Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Think he's quite underwhelming for a guy who implied he'd have crushed the Giro last year.

When did he imply that?

 

[Oldermanish]

Before the Giro he had the same betting quotes then Bernal. The team is also expecting him to get in the top10 otherwise they wouldn't order Almeida back at such a steep climb. That is really insane after such an injury and in his first Grand Tours. But objectively he isn't fulfilling the expectations at the moment.
The team, Evenepoel himself and the fans are putting so much pressure on him. That is really crazy.

It looks like he is unbelievable strong at hilly terrain and at riding at the flat. He probably won't be unbeatable in the future at steeper hills.

I'd give the guy credit for accomplishing this much after the injuries he's suffered. The performance today doesn't need to define him as it was pretty good.
As Jagartrott and others suggest; he should try to finish this Giro without hurting himself and learn more about his 3rd week abilities.

 

[Big Doopie]

A thread which is up to 209 pages for a third year rider suggests there is an element of over-hyping.

sure, but the only reason the over-hype is not (now) worthy is that he had a terrible accident at a point when he may have ended up with the top season of any rider in 2020 at the age of 20... unheard of. In fact, before his accident, he had achieved things not one other rider in the history of cycling had done by the age of 20. not one.

and he seemed to be getting better and better...

the problem is that people continue to evaluate him and compare him on present riding after a terrible accident, a rushed preparation, and not racing for 9 months.

that's just stupid.

his early career now must have a different trajectory. and such is life.

does not mean that the hype was not valid, and may yet turn out to be on point.

for now, though, that assessment simply cannot be made.

now if he never recovers his earlier ability -- and I am talking here about the ability to dominate at ITTs and go on long, long raids over hilly/mid-mountain-type stages, then we may actually be talking about the greatest "what may have been" since Monsere's death or Merckx's Blois accident (yes, Merckx would likely have been even more dominant)... and that would still not make the initial hype wrong, only frustrating that we never got to see what could have been.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Think he's quite underwhelming for a guy who implied he'd have crushed the Giro last year.

Please go to Wielerflits. You're straight up trolling now.

 

[Netserk]

sure, but the only reason the over-hype is not (now) worthy is that he had a terrible accident at a point when he may have ended up with the top season of any rider in 2020 at the age of 20...

Ah, so all the over-hyping came before the crash, nothing since.

 

[Sciatic]

Many American football players took ballet in the 1980s. Don’t know if it’s still a trend, but they even had an episode about it on Mr. Rogers Neighborhood.

Lynn Swan—best receiver in the league and danced in performances of Pittsburg ballet (special guest invite to sell tickets I’m sure).

 

[remcredo]

Ah, so all the over-hyping came before the crash, nothing since.

That's because of his previous results, that were unseen for a 20 years old cyclist.
Imagine they cloned Merckx, he would be hyped from his childhood, just because people believe unseen results can be made in future by this clone, according to what someone did in the past.

 

[Big Doopie]

Ah, so all the over-hyping came before the crash, nothing since.

LOL. no. and i think you understood full well what i wrote, but you are trolling.

those who point that the hype is not valid are pointing to this giro as the proof.

and that is just plain stupid.

 

[jmdirt]

OK young man, now you learn how to fight in a GT. Fighting for 5-10 (with your poor base) will teach you how to fight for the top of the box in years to come.

Get it on kid, justify this thread!

 

[Skalman]

He cant descend, He have no push on small climbs, he cant gravel, he has poor positioning, there is serious doubts about the longer steeper climbs.
Some of this can be attributed to the injury, some to starting so late with bike riding and some to not to lack of form due to said Injury and he is young.
Some of these things he will surely pick up others he may not. So patience is key really, to early to say really but GC´s looks doubtful.

 

[limak_]

It's mainly DQS responsible for all that over-hype and confusion that has been created around Remco and his chances in this Giro. Not media, journalists, fans his teammates or Remco himself.

