everybody is going to compare and it is better to be at the start the same ready as Pogacar.
Both has won did race from far. and it suits both very well. this is not like Lombardie with suits more to Pogacar. So I hope Remco find the strategy to beat Pogacar. For me the best it is try to finish Redoute close to Pogacar, Join Seixas is he is over there and collaborate to ctach Pogacar, But anyway I have no so clear than if Remco is ok Pogacar can drop him at redoute.
Pogacar will try to make a hard race (5000 m elevation gain is a lot better for him) and tomattack from the bottom of Redoute, the hard part. It would be difficult for Remco (and of course for Seixas at 19) to hold that, but both of them can be close IMO (and that in Seixas is humillating even for Pogacar).
I think Remo can cacth Pogacar alone, becpuse he is better for the flat or false flats, even small or soft climbs...but if he had the help of Seixas, much better. and at the end Remco can play the card of to attack in the flat or the sprint. We watched last year with Van Aert at fleche brabancone, this Amstel with skelmose, or in San Sebastian with Peio Bilbao, all of them faster than him that he can do it.
but if they get the finish the same tired and make the sprint without mistakes, Pogacar is a little bit more favourite. With Seixas there would be more impredictable.

 

[Taxus4a]

attack Remco at Redoute

 

[Taxus4a]

thermonuclear Remco attack at Redoute

 

[Berniece]

I would like to have Remco at Fleche, but as Pogacar is not there and Remco has races Amstel, and next lIje is the race of the races in decades, the race of the 21 century, he shopuld focus all his enery to try to beat Pogacar at Lieje.
He has nothing to lose as Pogacar is favourite, but everybody is going to compare and it is better to be at the start the same ready as Pogacar.
Both has won did race from far. and it suits both very well. this is not like Lombardie with suits more to Pogacar. So I hope Remco find the strategy to beat Pogacar. For me the best it is try to finish Redoute close to Pogacar, Join Seixas is he is over there and collaborate to ctach Pogacar, But anyway I have no so clear than if Remco is ok Pogacar can drop him at redoute.
Pogacar will try to make a hard race (5000 m elevation gain is a lot better for him) and tomattack from the bottom of Redoute, the hard part. It would be difficult for Remco (and of course for Seixas at 19) to hold that, but both of them can be close IMO (and that in Seixas is humillating even for Pogacar).
I think Remo can cacth Pogacar alone, becpuse he is better for the flat or false flats, even small or soft climbs...but if he had the help of Seixas, much better. and at the end Remco can play the card of to attack in the flat or the sprint. We watched last year with Van Aert at fleche brabancone, this Amstel with skelmose, or in San Sebastian with Peio Bilbao, all of them faster than him that he can do it.
but if they get the finish the same tired and make the sprint without mistakes, Pogacar is a little bit more favourite. With Seixas there would be more impredictable.

Thing is, there aren't that many areas where Evenepoel/Seixas might be able to catch Pogacar. There aren't that many flat or slightly uphill sections after La Redoute.

 

[houtdffan]

Why? Assuming he's still the third best climber in the peloton, why would you just go for stages instead of a GC result? If he finishes on the podium this TDF, but the gap with Vingegaard/Pogacar stays big, I rather have him go for Giro/Vuelta wins than KOM in TDF.

Because he wouldnt be just going for stages. He'd be going for green and polka dots.

And as I said, he'd likely have a good GC result as well

 

[Berniece]

Because he wouldnt be just going for stages. He'd be going for green and polka dots.

And as I said, he'd likely have a good GC result as well

Obviously a personal preference, but I rather see him going for the win even if he lands in the podium. That’s also connected to a stage win

 

[AlpRaid]

I don't think Remco is third best climber.

I think Seixas and Del Toro are better (and also more the body shape).

I also think Remco is not the best at recovery.

However, I think Remco may be the one who gets the most benefit from altitude training. He usually comes in at the start of a GT firing on all cylinders, but fades in comparison to the natural climbers like pog, vingo, and I would now argue both Del Toro and Seixas.

And I am a fan. But, to me, he is an underdog. Everything needs to go right in the race -- as in 2024 -- for him to get on the podium. Particularly since there is no first-week ITT. A long flat ITT in the first week would not help him him beat pog or vingo, but would help him get some buffer with other podium challengers.

