I'm usually not a fan of whining. But Remco is right to moan his ass off. The coach should be sacked. Remco could have got a medal. Wout couldn't. The end.
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That's all after finding out Van Aert had a bad day. They were a good Stuyven sprint away from silver so that should hardly be the reason.I'm usually not a fan of whining. But Remco is right to moan his ass off. The coach should be sacked. Remco could have got a medal. Wout couldn't. The end.
Stuyven couldn't sprint cause he did too much work for Wout. Then after all that work from Stuyven and Remco, Wout pops up " It's only me. Actually I'm dead, try to make the best out of this mess". There has to be a Remco option (and a Vino option).That's all after finding out Van Aert had a bad day. They were a good Stuyven sprint away from silver so that should hardly be the reason.
I think it is a no-go to first say you agree to the tactics and then go complain about it in the media. It only creates a rift in the national team for future races.
The thing is, what if Remco gets a medal (not gold) but Wout ends up winning the bunch sprint behind?I'm usually not a fan of whining. But Remco is right to moan his ass off. The coach should be sacked. Remco could have got a medal. Wout couldn't. The end.
Anyone remember how someone wrote during the tour that if he was Vingegaard he would feel lonely (not having enough help from his team). The tweet Pog liked.
Also where can I see that talkshow? Not that I will understand a thing, but I want to see the spectacle of a cycling show discussing tactics with those random people :O
Coach should be the fall guy indeed, and Remco could just keep his mouth shut about it. But he couldn't do it...Stuyven couldn't sprint cause he did too much work for Wout. Then after all that work from Stuyven and Remco, Wout pops up " It's only me. Actually I'm dead, try to make the best out of this mess". There has to be a Remco option (and a Vino option).
Anyway, the coach should be the fall guy here.
Tadej did like it. There was a ps in LR podcast and I went to twitter to check it out myself, and it was hilariousI think that was Janez Brajkovic (I didn't see Tadej liking it, though) but it seems like he has deleted his Twitter account.
Agreed.In a way it's a bit amusing how both him and WVA have now missed the opportunity to look the gracious nice guys. Remco should've just played nice along afterwards, say something like "I gave it all, the crowds were amazing, sadly it didn't work out for us" and everyone loves him and he gets his chance probably next time. And WVA could've responded to his complaints with a simple "I understand his frustrations, he probably had the best legs that day, we made tactical mistakes." - gracious leader, story over. Instead he bitches back and looks even more egoistic.
But I guess that's just normal among overly motivated elite athletes, lot of ego clashing, at least its good for entertainment value.
Agreed.I think that 95% of the people who discuss this "Remco vs Wout battle" haven't actually seen the Extra Time show. While De Wolf and Van der Poel were questioning the tactics and De Wolf in a very blunt way, Remco was very mature and honest in his answers and was not questioning the coach. Yes, he had some doubts about his own role and he was also honest in telling the coach during the race (while being in a great spot) that his legs where very good but the coach confirmed that they would still go all-in for Wout with Jasper apparantly as a fall back and not him. It was only then that things where absolutely clear for him. To me this means that, before that moment, Vanthourenout never said in very clear words that Remco was only there to help. Remco was fine with it. He actually said that it was better this way. Of course, in the end he was disappointed that there was no medal for Belgium while there were opportunities (for him and Jasper). He had hoped that Wout was honest about his "bad legs" from the moment he felt it.
To me, it looks like the media wants to polarise things. It helps in selling articles. They also know that Remco is very open in his communication, something I like about him but that can be misused. I can also imagine that Wout, being emotionally involved, was not at all pleased with the show and in particular with the words of De Wolf. If he listened carefully, he would understand that Remco was not making a 180 degree turn. Both have clashed indirectly before when Remco made that comment about Groenewegen after his crash with Jacobsen. I think we will see more of this in the future and Remco will probably end up being the "bad guy" every single time, not because of who he his but due to his direct style of communication. If you can't do good after putting aside your own ambitions and going all-in for the team, there is little more you can do besides keeping your mouth shut. However, I think (and hope) he will never do that.
The evil guy on my right shoulder asks if Remco knew this, and thought 'well, I will show them I have better legs, and with those better legs I will crush WvA and Stuyven, and if they are good enough they'll survive and maybe win this and I will be the perfect helper, and if not, Alaphilippe will win this and I can claim I was one of the best and they served me wrong with my role in this race'.
Haha, gotta say I enjoy some nice internal fighting of overpowered teams/nations, too bad they won't race together for 12 months now.
In principle, Remco is right but if he can't make his stance in the teammeeting beforehand clear it's a bit cheap to complain afterwards.