Why? Because no one ever in their right mind gives a leadership in the GT and puts so much pressure on a 21 year old guy, coming back straight after serious injury, with only 2,5 months of training, no racing for 9 months, being a debutant in a GT, never done a single real mountain race in his life, racing on a bike no longer than 4 years = also seriously lacking bike-handling skills.

I really can't think of any sensible reason for making Remco do this Giro as his first race after the crash, not even talking about giving him the #1 leadership. But there could be only one explanation. DQS really belived that he's able to fight for the win or at least top 3 (because anything worse than that wouldn't be worth all the risk and sacrifice).

So then, why is anyone surprised that there's so much expected from him, that he's being so mych hyped form left and right? After the decision about his start people could think that he really is that Ramco terminator, having every right to do so.

Why not let him come back quietly, do some smaller races, make 100% sure his body is recovered from the injury (we all remember there were some complications in terms of that)? The whole career is ahead of him with possibly another 20+ GT starts. Why they had to rush things that much?

 

[titan31]

I'm hoping the descending is just due to the crash and the long layoff cos fair enough if so. If not, he needs to drastically improve that to be a GT contender unless he gets lucky with the route.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1396134130094645249

View: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1396134130094645249

He was so bad today, he would have finished 2nd in 2003 behind Simoni.

 

[Skalman]

I'm hoping the descending is just due to the crash and the long layoff cos fair enough if so. If not, he needs to drastically improve that to be a GT contender unless he gets lucky with the route.

He was very unsure before the crash too, he started late with bike riding and that is handicap for sure

 

[Red Rick]

He was so bad today, he would have finished 2nd in 2003 behind Simoni.

You know you're grasping when you're comparing climbing times 18 years apart 1 on 1.

It's like saying Froomes Finestre was the same level as 2015 Contador.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

You know you're grasping when you're comparing climbing times 18 years apart 1 on 1.

It's like saying Froomes Finestre was the same level as 2015 Contador.

It's amazing how others are grasping, but you get to post the dumbest *** imaginable.

 

[titan31]

He was very unsure before the crash too, he started late with bike riding and that is handicap for sure

Ya, that's fair enough. It's something he has to work on really. It will seriously limit him in GTs otherwise. That explosiveness sprint wise will be harder to improve I think but that's not a necessity. Descending skills are.

 

[kingjr]

It's mainly DQS responsible for all that over-hype and confusion that has been created around Remco and his chances in this Giro. Not media, journalists, fans his teammates or Remco himself.

Why? Because no one ever in their right mind gives a leadership in the GT and puts so much pressure on a 21 year old guy, coming back straight after serious injury, with only 2,5 months of training, no racing for 9 months, being a debutant in a GT, never done a single real mountain race in his life, racing on a bike no longer than 4 years = also seriously lacking bike-handling skills.

I really can't think of any sensible reason for making Remco do this Giro as his first race after the crash, not even talking about giving him the #1 leadership. But there could be only one explanation. DQS really belived that he's able to fight for the win or at least top 3 (because anything worse than that wouldn't be worth all the risk and sacrifice).

Could this have anything to do with Quick Step's search for a sponsor that they felt they would have to present him on the big stage just to show that he can keep up despite his crash? And that they thought the best way to get him up to speed would be in a controlled environment rather than in a race like Romandie? I'm wildly speculating right now, I have no idea about how any of this works.

 

[Rackham]

It's mainly DQS responsible for all that over-hype and confusion that has been created around Remco and his chances in this Giro. Not media, journalists, fans his teammates or Remco himself.

Why? Because no one ever in their right mind gives a leadership in the GT and puts so much pressure on a 21 year old guy, coming back straight after serious injury, with only 2,5 months of training, no racing for 9 months, being a debutant in a GT, never done a single real mountain race in his life, racing on a bike no longer than 4 years = also seriously lacking bike-handling skills.

I really can't think of any sensible reason for making Remco do this Giro as his first race after the crash, not even talking about giving him the #1 leadership. But there could be only one explanation. DQS really belived that he's able to fight for the win or at least top 3 (because anything worse than that wouldn't be worth all the risk).

So then, why is anyone surprised that there's so much expected from him, that he's being so mych hyped form left and right? After the decision about his start people could think that he really is that Ramco terminator, having every right to do so.

