Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[red_flanders]

We're gonna go into 2021 and I still have no idea where to put him in absolute level

Really? What that we’ve seen indicates anything but major champion with multiple classic and GT wins? I know we don’t know for sure how he’ll do in a GT but wouldn’t you actually be shocked if he doesn’t compete for the win in his first ones?

I’ve been following cycling a long time, not as closely as some but I’ve not seen anyone like him or Pogačar in a long, long time.

 

[Red Rick]

Really? What that we’ve seen indicates anything but major champion with multiple classic and GT wins? I know we don’t know for sure how he’ll do in a GT but wouldn’t you actually be shocked if he doesn’t compete for the win in his first ones?

I’ve been following cycling a long time, not as closely as some but I’ve not seen anyone like him or Pogačar in a long, long time.

Mainly talking about GTs. And mainly talking about among the top GT riders.

 

[red_flanders]

Mainly talking about GTs. And mainly talking about among the top GT riders.

Well yeah, that's going to evolve over time. When you said "no idea" that's what make me ask.

 

[Big Doopie]

The discussion was about him riding the Giro, not the 2021 Tour.

Ah. My bad.

Yes, giro, he would destroy.

 

[gunara]

Well yeah, that's going to evolve over time. When you said "no idea" that's what make me ask.

He's never ridden a GT, he had a bad injury and out for a long time. I think for some it's enough to not have any idea of how he'll place himself among top GC riders

 

[IndurainsTdF1994]

I’ve been following cycling a long time, not as closely as some but I’ve not seen anyone like him or Pogačar in a long, long time.

Not sure Remco can be compared to Pogacar. I doubt he'll get close to a podium at TdF for a few of years..

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

We're gonna go into 2021 and I still have no idea where to put him in absolute level

Part of me hopes he isn't a dominant climber (like Bernal or Pogacar), but needs to go in the attack in mid-mountains, where he's shown some very exciting things already in the past (think of Adriatica Ionica, San Sebastian, Tour de Pologne etc), with long-ish range attacks to take back 1 to 2 minutes. Last thing i hope is for him to become an obnoxiously boring rider like Roglic. Sitting in the wheels of his doms, until 400 meters of the finish, rack up the boniseconds and wait for the ITT. Three years ago i thought Roglic was one of the most exciting riders to look out for in the future. Now i hope he loses every race he enters.

In reality, i think Remco will turn out the be an improved version in almost every way except uphill sprints, of Roglic. Stronger mentally, better ITT'er, better tempo-climber. I have difficulty seeing him fail due to 3 weeks racing, haven't seen any signs of inconsistency either. As long as he stays on his bike.

 

[IndurainsTdF1994]

Part of me hopes he isn't a dominant climber (like Bernal or Pogacar), but needs to go in the attack in mid-mountains, where he's shown some very exciting things already in the past (think of Adriatica Ionica, San Sebastian, Tour de Pologne etc), with long-ish range attacks to take back 1 to 2 minutes. Last thing i hope is for him to become an obnoxiously boring rider like Roglic. Sitting in the wheels of his doms, until 400 meters of the finish, rack up the boniseconds and wait for the ITT. Three years ago i thought Roglic was one of the most exciting riders to look out for in the future. Now i hope he loses every race he enters.

In reality, i think Remco will turn out the be an improved version in almost every way except uphill sprints, of Roglic. Stronger mentally, better ITT'er, better tempo-climber. I have difficulty seeing him fail due to 3 weeks racing, haven't seen any signs of inconsistency either. As long as he stays on his bike.

I'm not sure Roglic is the right comparison. Class rider, but probably not comparable to Pogacar talentwise (glimpses of that already in last year's Vuelta). It's Pogacar that Remco will be looking at the back of.. probably even in the ITTs given that stage 20 perf of Pogacar.

 

[Red Rick]

Part of me hopes he isn't a dominant climber (like Bernal or Pogacar), but needs to go in the attack in mid-mountains, where he's shown some very exciting things already in the past (think of Adriatica Ionica, San Sebastian, Tour de Pologne etc), with long-ish range attacks to take back 1 to 2 minutes. Last thing i hope is for him to become an obnoxiously boring rider like Roglic. Sitting in the wheels of his doms, until 400 meters of the finish, rack up the boniseconds and wait for the ITT. Three years ago i thought Roglic was one of the most exciting riders to look out for in the future. Now i hope he loses every race he enters.

