Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Didinho]

Yes indeed, unless you're David Gaudu!

Everyone eagerly waiting to see him in Roubaix.

 

[Netserk]

Gilbert wouldn't win on the Lombardia routes since then except for 2014. And he wouldn't compete on routes like Tokyo '21.

 

[Panda Claws]

Screw Tinkov’s 2015 GC challenge for Contador, Nibali, Quintana, and Froome to ride all three GTs, we need WVA, MVDP, Pog, and Evenepoel to race each other in every monument next year.

And Scheldeprijs!

 

[SHAD0W93]

And Scheldeprijs!

Honestly Evenepoel could roll up and Quickstep does what they’ve been saying they should do with Tony Martin on having the train on Evenepoel’s wheel then dropping off. I could see Evenepoel soloing away if that’s done at like 10 KM to go.

 

[Salvarani]

That is not quite true. From 2009 to 2011 Gilbert was competitive in exactly the same races that Pogacar was competitive in today. In 2010 he was clearly 3rd best and in 2011 he plausibly could have won RVV. We also cannot give Pogacar any extra points because he is doing so as a GC rider as that is irrelevant (not saying you are doing this).

Generally I don't think you necessarily have to be the most versatile to be the best classics rider.

Your post also made the discrepancy between Pogacar and Evenepoel look larger than it was by listing all the races Pogacar competed in even though all of them apart from possibly SB and RVV were redundant because Evenepoel clearly could win them too.

Pogacar gets versatility points for SB (Evenepoel unproven on gravel) and when there are lots of cobbles (not like Evenepoel never rode on cobbles though).
On the other hand Evenepoel has won races on easy parcours that Pogacar would probably struggle more on (WC, NC this year).

You could give Pogacar MSR but Evenepoel could definitely ride that too and it's not easy to win for Pogacar either.

Overall I do agree that Pogacar is a better classics rider at this point because winning RVV does show impressive versatility and because Evenepoel could likely struggle to drop Pogacar on hilly races. Evenepoel does have his own bit of versatility on flatter, easier races that should deserve mention as well. If Evenepoel can show more of that I might end up favoring him in this regard.

Again, I said current peloton! We are not having a debate on who is best one day racer of all time or something. Pointless, it is Merckx. Nobody has gone into the GC-stuff at all either.

Evenepoel has never raced some of the races that Pog has won so far... you are basing your point on a hypothetical.

Pogacar has proved himself in every type of race... he is therefore the best one-day racer out there atm. There is no debate about that and I am not making the "discrepancy" larger than it is, if that is how you interpret that. That was just a run-down of the races he has won that features most there is when it comes to big one-day races.

I dont buy the versatility on a "flat" or "easier" course. What does that even mean? If anything, Pog has done long solos too. He was pretty spectacular on the last stage in Paris as well... if only he didnt have one JV-rider on his wheel.

Evenepoel has the chance to potentially take over the crown in the future... if he starts to race more of the biggest races and wins them. Like I said multiple times... we will see more in the future. I am not doubting that he wont or cant do it either. I dont think I have said that... I can only speak on the present and the past. Pogacar is the best one-day racer in moment of time, currently, backed by his results across every type of race and what races he has actually won so far.

Van Aert is one of few who comes close based on versatility... but he doesnt have the results (read wins) to claim being the best one-day racer. MVDP doesnt have the same versatility... but he has the big wins to back it up.

Only Remco could really be close to matching or surpass Pog, if he starts racing and making results in other type of races.

 

[Riek s]

Honestly Evenepoel could roll up and Quickstep does what they’ve been saying they should do with Tony Martin on having the train on Evenepoel’s wheel then dropping off. I could see Evenepoel soloing away if that’s done at like 10 KM to go.

I wonder why they don't use that obstruction tactic in a lot more situations.

