Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[bNator]

So what then - did he dominate or did he have covid? I am confused here... Did he dominate until he got covid? Despite having covid?

You guys are hilarious. On one hand many of you are not ready to admit Rogla scalp last year simply isn't what it would be in normal cicumstances yet at the same time cry Remco had covid while apparently maybe dominating an event at the same yet not dominating as much as he would have had he not have covid...

And all this 3 weeks before an event which will put all doubts to rest. Or will it? I really hope there can be no excuses this time on either side though chances are slim...

 

[seasidehiking]

What if he gets dropped in the low mountains in 3 weeks?

Chances are equal that he wont get dropped. Thats the exciting part of sports.

 

[Elos Anjos]

I present to you my opinion, and any factual evidence that contradicts, refutes or counters said opinion I will deem invalid and shall not be counted.

This is the eulogy for this thread, good point.

 

[Riek s]

So what then - did he dominate or did he have covid? I am confused here... Did he dominate until he got covid? Despite having covid?

You guys are hilarious. On one hand many of you are not ready to admit Rogla scalp last year simply isn't what it would be in normal cicumstances yet at the same time cry Remco had covid while apparently maybe dominating an event at the same yet not dominating as much as he would have had he not have covid...

And all this 3 weeks before an event which will put all doubts to rest. Or will it? I really hope there can be no excuses this time on either side though chances are slim...

To be fair, If you look at Roglic last Vuelta and his Giro this year (which was prepped very well), the differences between him and Almeida was huge. In the giro he won 1min15 over Almeida in Vuelta 5min40. You can say it was suboptimal prepped for sure, but we don't know if/or how far off he actually was.. but his performances on paper weren't much worse compared to previous performances. The only, or biggest reason, why people are saying he was far off the mark was because he wasn't winning and so it will be tit for tat... A wins so B isn't peak, B wins so A isn't peak.

Next Vuelta can be packback, (since Giro didn't work out). Roglic is perfectly prepped as he desired, Remco isn't and won't reach his Giro level.
Question will be can Roglic reach his Giro level and probably more important can Vingegaard reach his tour level... because if that one does... Roglic might be doing donkey duty after Kuss. (which might still be ok if Kuss isn't cycling on fumes).
(Geraint also has a score to settle with Roglic though who might be the only 'teammate' Remco has in the final 100km)

 

[DNP-Old]

So what then - did he dominate or did he have covid? I am confused here... Did he dominate until he got covid? Despite having covid?

You guys are hilarious. On one hand many of you are not ready to admit Rogla scalp last year simply isn't what it would be in normal cicumstances yet at the same time cry Remco had covid while apparently maybe dominating an event at the same yet not dominating as much as he would have had he not have covid...

And all this 3 weeks before an event which will put all doubts to rest. Or will it? I really hope there can be no excuses this time on either side though chances are slim...

> Remco drops Roglic left, right and center in the Vuelta. A minute here, a minute there. Another minute in the time trial: 'No, it's not fair. Roglic is still recovering from his crash in the Tour. Doesn't count.'
> Remco crashes and loses 48 seconds on Sierra de la Pandera: Huh, crash? Doesn't matter. Crashes are part of the game, nothing to see here.'
> Roglic crashes out of the Vuelta: 'No, this Vuelta doesn't count for Remco. Roglic crashed. '

> Remco puts three quarters of a minute into Roglic in less than 20 kilometers in the Giro: 'No, not fair. Roglic is still recovering from his Vuelta crash.'
> Remco contracts covid, which forces him to subsequently withdraw from said Giro, but not before winning the second time trial despite illness: 'Huh, illness? Part of the game bro, nothing to see here. This one counts by the way.'

 

[bNator]

> Remco drops Roglic left, right and center in the Vuelta. A minute here, a minute there. Another minute in the time trial: 'No, it's not fair. Roglic is still recovering from his crash in the Tour. Doesn't count.'
> Remco crashes and loses 48 seconds on Sierra de la Pandera: Huh, crash? Doesn't matter. Crashes are part of the game, nothing to see here.'
> Roglic crashes out of the Vuelta: 'No, this Vuelta doesn't count for Remco. Roglic crashed. '

> Remco puts three quarters of a minute into Roglic in less than 20 kilometers in the Giro: 'No, not fair. Roglic is still recovering from his Vuelta crash.'
> Remco contracts covid, which forces him to subsequently withdraw from said Giro, but not before winning the second time trial despite illness: 'Huh, illness? Part of the game bro, nothing to see here. This one counts by the way.'

And you wonder why you are laughed at. Get out of my thread, doofus.

You can fabricate all you want, but if you check things I actually said - I specifically said both of these count as special circumstance:

Well you can't have it both ways. If recovery from crash and starting to be affected by covid counts as a special circumstance where Rog-Remco inter-battle is nullified then sureley recovering from broken vertebrae must count as well. I'm saying both of these occasions count and therefore we currently can't say they had a GT battle where both would be unaffected by the special circumstance.