Why not let him come back quietly, do some smaller races, make 100% sure his body is recovered from the injury (we all remember there were some complications in terms of that)? The whole career is ahead of him with possibly another 20+ GT starts. Why they had to rush things that much?

This is pretty much where I am.

In this Giro they've gone too fast with him & skipped the foundations. Considering his situation as a relative newbie in cycling, they could have looked at how others in similar situations did it & learned from them, i.e. first GT aim for stage wins & learn, then go to one week races & aim for the GC in those, then come back & aim for the overall GC in a Grand Tour. That builds experience, ability & confidence.

I'm thinking Roglic is the perfect example of the aforementioned gradual & progressive build-up towards turning someone who didn't ride a bike as a kid into a world beater. Evenepoel could learn from that example.

And then there's the fact Deceuninck themselves have totally fallen to pieces in this race, for real, i.e. certainly compared to their usual self-assured competent selves. Whenever there's a split in the peloton or some imminent "danger close" moment, it's now totally usual to see the DQS guys at the back chasing to fix a self-inflicted problem (like today getting dropped on the descent).

 

[Netserk]

LOL. no. and i think you understood full well what i wrote, but you are trolling.

those who point that the hype is not valid are pointing to this giro as the proof.

and that is just plain stupid.

I didn't write about the hype in general.

I wrote about the over-hyping for this Giro. Apparently, you didn't understand very well what I wrote. Or were you trolling?

 

[TMJ]

You cannot win GTs unless you are near or at the front on descents. The same issues of stage 11 showed up again.

Positioning and bike handling play a huge part in cycling.

The lack of explosiveness is also a big issue, however, I’m not sure what can be done to remedy that disadvantage aside from CX and weight training. He’s on the low side of athletic explosiveness relative to other professionals.

When you look at Bernal and Pogacar they can explode up climbs and those who can’t do forceful explosions are doomed.

I saw that he’s scheduled to do La Vuelta but I’m not sure what this going to accomplish as it has more of the same high gradient explosive climbs.

If you look at this year's Grand Tour's Remco is probably best suited to the Tour de France.
There are two nice length time trials 27k and 31k at Stages 5 and 21, so early enough to put him in position and then a late one to make up any time lost.
More importantly there are no long gravel sections and he would have had eight more weeks of recovery time, plus the opportunity to compete in a short multi stage race to get back into the racing rhythm.
Maybe his eagerness to be fresh for the Olympics was an important factor in taking on this Giro, which is an absolute brute of a race in terrible conditions with little preparation.

 

[HelloDolly]

sure, but the only reason the over-hype is not (now) worthy is that he had a terrible accident at a point when he may have ended up with the top season of any rider in 2020 at the age of 20... unheard of. In fact, before his accident, he had achieved things not one other rider in the history of cycling had done by the age of 20. not one.

and he seemed to be getting better and better...

the problem is that people continue to evaluate him and compare him on present riding after a terrible accident, a rushed preparation, and not racing for 9 months.

that's just stupid.

his early career now must have a different trajectory. and such is life.

does not mean that the hype was not valid, and may yet turn out to be on point.

for now, though, that assessment simply cannot be made.

now if he never recovers his earlier ability -- and I am talking here about the ability to dominate at ITTs and go on long, long raids over hilly/mid-mountain-type stages, then we may actually be talking about the greatest "what may have been" since Monsere's death or Merckx's Blois accident (yes, Merckx would likely have been even more dominant)... and that would still not make the initial hype wrong, only frustrating that we never got to see what could have been.

man gives demonstration of how hype actually works !!!!!!

 

[Mayomaniac]

The team throwing him to the wolves (pun intended) with no racing and experience when it came to descending in the bunch and fighting for positions after his crash is clearly not helping him, I doubt you can say anything about his potential as a gc rider after this Giro.
He clearly has some flaws when it comes to his bike handling and descending skills, but with him starting late it's pretty reasonable to thing that he can improve in those areas (the team probably should have worked more on that aspect of racing with him since the start).
Cassani noticed his poor descending already on stage 4, he started nearly all the descents at the front of the bunch (the team did a good job to get him in that position) and he finished them at the back of the bunch.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

This is pretty much where I am.