Like this year in Catalunya. When Remco went on the second to last etappe, if they moved along when Evenepoel went, but stopped when they were next to Roglic, Roglic wouldn't have been able to make the jump behind Evenepoel as fast as he did. (Maybe its easier to see on helicopter shots, but still.. Such an action would have opened up the race completely.)

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I wonder why they don't use that obstruction tactic in a lot more situations.

Like this year in Catalunya. When Remco went on the second to last etappe, if they moved along when Evenepoel went, but stopped when they were next to Roglic, Roglic wouldn't have been able to make the jump behind Evenepoel as fast as he did. (Maybe its easier to see on helicopter shots, but still.. Such an action would have opened up the race completely.)

I enjoyed that stage. Remco was going to take over a minute on Roglic. Then it turned out he couldn’t even drop him.

 

[Peyroteo94]

This thread is going to catch froome's thread by the end of Vuelta. This is nuts! Two more years and Contador is down too.

 

[houtdffan]

I enjoyed that stage. Remco was going to take over a minute on Roglic. Then it turned out he couldn’t even drop him.

they should do that on the flat finishes in the Vuelta. Get a aero bullet Remco and then lose the wheel about 1.5km from the finish

Could be easy bonus seconds at a minimum

 

[Andy schleck]

they should do that on the flat finishes in the Vuelta. Get a aero bullet Remco and then lose the wheel about 1.5km from the finish

Could be easy bonus seconds at a minimum

Fortunately there's isn't a TT of 100 km in the vuelta. Remco would put 7/10 min on roglic and vingegaard.

 

[Volderke]

So the consensus is that Evenepoel won the World championships because MvdP got arrested. Wasn't there a rumour that Evenepoel hired those girls or called the police so he cunningly got MvdP out of the race before it even started? (*)

A bit more serious:
I think a lot of people on this forum, of all sorts - either optimistic, pessimistic or neutral with regards to Evenepoel's ranking in comparison to other top riders - are a bit frustrated that Evenepoel is not racing enough against the other top riders, so there is more talking going on on this forum than we see the kid racing against Pogacar, Vingegaard, MvdP and others.

But I'm hopeful asthe next 4-5 weeks look very promising , with the World's and the Vuelta. I can only hope that we see some real mano-a-mano racing with Evenepoel vs. the riders mentioned above. Ideally every single one of those is in good shape (like Vingegaard in the Vuelta) and has a star role in the final of the races without suffering mechanicals or crashes (like Evenepoel in Lombardia 2020 or Pogacar in LBL 2023).


(*) disclaimer: irony may be hidden in this post

 

[hender-retour]

Cant wait for Vuelta to come. So many scores to settle in here it seems 😅

On a serious note. I look forward to see if he is fully developed or has room for improvement as well as what he can do about his solid frame in coming GT's. Maybe he can do a Indurain/Armstrong string, but I guess that depends on competition where at least two guys is up to dance.

 

[hayneplane]

For now I take Pogacar as number one in the classics as he both races the widest spectrum of events and has demonstrated the ability to win across hills, cobbles, gravel and win solo or small groups.

Remco is an endurance beast with an incredible record in long races and does very well in championship races with circuits. Needs to widen the events he enters to get to number one.

MVDP has a fabulous palmares and is a beast of a rider but I personally deduct points from him for sticking to his comfort zone in terms of the classics as, barring the weird calendar of the Covid 2020 season, he has never ridden LBL or Lombardia.

To use a boxing analogy Pogacar in competing in and winning the Ronde against Wout and Mathieu head to head moved up a couple of weight division to meet new rivals on their own playground and won convincingly. I have not seen this from any of the other current outstanding riders.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

And Scheldeprijs!

That‘s included in the monuments category.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I enjoyed that stage. Remco was going to take over a minute on Roglic. Then it turned out he couldn’t even drop him.

So funny seeing people make all these claims about other people supposedly having made claims. The condition was always that he would need to get an initial gap for that to work. If he had, chances are Roglic would have finished with the rest of the chasing group.