In reality, i think Remco will turn out the be an improved version in almost every way except uphill sprints, of Roglic. Stronger mentally, better ITT'er, better tempo-climber. I have difficulty seeing him fail due to 3 weeks racing, haven't seen any signs of inconsistency either. As long as he stays on his bike.

He's gonna be trash over 3 weeks obviously cause all those intermediate flat stages aren't hard enough for him to be recovery rides and he struggles with rest days you heard it here first.

No but the W/kg vs the real top dogs is the big question cause I'm pretty sure he has a decent aero advantage enabling him to get to a climb fresher/save more energy as drafting is signficant.

 

[SafeBet]

In reality, i think Remco will turn out the be an improved version in almost every way except uphill sprints, of Roglic.

Yeah you just need to add a couple of 0s to the length of his attacks.

Roglic = 1 km
Remco = 100 km

 

[hayneplane]

Part of me hopes he isn't a dominant climber (like Bernal or Pogacar), but needs to go in the attack in mid-mountains, where he's shown some very exciting things already in the past (think of Adriatica Ionica, San Sebastian, Tour de Pologne etc), with long-ish range attacks to take back 1 to 2 minutes. Last thing i hope is for him to become an obnoxiously boring rider like Roglic. Sitting in the wheels of his doms, until 400 meters of the finish, rack up the boniseconds and wait for the ITT. Three years ago i thought Roglic was one of the most exciting riders to look out for in the future. Now i hope he loses every race he enters.

In reality, i think Remco will turn out the be an improved version in almost every way except uphill sprints, of Roglic. Stronger mentally, better ITT'er, better tempo-climber. I have difficulty seeing him fail due to 3 weeks racing, haven't seen any signs of inconsistency either. As long as he stays on his bike.

He wont be able to do that based on his current skillset as he would be middle of the pack at best among the GC guys for last 500 metres kick so relying on accumulating bonus seconds would be a doomed strategy unlike Roglic and Pogacar who can hoover up plenty of bonus seconds.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Belgian superstar physiotherapist Lieven Maesschalck, (who treated sportsroyalty such as Wout van Aert, Eden Hazard, Luca Modric, Frank Vandenbroucke, Johan Musseeuw, Justine Henin...) where Remco is currently rehabilitating, says he is amazed by Remco's progress and has no doubt he will come back stronger than before. Can't tell you more, since the rest is behind a paywall

No but the W/kg vs the real top dogs is the big question cause I'm pretty sure he has a decent aero advantage enabling him to get to a climb fresher/save more energy as drafting is signficant.

I don't know if W/kg is really the question. In Burgos he was still 2kg above his goal weight. For a rider his size, that's a lot of margin at 61kg. Summer 2019 he said the lab results of his then latest FTP said he pushed 450W. Assuming that is over 20 minutes, then he should theoretically be able to push around 427W for an hour, which is immense for his weight. Your theory was actually put to the test in Burgos, where the lead-up to the climb was raced hard in the crosswinds, and all the skinny climbers were completely dead. No Kuss, Sosa, Yates... to be seen. They all cracked early on the climb.

 

[Big Doopie]

Part of me hopes he isn't a dominant climber (like Bernal or Pogacar), but needs to go in the attack in mid-mountains, where he's shown some very exciting things already in the past (think of Adriatica Ionica, San Sebastian, Tour de Pologne etc), with long-ish range attacks to take back 1 to 2 minutes. Last thing i hope is for him to become an obnoxiously boring rider like Roglic. Sitting in the wheels of his doms, until 400 meters of the finish, rack up the boniseconds and wait for the ITT. Three years ago i thought Roglic was one of the most exciting riders to look out for in the future. Now i hope he loses every race he enters.

In reality, i think Remco will turn out the be an improved version in almost every way except uphill sprints, of Roglic. Stronger mentally, better ITT'er, better tempo-climber. I have difficulty seeing him fail due to 3 weeks racing, haven't seen any signs of inconsistency either. As long as he stays on his bike.

i think the crazy thing is that he will attack on the mid-mountain stuff (just like in Tour de Pologne) without a doubt.

but had he been able to do the giro this year, i also think he would have targeted the Stelvio stage to do an "exploit"...

it's the type of stuff he did as junior and has now also done as a pro (Pologne and San Sebastian) -- he likes to just ride people off his wheel and then time trial to the finish. and this year's stelvio all he would have had to do is drop dennis on the stelvio. nothing against dennis's own incredible performance, but i feel like remco would have simply ridden away from that quite easily and then continued on as a time trial (just like he did in Pologne).

another thing... i really think that remco is fairly aware of his place in history already -- i.e. he wanted to be the youngest Giro winner. i have no doubt that the indication that he will do the TDF next year if there are no olympics, is because he wants to win at a younger age than Pog...