I hope that better prep than 2024 will benefit him this year, but that may be a pipe dream.

 

[KoopaCycling]

At the very least Remco should ride this years Tour for GC.

 

[Ulle97]

At the very least Remco should ride this years Tour for GC.

Yes..... I would wager that it is almost a crossroads moment for him. Out of the 6 GTs he has raced, he can say that he achieved his potential in only 2 of them.

I feel if he checks out on another big stage like Superbagneres last year or Tourmalet in 23 Vuelta, he may need to reconsider his GC ambitions and look at races that suit him better in the future.

 

[houtdffan]

Obviously a personal preference, but I rather see him going for the win even if he lands in the podium. That’s also connected to a stage win

He could still podium racing the way I suggested he should. He would be ultra dangerous on riads in medium mountain stages, and as the 2023 vuelta showed, a real terror in the high mountains. He escapes, he likely takes 6-10 minutes back

 

[peterfin]

I am pretty sure they won't conclude anything this year regarding his GC ambitions. That's not part of the investment plan. I think they aim for maximal performance readiness next year, not this year. RBH needs to do their work. Remco needs to adapt and improve... and the other two age a year extra while he is at a prime age of 27 which may help at least a bit. Even if the stars allign for him, Seixas may be the next Pogi waiting but I am not yet a full believer, especially not if he doesn't make the move to UAE. I believe Remco still has a small chance to win the TdF but not this year.

 

[Berniece]

He could still podium racing the way I suggested he should. He would be ultra dangerous on riads in medium mountain stages, and as the 2023 vuelta showed, a real terror in the high mountains. He escapes, he likely takes 6-10 minutes back

I don’t think that’s realistic, but let’s first see what TDF brings this year. Approach won’t be changed for now

 

[Taxus4a]

Thing is, there aren't that many areas where Evenepoel/Seixas might be able to catch Pogacar. There aren't that many flat or slightly uphill sections after La Redoute.

Mosf part after la Redoute suites more Remco than Pogacar. Everything except 1 km at la Roche aux faucons...that considering Pogacar is better than Remco is short climbs without cobbles.

It is true that they have been riding for several years already, but we havent got the oportunity to whach that so far in all those years to be so sure Pogacar is better.

Pogacar couldnt drop Pidcock at Cipressa or Poggio, you tall as if he was super at that kind of climbs compared to Remco. Remco catched Pogacar at Amstel with several hard short climbs with just a little help by Skelkmose. Remco has won several times San Sebastian who has harder climbs than Lieja.
As well I remember the European that Remco hold Pogacar attack more than 1 km, after 2 km of hard climb, similar to la Redoute.
In longer climbs Pogacar is better. Remco destroy almost everybody at 7 km climbs, except Pogacar (I mean classics, other way is Vingegaard in the equation), but at 2 km climbs??? I am not sure Pogacar is better, at least to drop him.
Pogacar is crazy strong at 2 km climbs, but Remco as well.
And this time we have Seixas in the equation, so he can play a role bewteen them,
it is possible that Remco does not get well positioning before la Redoute, or he lost ten secopnd there with pogacar and he has some people with him who dont collaborate and then stop , so Pogavcar wons as usual, with 1 minute since la Redoute, or, lots of possible scenarios, but everybody has clear than if Pogacar has won San Remo and almost Roubaix, and Liege suit him much better and he has beated Remco at Worlds, Europeans and Lombardia clearly, this time will be the same, but it is a different kind of race.
Best whises!

 

[Taxus4a]

I don't think Remco is third best climber.

I think Seixas and Del Toro are better (and also more the body shape).

I also think Remco is not the best at recovery.

However, I think Remco may be the one who gets the most benefit from altitude training. He usually comes in at the start of a GT firing on all cylinders, but fades in comparison to the natural climbers like pog, vingo, and I would now argue both Del Toro and Seixas.

And I am a fan. But, to me, he is an underdog. Everything needs to go right in the race -- as in 2024 -- for him to get on the podium. Particularly since there is no first-week ITT. A long flat ITT in the first week would not help him him beat pog or vingo, but would help him get some buffer with other podium challengers.