 

[dazaau]

Fortunately there's isn't a TT of 100 km in the vuelta. Remco would put 7/10 min on roglic and vingegaard.

After that tour TT you might need to remove Jonas from that list.

Vuelta is going to be great.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

After that tour TT you might need to remove Jonas from that list.

Vuelta is going to be great.

In regard to Remco’s GT ITT superiority, may I present:

Remco beat Roglic by :48, Cavagna by 1:00, and Rodriguez by 1:22 in the ITT during stage 10 of the Vuelta. The ITT was 33km and winning time 33:18.

Vingegaard beat Pogacar by 1:38, Cavagna by 3:06, and Rodriguez by 3:36. The ITT was 22km and winning time 32:36.

This isn’t an apples to apples comparison and doesn’t tell the whole story, as Logic will no doubt elucidate with religious rigor, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[dazaau]

In regard to Remco’s GT ITT superiority, may I present:

Remco beat Roglic by :48, Cavagna by 1:00, and Rodriguez by 1:22 in the ITT during stage 10 of the Vuelta. The ITT was 33km and winning time 33:18.

Vingegaard beat Pogacar by 1:38, Cavagna by 3:06, and Rodriguez by 3:36. The ITT was 22km and winning time 32:36.

This isn’t an apples to apples comparison and doesn’t tell the whole story, as Logic will no doubt elucidate with religious rigor, but interesting nonetheless.

That's was very interesting indeed. Ignoring this one result you would go with Remco, esp if it is more flat or rolling. But we can't ignore it now, it's burned in our memories.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

What I would like to know. If Remco was in pogs position during the Tour, with the amount of following Vingo did, how many pairs of handle bars would Remco get through, by banging them umpteen times during the stages when Vingo didn't come through for a pull.

 

[rikvanlooy]

Two LBL starts. Two LBL wins.
Three CSS starts. Three CSS wins.
One WCC start as leader. One WCC win. And we all know he could have won in Leuven had the national coach not been a complete moron.
He won the Belgian National RR, which was a course tailormade for sprinters, solo.

"He can be in the future" lol. Van der Poel and Van Aert aren't even in the discussion. It's him and Pog. This isn't about palmares, it's about the likelihood to win when starting.

Last three 250+k one day races, he won 3 out of 3. He has started 20 one day races of over 200km since turning pro. He has won 8 of those 20. Of the last 7, he won 6. Of the last 5, he won 5. Yeah, maybe in the future.

Van der Poel has 6 out of 31. Pogacar 6 out of 27.

Nobody comes close with regards the strike rate of Remco (Monuments/WCC)

Remco won 3 times out of 7.
Pogacar is 4 out of 15 (BTW : Pogacar is 0 out of 2 at the Clasica; Remco is 3 out of 3).
Van der Poel is 4 out of 16.
Van Aert is 1 out of 19.

Van Aert is an underperformer. The other 3 are winners.

For info : Merckx was 22 out of 62 (35 %). It's going to be almost impossible for Pogacar to do better than Merckx with regards to the classics. He will have to win the WCC and Lombardy this year to stand a chance and I think Remco is favorite for both those races.

 

[Netserk]

The more of them you do, especially in the same season, the lower your rate will be.

And Evenepoel is at 3/8 with Tokyo included.

 

[rikvanlooy]

The more of them you do, especially in the same season, the lower your rate will be.

And Evenepoel is at 3/8 with Tokyo included.

I don't know if this statement is correct. Maybe it is, maybe it's not. It was not true for Merckx. He rode a lot and his strike rate was still enormous. We will see who will win the WCC and Lombardy.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Ofc its true. If youre Van der Poel and Van Aert and sitting there and riding Liege after a hard spring, in a race that already doesn't suit you, you're bound to lose to a Remco or Pogi.

 

[tobydawq]

You are making some good points.

Like travers la flandres being more important than WCRR and LBL?

 

[Salvarani]

Like travers la flandres being more important than WCRR and LBL?

Especially that one.