 

[Red Rick]

I hate to interrupt a discussion that has only played out 50 times, but take a chill pill.

 

[frisenfruitig]

In Giro, he didn’t dominate anything. He won TTs which was to be expected, the second one by a lesser margin than expected. And he got dropped by almost everybody in I forgot what hill it was. The mountains were yet to come and his prospects didn’t look that great TBH.

Do you really expect to be taken seriously if you post this kind of hogwash?

 

[bNator]

To be fair, If you look at Roglic last Vuelta and his Giro this year (which was prepped very well), the differences between him and Almeida was huge. In the giro he won 1min15 over Almeida in Vuelta 5min40. You can say it was suboptimal prepped for sure, but we don't know if/or how far off he actually was.. but his performances on paper weren't much worse compared to previous performances. The only, or biggest reason, why people are saying he was far off the mark was because he wasn't winning and so it will be tit for tat... A wins so B isn't peak, B wins so A isn't peak.

Next Vuelta can be packback, (since Giro didn't work out). Roglic is perfectly prepped as he desired, Remco isn't and won't reach his Giro level.
Question will be can Roglic reach his Giro level and probably more important can Vingegaard reach his tour level... because if that one does... Roglic might be doing donkey duty after Kuss. (which might still be ok if Kuss isn't cycling on fumes).
(Geraint also has a score to settle with Roglic though who might be the only 'teammate' Remco has in the final 100km)

Why will Remco not reach his Giro level?

I fully expect Roglic's level to be better this Vuelta than he was on the Giro. It will need to be id he want's a fighting chance against Vinge.

Do you really expect to be taken seriously if you post this kind of hogwash?

Ok now I am starting to get curious. Why is that a hogwash? Because in reality he dominated or because he had covid? I honestly don't understand... My take is completely different. The entire race I was sure Remco does not stand a chance against those guys (Thomas, Roglic & Tao) when the real mountains come. And glimpse of that could be seen on stage 8 (though yes, that could be down to covid already). He was very good on TT. We could say he dominated TT. But that's pretty far from dominating the event... Roglic dominated TTs even more in 2019. Everyone was talking about wearing pink from start to finish that year. And look how that turned out...

 

[Peter von]

Remco guested the latest WC edition of Watts Occurring, with Luke Row and Geraint Thomas; Didn't reveal anything ground breaking, but pretty nice.
The highlight was probably them calling him Lil'Bastatd.
Afterwards they either joked about Remco joining or downright said it was happening. Pretty sure it was a joke, a joke that is funny because it might happen.

Either way Remco sounded hungry enough and predicted a hard race

 

[tobydawq]

Remco guested the latest WC edition of Watts Occurring, with Lukw Row and GEraint Thomas. Didn't reveal anything ground breaking, but pretty nice.
The highlight was probably them calling him Lil'Bastatd.
Afterwards they either joked about Remco joining or downright said it was happening. Pretty sure it was a joke, a joke that is funny because it might happen.

Either way Remco sounded hungry enough and predicted a hard race

I liked the part where he said that if he was with Wout in the final, he should probably just ask for the win like in Wevelgem

 

[peterfin]

The entire race I was sure Remco does not stand a chance against those guys (Thomas, Roglic & Tao) when the real mountains come

It's one thing to believe that, it's another thing to have evidence. There was nothing in his preparation that pointed to this. His 'seconds' battle with Roglic's in the mountains a few weeks earlier showed that differences in the mountains would likely be small. On top of that, Remco knew he could ride much more defensively after claiming a significant gap in the TT's.

I also consider the chance of a complete breakdown minimal. He has no history to do so while being in shape and he even battles on when he is not top (in particular during his 2021 season). In Switzerland, when he was not in a good shape coming back from covid and he had no altitude training vs the others, he dieseled himself to the podium with 15-20 watts less vs his top shape (his words).

Remco is definitely a successful GT rider. Not many win their 2nd GT at that age. The main question is how good he is vs a top Pogacar and Vingegaard. The main issue is that this not only about him but also about his team. Winning the TdF is a huge challenge but I am sure it fires him up. Sometimes I have the impression that he can win things not just by his physical strength but also by his enormous willpower. The thing is that this is more an asset for a one-day race than a GT where you need the focus during 3 weeks. When his career is set and done, I have no doubt that his GT results will be great but probably not exceptional. What will likely be exceptional are his results in big one-day races.

 

[Riek s]

Why will Remco not reach his Giro level?

Because of the limited altitude training camp that stops a month before the Vuelta. He can't continue build up after San sebastian due to the Worlds. Him targetting the WC ITT and his power being less than last year around the same time.
Contrast to Giro where his LBL performance/power was very similar to last year (roche was climbed at similar speed) while this year it was not part of his peak while last year it was his peak.
Not saying he isn't/won't be strong, just not his absolute peak as he had when commencing the Giro.