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Belgian superstar physiotherapist Lieven Maesschalck, (who treated sportsroyalty such as Wout van Aert, Eden Hazard, Luca Modric, Frank Vandenbroucke, Johan Musseeuw, Justine Henin...) where Remco is currently rehabilitating, says he is amazed by Remco's progress and has no doubt he will come back stronger than before. Can't tell you more, since the rest is behind a paywall


I don't know if W/kg is really the question. In Burgos he was still 2kg above his goal weight. For a rider his size, that's a lot of margin at 61kg. Summer 2019 he said the lab results of his then latest FTP said he pushed 450W. Assuming that is over 20 minutes, then he should theoretically be able to push around 427W for an hour, which is immense for his weight. Your theory was actually put to the test in Burgos, where the lead-up to the climb was raced hard in the crosswinds, and all the skinny climbers were completely dead. No Kuss, Sosa, Yates... to be seen. They all cracked early on the climb.

Absolutely. The guy who generates so much wattage out of so little weight must be an excellent climber. There's no way around physics. When was the last time that 60 kg guy was so good at TTs? He's a monster able to generate sustainable 7 w/kg, which is scary for his future GT rivals (except Pogacar maybe). The only question mark is regeneration but if he's at least decent at that there should be no problem (considering that he'll be racing at lower percentage of the threshold than most of his rivals).

 

[red_flanders]

Not sure Remco can be compared to Pogacar. I doubt he'll get close to a podium at TdF for a few of years..

This kind of observation really surprises me. I think he’ll podium first time and would be stunned if he hasn’t won one in a few years. I really don’t get what people think will stop him.

 

[dercuforever]

This kind of observation really surprises me. I think he’ll podium first time and would be stunned if he hasn’t won one in a few years. I really don’t get what people think will stop him.

More falls/injuries. Hopefully I'm wrong though.

 

[red_flanders]

More falls/injuries. Hopefully I'm wrong though.

Could be, sure. That’s about the only thing I think.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

Absolutely. The guy who generates so much wattage out of so little weight must be an excellent climber. There's no way around physics. When was the last time that 60 kg guy was so good at TTs? He's a monster able to generate sustainable 7 w/kg, which is scary for his future GT rivals (except Pogacar maybe). The only question mark is regeneration but if he's at least decent at that there should be no problem (considering that he'll be racing at lower percentage of the threshold than most of his rivals).

The last small top level TT’er was Hinault.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The last small top level TT’er was Hinault.

So a top3 rider of all time, wow.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

This kind of observation really surprises me. I think he’ll podium first time and would be stunned if he hasn’t won one in a few years. I really don’t get what people think will stop him.

It does surprise me that people put a cap on him. The only thing he’ll never be good at is sprinting but beyond that there very few races he cannot win.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

So a top3 rider of all time, wow.

Yeah, I think Remco is more talented than Hinault.

 

[Jamaican Jerk Chicken]

Lol what is going on here

 

[houtdffan]

The last small top level TT’er was Hinault.

Lemond was lighter than Hinault, and yet was a better TTer

 

[Big Doopie]

The last small top level TT’er was Hinault.

and that is precisely who he most reminds me of.

 

[Big Doopie]

Lemond was lighter than Hinault, and yet was a better TTer

hmmm.

are u sure about that?

I think lemond was taller...

and i really question whether he was a better TTer. (and I am a huuuuuge lemond fan).

Hinault beat him in every TT at the 1986 TDF when Hinault was at the end of his career.

and please check out the kind of time differences hinault would put into people in 78 and 79.

the tough thing about lemond is that he was no doubt one of the greatest and most talented riders ever. however, his career and chances to show that talent were so limited by first riding as a teammate of both hinault and fignon, then the hunting accident, and then his own illness and the peloton succumbing to EPO...

for instance, in modern times, no one has won a world championship alone by as much as Lemond did in 1983 (even Merckx or Hinault). and merckx commented at the time that it was an extraordinary feat.