Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

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This is a discussion forum. Remco going rogue is a possibility, worth discussing. It's an intriguing possibility and some overly sensitive fans are not reason enough to completely dismiss the idea.

If it makes you feel any better, I wouldn't hold it against Remco if it were true and I would root for him to succced.
I dismiss it because you didn’t make much of a case. It was sheer conjecture. But sure, “overly sensitive fans” must be it. :D

But in all seriousness my comment had as much to do with the thread in general, and the hand wringing and conjecture of a great many posts as it did with yours. That one just made me chuckle a bit. I think folks might be starting to take all this a bit too seriously. Twitter feuds amongst grown men in tights on bikes. Sometimes you just gotta laugh!

Peace, my friend, and apologies for jumping on your post.
 
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Wout's pace making in the mountains is a nice way to train for a mountain stage victory from the break when the opportunity arrises. Everything has its ulterior motives, only what benefits Wout will do. Otherwise he would have ridden for Vingegaard instead of trying to win for himself, when winning for himself might have caused Jumbo-Visma a crack at yellow. Imagine if Wout had been there when Vingegaard droped Pogacar. I think he's selfish through and through
If Wout had been there they would never have made up 5 minutes to Pogacar who's a very good descender and maybe didn't have his best day but wasn't close to completely cracking either. You make it sound like Vingegaard didn't win because of Wout being a bad helper.
Besides, that's the call of the Jumbo-car and the team bosses to make, if he shall work for Vingegaard they need to tell him, if he gets the freedom he gets the freedom. If they don't want him at the next Tour they don't need to take him (unless it's in his contract, but then it's their fault again for agreeing to that).
 
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If Wout had been there they would never have made up 5 minutes to Pogacar who's a very good descender and maybe didn't have his best day but wasn't close to completely cracking either. You make it sound like Vingegaard didn't win because of Wout being a bad helper.
Besides, that's the call of the Jumbo-car and the team bosses to make, if he shall work for Vingegaard they need to tell him, if he gets the freedom he gets the freedom. If they don't want him at the next Tour they don't need to take him (unless it's in his contract, but then it's their fault again for agreeing to that).
We simply don't know what Vingegaard could have done with a hand from Wout, because the latter was occupied with winning the stage, which may have been in the interests of the team, but certainly not those of Vingegaard, who, in the absence of Rogilc, was the team leader. Let us thus see if Wout can be as accomodating as Jumbo-Visma-Vingegaart was to the Belgian team when he didn't have the legs in favor of Evenepoel, but no. Then again Van Aert could only have helped Vingegaard had he stopped and waited for him, sacrificing his own victory. NADA!
 
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I suspect if were a lesser rider and it were do or die for the podium more acutely they would've asked Van Aert to wait.

I think the issue with Van Aert in the Tour is a bit overplayed because Belgian media are really playing it up for the green jersey etc.
 
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But who's idea was it to respond to attacks at 180km to go?
Every attack was to be countered by a Belgian. But nobody did 180 k of the end. So, Evenepoel had nog option not reacting. Otherwise he would have been criticized by the teamcoach, Van Aert and "baron' Merckx. By reacting twice in the race and doing his job, Evenepoel had no chance at all to race for the podium. And that exactly was the only reason Evenepoel had to fulfill that mission. Not only did Van Aert lost a strong helper in the final (which was necessary to win the worlds), but he and the coach never thought that Van Aert himself would have bad legs .
 
We simply don't know what Vingegaard could have done with a hand from Wout, because the latter was occupied with winning the stage, which may have been in the interests of the team, but certainly not those of Vingegaard, who, in the absence of Rogilc, was the team leader. The issue was that the Belgian team could not be as generous to Evenpoel as Jumbo-Visma was to Van Aert. But this has more to do with Wout than Evenepoel. Then again Van Aert could only have helped Vingegaard had he stopped and waited for him, sacrificing his own victory. NADA!
 
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I suspect if were a lesser rider and it were do or die for the podium more acutely they would've asked Van Aert to wait.

I think the issue with Van Aert in the Tour is a bit overplayed because Belgian media are really playing it up for the green jersey etc.
WvA's personal ambition (& its impact on the team) in the 2021 Tour de France is confined to "what if" scenarios only because Roglic hit the deck hard & was badly injured.

But straight off the bat it was crazy from a GC perspective to allow one rider (WvA in this case) to pursue stages & the yellow jersey itself in the first week when neither were in the interests of their GC leader (Jumbo have some responsibility in that as well, especially after the crashes which had weakened them). That stage 3 disaster was a total train wreck, with Gesink's DNF, Roglic losing WvA's wheel & getting bumped off the road, the entire JV team pulling with Roglic to minimize the time loss whilst WvA himself chased the leader group solo 30 seconds or so up the road after the later crash which eliminated Jack Haig. But the very fact Roglic was so badly hurt (i.e. a fact WvA didn't know at the time...) means WvA is basically absolved of any responsibility beyond that moment.

Vingegaard was just never the "challenger" to Pogacar who could demand total commitment from the rest of the team, i.e. at that point, WvA served Jumbo Visma best by going for stages himself. Because Vingegaard is no Roglic & even though he was the GC leader at that point, he wasn't going to win the Tour unless Pogacar crashed out. But there's small details (& yes, the Tour 2021 adds to them, as do his later comments about his objectives next year) & a bigger picture here regarding WvA which demonstrate his limitations in terms of team leadership. And the current totally unnecessary fallout with Evenepoel is part of that same leadership question mark over WvA's head.