 

[stonerider]

I'll just be glad when Remco quits hiding from peak Jonas and Tadaj at the TdF. Remco may beat a sub-peak Jonas at the Vuelta but it won't mean as much as beating him at the TdF.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

So what then - did he dominate or did he have covid? I am confused here... Did he dominate until he got covid? Despite having covid?

It should be hard to be confused about his Giro. He dominated the first TT a week before he got Covid. Then there was no GC action before the second weekend where he then tested positive for Covid after the TT. The timeline is pretty simple.

 

[tobydawq]

I'll just be glad when Remco quits hiding from peak Jonas and Tadaj at the TdF. Remco may beat a sub-peak Jonas at the Vuelta but it won't mean as much as beating him at the TdF.

It will mean plenty.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Ok now I am starting to get curious. Why is that a hogwash? Because in reality he dominated or because he had covid? I honestly don't understand... My take is completely different. The entire race I was sure Remco does not stand a chance against those guys (Thomas, Roglic & Tao) when the real mountains come. And glimpse of that could be seen on stage 8 (though yes, that could be down to covid already). He was very good on TT. We could say he dominated TT. But that's pretty far from dominating the event... Roglic dominated TTs even more in 2019. Everyone was talking about wearing pink from start to finish that year. And look how that turned out...

I'm probably wasting my time repeating what others have already pointed out to you, seemingly without any effect. If anything losing only a couple of seconds despite being sick is impressive, never mind actually winning a TT. This really shouldn't be that hard to grasp.

"Roglic dominated TTs even more in 2019"... Yes, so what? Is anyone saying Roglic is not a good time trialist?

 

[Valanga]

I'll just be glad when Remco quits hiding from peak Jonas and Tadaj at the TdF. Remco may beat a sub-peak Jonas at the Vuelta but it won't mean as much as beating him at the TdF.

Oh but don't worry, even then there will still be excuses why one or the other was not in actual peak form.

 

[seasidehiking]

I'll just be glad when Remco quits hiding from peak Jonas and Tadaj at the TdF. Remco may beat a sub-peak Jonas at the Vuelta but it won't mean as much as beating him at the TdF.

Maybe to you. But rest assured in case Remco beats Vinge in The Vuelta. Vinge will have this nagging feeling that he will cary till the TDF. Vice versa too, if Remco loses (heavily) from a ‘just out of the Tour’ Vinge, it will eat him inside. Its just the nature of being competitive.

 

[bNator]

I'm probably wasting my time repeating what others have already pointed out to you, seemingly without any effect. If anything losing only a couple of seconds despite being sick is impressive, never mind actually winning a TT. This really shouldn't be that hard to grasp.

"Roglic dominated TTs even more in 2019"... Yes, so what? Is anyone saying Roglic is not a good time trialist?

I don’t think so. I think I’m wasting mine😁

Enjoy your time guys and take it easy… and remember - even if Remco loses the Vuelta, it will be due to bad prep😜

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

It’s kind of troll behavior to go into a thread, write something controversial and then completely overlook the serious answers you get and just blame everyone else…

 

[Netserk]

> Remco drops Roglic left, right and center in the Vuelta. A minute here, a minute there. Another minute in the time trial: 'No, it's not fair. Roglic is still recovering from his crash in the Tour. Doesn't count.'
> Remco crashes and loses 48 seconds on Sierra de la Pandera: Huh, crash? Doesn't matter. Crashes are part of the game, nothing to see here.'
> Roglic crashes out of the Vuelta: 'No, this Vuelta doesn't count for Remco. Roglic crashed. '

> Remco puts three quarters of a minute into Roglic in less than 20 kilometers in the Giro: 'No, not fair. Roglic is still recovering from his Vuelta crash.'
> Remco contracts covid, which forces him to subsequently withdraw from said Giro, but not before winning the second time trial despite illness: 'Huh, illness? Part of the game bro, nothing to see here. This one counts by the way.'

If only they had met elsewhere as well.

 

[Salvarani]

It’s kind of troll behavior to go into a thread, write something controversial and then completely overlook the serious answers you get and just blame everyone else…

Have not followed the particular discussion you are refering to.

But a difference of opinion doesnt have to mean it is controversial. Some people seem to be making it out to be controversial, the way they react and respond to things.

"Overlooking serious answers"... it doesnt mean they are the correct answers or that they are being overlooked. That feels subjective... not objective.

Blaming everyone else... yes, seems to be a lot of that going on indeed.

 

[DNP-Old]

If only they had met elsewhere as well.

Doesn't count, the glove on Roglic' left hand had a hole in it.

 

[Valanga]

If only they had met elsewhere as well.

Oh yeah I remember that race!

A bit pointless, no?