In this Giro they've gone too fast with him & skipped the foundations. Considering his situation as a relative newbie in cycling, they could have looked at how others in similar situations did it & learned from them, i.e. first GT aim for stage wins & learn, then go to one week races & aim for the GC in those, then come back & aim for the overall GC in a Grand Tour. That builds experience, ability & confidence.

I'm thinking Roglic is the perfect example of the aforementioned gradual & progressive build-up towards turning someone who didn't ride a bike as a kid into a world beater. Evenepoel could learn from that example.

And then there's the fact Deceuninck themselves have totally fallen to pieces in this race, for real, i.e. certainly compared to their usual self-assured competent selves. Whenever there's a split in the peloton or some imminent "danger close" moment, it's now totally usual to see the DQS guys at the back chasing to fix a self-inflicted problem (like today getting dropped on the descent).

The team has done an awful job at managing him, because they know how eager he is. Remco has always gone full gas. He's always raced full gas. He wants to win, he wants to compete. It's who he is. Last year i got straight up hate comments in this topic, because i held the team responsible for what happened in Lombardia. Like i said before, he'd only raced for 18 months before turning pro, he doesn't have the technical skills, the tactical baggage that other riders have when they turn pro, or better, when they start competing. The writing was on the wall, so many times. First 6 months after turning pro he crashed time after time. Turkey, Romandie (3 or 4 times in one week), UAE, Adriatica Ionica... The team did nothing. Going into Lombardia last year, a descent that has caused so many problems for experienced pros, he got pushed to his limits by Nibali. How did the team prepare him for this? So he crashes, recovery is going well... and after a few months the team lets him go to Spain on his own. At this point you have to start wondering about the intellectual capacities within the DQT staff. So something nobody could ever have imagined happening, he pushed himself too hard, too fast. What. A. Shocker. Now he has to stay off the bike for another two months. Oh, now he only has 3 months to get ready for the Giro. But he really really really wants it so... ok!

They seem to have a hard time guiding him.

 

[BlueRoads]

It's mainly DQS responsible for all that over-hype and confusion that has been created around Remco and his chances in this Giro. Not media, journalists, fans his teammates or Remco himself.

Why? Because no one ever in their right mind gives a leadership in the GT and puts so much pressure on a 21 year old guy, coming back straight after serious injury, with only 2,5 months of training, no racing for 9 months, being a debutant in a GT, never done a single real mountain race in his life, racing on a bike no longer than 4 years = also seriously lacking bike-handling skills.

I really can't think of any sensible reason for making Remco do this Giro as his first race after the crash, not even talking about giving him the #1 leadership. But there could be only one explanation. DQS really belived that he's able to fight for the win or at least top 3 (because anything worse than that wouldn't be worth all the risk and sacrifice).

So then, why is anyone surprised that there's so much expected from him, that he's being so mych hyped form left and right? After the decision about his start people could think that he really is that Ramco terminator, having every right to do so.

Why not let him come back quietly, do some smaller races, make 100% sure his body is recovered from the injury (we all remember there were some complications in terms of that)? The whole career is ahead of him with possibly another 20+ GT starts. Why they had to rush things that much?

This so so much. I didn't believe it was possible for him to fight for the win here with that lack of base training over the winter (and no race miles). But the way the team treated this situation, going all in for GC, and the statements which weren't cocky, but through which some big hope seemed to shine through, made me doubt my assessment. I thought okay, maybe they have some spectacular numbers which give them a reason for this.
Apparently it's hard to tell where a rider actually stands before a GT. I think you could have been more restrained in your statements than DQS though. They could have said that it's just about making it through the 3 weeks as good as possible, there's no way he's going to fight for the win by now, - and then, when he actually would have, so what?
I wonder how much they got carried away by their hope for something super spectacular themselves, or how much the sponsors / finances played a role here.