I'm talking on a human level of course because as a bike rider WvA had every right to demand WC leadership. But there's always a price to pay in terms of keeping everyone happy, especially when the result isn't there (& that price in a defeat is always a form of contrition). The road race world championship loss was WvA's & his team manager's. Not Evenepoel's.

Ergo putting pressure on Evenepoel again via the media 4 days after the defeat is just wrong considering what happened (& what didn't) on the road.
 
I was thinking this tinfoilhat theory..How much bonus for Lulu from DQS for possible WC jersey? Purse strategy between big wolfies and kid wolfie for this, and/or possible combined purse split with Il Lombardia? :rolleyes:
This theory only works if Evenepoel has psychic powers and was able to predict at 180km from the line that Van Aert had jello legs on sunday. Because in any other scenario Alaphilippe isn't dropping Van Aert on these 150m climbs and gets outsprinted 99/100 times.
 
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WvA's personal ambition (& its impact on the team) in the 2021 Tour de France is confined to "what if" scenarios only because Roglic hit the deck hard & was badly injured.

But straight off the bat it was crazy from a GC perspective to allow one rider (WvA in this case) to pursue stages & the yellow jersey itself in the first week when neither were in the interests of their GC leader (Jumbo have some responsibility in that as well, especially after the crashes which had weakened them). That stage 3 disaster was a total train wreck, with Gesink's DNF, Roglic losing WvA's wheel & getting bumped off the road, the entire JV team pulling with Roglic to minimize the time loss whilst WvA himself chased the leader group solo 30 seconds or so up the road after the later crash which eliminated Jack Haig. But the very fact Roglic was so badly hurt (i.e. a fact WvA didn't know at the time...) means WvA is basically absolved of any responsibility beyond that moment.

Vingegaard was just never the "challenger" to Pogacar who could demand total commitment from the rest of the team, i.e. at that point, WvA served Jumbo Visma best by going for stages himself. Because Vingegaard is no Roglic & even though he was the GC leader at that point, he wasn't going to win the Tour unless Pogacar crashed out. But there's small details (& yes, the Tour 2021 adds to them, as do his later comments about his objectives next year) & a bigger picture here regarding WvA which demonstrate his limitations in terms of team leadership. And the current totally unnecessary fallout with Evenepoel is part of that same leadership question mark over WvA's head.

I'm talking on a human level of course because as a bike rider WvA had every right to demand WC leadership. But there's always a price to pay in terms of keeping everyone happy, especially when the result isn't there (& that price in a defeat is always a form of contrition). The road race world championship loss was WvA's & his team manager's. Not Evenepoel's.

Ergo putting pressure on Evenepoel again via the media 4 days after the defeat is just wrong considering what happened (& what didn't) on the road.
Good post, but who knows with time if Vingegaard will be as good as Roglic or even better? He is young and perhaps has a margin for considerable improvement. Time will tell.
 
This theory only works if Evenepoel has psychic powers and was able to predict at 180km from the line that Van Aert had jello legs on sunday. Because in any other scenario Alaphilippe isn't dropping Van Aert on these 150m climbs and gets outsprinted 99/100 times.
Dunno, after 268 k 99/100 isn't a given. And Ala won MSR so...he is quite fast after long and grueling ordeals.
 
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Good post, but who knows with time if Vingegaard will be as good as Roglic or even better? He is young and perhaps has a margin for considerable improvement. Time will tell.
Funny anecdote: during their altitude training before the Tour (either in Sierra Nevada or the Alps, I don't know), Roglic apparently told Vingegaard he could win the Tour based on the numbers he was showing. Jumbo had to put the breaks on that & went "no, no, no Primoz!".

But I think that desire to protect Vingegaard from pressure especially after the Roglic DNF also played into giving WvA freedom in the Tour (or at least served both goals quite conveniently, i.e. giving WvA what he wanted & also preserving Vingegaard from pressure).

Building-up Vingegaard is JV's long term objective.
 
I dismiss it because you didn’t make much of a case. It was sheer conjecture. But sure, “overly sensitive fans” must be it. :D

But in all seriousness my comment had as much to do with the thread in general, and the hand wringing and conjecture of a great many posts as it did with yours. That one just made me chuckle a bit. I think folks might be starting to take all this a bit too seriously. Twitter feuds amongst grown men in tights on bikes. Sometimes you just gotta laugh!

Peace, my friend, and apologies for jumping on your post.
Some, though, may actually have raced and are well prepared for critical analysis.
 
I am a fan of both riders and feel neither has emerged from the episode looking good but the worst of all is the national team manager who surely cannot keep the job after this fiasco on home roads on a course so we’ll suited to their squad.

Wout in particular needs to show some more humility considering he simply didn’t have the legs to win when it mattered.

It’s fortunate for both that immediately they have some massive goals to refocus on and limit the time spent looking inwards with regret and bitterness.
 
I dismiss it because you didn’t make much of a case. It was sheer conjecture. But sure, “overly sensitive fans” must be it. :D

But in all seriousness my comment had as much to do with the thread in general, and the hand wringing and conjecture of a great many posts as it did with yours. That one just made me chuckle a bit. I think folks might be starting to take all this a bit too seriously. Twitter feuds amongst grown men in tights on bikes. Sometimes you just gotta laugh!

Peace, my friend, and apologies for jumping on your post.
It's just the beginning of the month, but this might be the winner for quote of the month.
 
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