I hope that better prep than 2024 will benefit him this year, but that may be a pipe dream.

If Remo is at 2024 Tour shape, yes, he is third best climber, and he should be better to that level this year. Dont forget Remco climbed Plateau the Beille better than Pantani record. anywat when he is not at his best hard climbs, with more than 10 % average, he struggles...and meybe people as Seixas, who is still to see at a Grand Tour, but of course climb a lot, and maybe Ayuso can beat him...but I am not so sure Del Toro, he is not a pure climber..he was better at UAE, but Remco wanst at his weight to a climb so hard, close to Angliru. Del Toro showed his good level againts good riders, but not top.

Second one was Luke Plap that day !! Gall, Tiberi,... good climbers and riders, but no top.

 

[KoopaCycling]

I don’t think that’s realistic, but let’s first see what TDF brings this year. Approach won’t be changed for now

Same, the only reason he was allowed to take so much time back by Visma was cause he took time.
Not to mention the other teams are stronger in the Tour as well. And people care more about top 10 than any other race in the world.

I would however advise remco to try and take time on stages now considered not for GC.
See if you can do some damage on those stages after careful analysation on how to ride them with your team without them simply ending as you wasting energy in comparison to your rivals.

 

[Taxus4a]

I think the mythical peak Remco could be the 3rd best climber of the Tour without Seixas around. I guess newbie's mistakes could cost Seixas a podium spot if he follows Pogacar for too long or does other stupid things.

Burt Seixas at Strade even catched Pogacar and he was losing very little after that, With an small help he could have chase Pogacar (exceptPogacar was not giving all...bvut he races very little, he can have a punture or another problem...he should be giving almost his best. What Seixas did that day was really impressing. more IMo than Basque country (althoug his ITT was amazig, too much time prople as Roglic)

UAE wanted Del Toro to win or at least a 1-2. Del Toro had the advantage to have Pogacar ahead and was able to suck Seixas wheel lot of time...and despite that Seixas droped at the end. Seixas was that day really close to Pogacar level, very close. He is not promissing, as his mate Leo Bisiaux (who impressed me at Burgos, I was at the finish line when he won), he is one of the top 5 riders today.

 

[Taxus4a]

Same, the only reason he was allowed to take so much time back by Visma was cause he took time.
Not to mention the other teams are stronger in the Tour as well. And people care more about top 10 than any other race in the world.

I would however advise remco to try and take time on stages now considered not for GC.
See if you can do some damage on those stages after careful analysation on how to ride them with your team without them simply ending as you wasting energy in comparison to your rivals.

he can do dame thos stages, maybe win stafes, tale bonus, some time..not easy but he is able to do it of he play well his cards. The problem is that with quite big mountains tages, and so little flat ITT, he has really difficult to win overall even if he shoe a super level climbing better than before. Trhe podium yes, especially if the team is around him.

But Remco would be a super rider and better considering id he is able to win stages like this and as well he is on the podium, even with more than 2 riders climbing better than him. he has to show his super taknt in those stages suits him more. I think he will try, he did last year, and he didnt very bad, but his level was quite far of his best one.

 

[Oldman]

Well, Pogacar is not able to drop MVDP in the flat..and of course if he doenst colaborate he is going to attack him at the climbs.

But how do you think MVDP has more options to hold a Pogacar attack, after top go at his wheel of after collaborate. Pogacar is going to attack him whatever he did, so why collaborate. Maybe drop him as well, but with less difference and more options for MVDP to chase at the last part..

And much better if he join with Remco, so it is stupid to pull to put distance on Remco. He woudl have been his best allie to Win, But MVDP prefers to be good with Pogacar than to be ok with Remco as his chances were quite samll anyway.

That s all. They say, that is not to be a champion. it is not sportive...just excuses....or Does it is sportive Pogacar puntured the first of favourites at Roubaix and stat pulling at the front with all? both things are allowed by rules and the same sportive IMO.

Not sure much of this translated smoothly....But looking at some recent major events; Pogacar has walked away from everyone as far as 80km out on demanding courses. Paris Roubaix was an example of him going too deep into reserves and Wout succeeded.