In a way it's a bit amusing how both him and WVA have now missed the opportunity to look the gracious nice guys. Remco should've just played nice along afterwards, say something like "I gave it all, the crowds were amazing, sadly it didn't work out for us" and everyone loves him and he gets his chance probably next time. And WVA could've responded to his complaints with a simple "I understand his frustrations, he probably had the best legs that day, we made tactical mistakes." - gracious leader, story over. Instead he bitches back and looks even more egoistic.
But I guess that's just normal among overly motivated elite athletes, lot of ego clashing, at least its good for entertainment value.
I am now a bit more critical of Remco. His words were really those of a 21-year old who still has a lot to learn.
He might be right he could have done better, but it's not smart to say it out loud after the race. Especially not when he did some dubious moves:
The evil guy on my right shoulder asks if Remco knew this, and thought 'well, I will show them I have better legs, and with those better legs I will crush WvA and Stuyven, and if they are good enough they'll survive and maybe win this and I will be the perfect helper, and if not, Alaphilippe will win this and I can claim I was one of the best and they served me wrong with my role in this race'.
- while Remco said he was ordered to not let any dangerous move go, you could argue that Cosnefroy, at km 180, is NOT dangerous. He is only dangerous BECAUSE Evenepoel choose to follow and to pull with him. A smart response was to not follow that move, and only react when 3-4 more riders from other countries would react. Or another smart response would be to let another rider of the Belgian team follow the move without taking pulls (someone like Benoot, Teuns, Campenaerts,...). Remco decided to follow, and with that move alone he overreacted with doing his job he was supposed to do, and compromised his potential of riding alongside the favourites until very deep in the finale.
- In hindsight, WvA and Stuyven did way too much work to chase the Evenepoel group. They didn't have to do anything than to follow Alaphilippe. At that moment, they decided it would be wise to get to the front ASAP and get rid of anyone else in the chasing group. Fact is that they had 3 more Belgians in that chase group (but also Pogacar, Almeida, Sagan, Matthews,...). So they ordered Remco to set the pace so no one would come back. If Remco really wanted to help WvA, he should have tried to pull as long as possible, not as hard as possible until he would crack completely.
- If Remco knew that WvA and Stuyven were team leaders, he should know that making the race super hard is NOT the best way to bring those riders to the local laps, with guys like Alaphilippe in the same group.
Dunno, he explicitly said after the Euros that he would do everything he can to help Wout.In fairness to Remco Evenepoel, it should be noted the entire build up narrative to the world championship was twisted against him.
The critic that he wouldn't ride for anyone else started weeks before that.Dunno, he explicitly said after the Euros that he would do everything he can to help Wout.
Dunno, he explicitly said after the Euros that he would do everything he can to help Wout.
Until Remco's comments, my thoughts were:I think you are putting too much thought in it. The French said openly that they would attack early so I can imagine that the task was to join the attack whoever was in a good position. It was not a great move indeed, somebody else should have joined the French, but it does tell me that Remco was not racing to win for himself. Also, Remco didn't know how much the gap was behind him when WVA and Stuyven joined. They don't have earphones. WVA told him to pull so he did. How can he properly assess that he is pulling too hard and that the gap was growing to 2 minutes? The coach couldn't get near him. Making the race super hard was part of the game plan and not Remco's idea. The idea was that Belgium had the strongest rider who would outsprint anyone after a hard race.
Making the race hard was part of the plan. Making the race super hard was Remco's take. If WvA would have had a super day like in the Olympics, he could have pulled off Remco's work. But now, it seems that Remco's work did most damage to the Belgian team, by Remco having to let go too soon, and by wearing out two good shots at the win that are only good shots if it's a closed race, not a wild attacking fest that clearly was playing in the cards of the French, and it was also the way the French tried to do the whole race.
The evil guy on my right shoulder asks if Remco knew this, and thought 'well, I will show them I have better legs, and with those better legs I will crush WvA and Stuyven, and if they are good enough they'll survive and maybe win this and I will be the perfect helper, and if not, Alaphilippe will win this and I can claim I was one of the best and they served me wrong with my role in this race'.
In that breakaway with Declercq, I saw Evenepoel pulling way more than Declercq. I feel Declercq didn't have much in the legs anymore, and on the hills he barely hang on. You could say it was necessary that Remco drilled it, to make the Italians chase...The problem with the assumption Remco Evenepoel went harder than necessary in that first breakaway is the fact Tim Declercq also worked hard (& he was theoretically well placed to mediate race tactics between Evenepoel's work in the front group versus the rest of the team in the peloton).
Then when Evenepoel was pulling for van Aert in the final 50km (supposedly too hard), why didn't WvA himself tell him to slow down if it was a problem? He was right on his wheel & could have spoken to him.
Again, that's what a team leader does.