Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[houtdffan]

and this is precisely why some form of TT should be in literally every stage race (as it used to be).

if you have balance, then you also have the conflict between the better climber all-around rider and the better rouleur all-around rider. If Remco gains even 10 seconds in the opening TT at the giro, that changes everything, all tactics. Assuming Rog is the better climber (or at least finisher), then he now has to find the time on the road. Maybe he finds it and takes pink. Then maybe remco takes it back during the second week TT. Then Rog takes it back in the last week mountains, setting up an exciting final TT that includes both disciplines...

That is precisely how stage races are supposed to be fought out.

The recent routes with little to no TT do not serve cycling.

100% agreed!

The TT is an integral part of the sport. This modern trend of climbing is the only thing that counts is as much of an abomination as the Lance/Ullrich only peaking for the tour crap from 20 years ago

 

[noob]

Yes this. The reason I asked is because I just wanted to know if it was character or the accident. I like sussing out characters. I don't think it's his age that's the issue. He's more just like the McEnroe of cycling.

I had forgotten I had already said this a year ago :O I was searching for McEnroe in the tool box to see if anyone had seen the comparison more than me. Had no idea I had already done it a year ago. I stick to it!

 

[frisenfruitig]

I had forgotten I had already said this a year ago :O I was searching for McEnroe in the tool box to see if anyone had seen the comparison more than me. Had no idea I had already done it a year ago. I stick to it!

You should probably read McEnroe's wikipedia page if you think they are alike.

 

[noob]

You should probably read McEnroe's wikipedia page if you think they are alike.

You cannot be serious?!

 

[frisenfruitig]

You cannot be serious?!

McEnroe was a very controversial figure who had cocaine issues and was basically a giant ***. Evenepoel is a rather boring guy in comparison, I'm not seeing how there is a comparison between the two at all.

 

[noob]

McEnroe was a very controversial figure who had cocaine issues and was basically a giant ***. Evenepoel is a rather boring guy in comparison, I'm not seeing how there is a comparison between the two at all.

Their temper is similar. And their reasons for their temper tantrums seems similar. To my eyes it's not about entitlement as much as about wanting things to be "fair" and "just" and go according to plan etc. IE the "autistic" side of things rather than the "Lance" side of things.

I don't know if it's called "being square" in English. But that's what I relate them to in my native language.

 

[Riek s]

I agree on the discussion of TT, i always loved TTs and would love to get 100km TT back. But a course is a course, not every course will suit you, you don't need to alter every course to be more suited for a specific rider. (I know the GT are doing that). (But i do think a TTer needs to same boni seconds/points for the top3 as any other stage, for all i care you can add a sprint halfway)

Also i wouldn't say the Giro has 70km of typical TT, the last one is a MTT in the final weekend. It is not about a lot about aero position here, it is about the most fresh legs. And i'm not sure that would favor Remco out of the box, will depend on the feeling/remainder. (e.g. i wouldn't rule out a major win or a major beating in that stage)


On the discussion of the getting ahead of roglic so he can ride. I'm pretty sury you are aware that Roglic doesn't ride. Either he attacks and gets away or will never ever get in front of Remco. I wouldn't rule out that if Remco stays in his wheel and other escape, he would rather loose the GC than to ride in front of Remco. e.g. waiting when Remco chickens out and starts pulling eventually. (so both loosing GC if remco doesn't chicken out. I think that is the poker Roglic is willing to do.)

 

[Netserk]

Also i wouldn't say the Giro has 70km of typical TT, the last one is a MTT in the final weekend.

66 km of the ITTs are flat/rolling. Then Monte Lussari in addition.

 

[witeken]

I think as far as early season GC guys go, it's Pogacar >> Roglic /> Evenepoel >> Vingegaard, so far. Remco won UAE in the echelons, got outclimbed by Yates and wasn't able to drop Roglic this week, who won the Tirreno without a queen's stage. Pogacar was very dominant in every race he did, while Vingegaard was able to beat D-tier GC riders convincingly.

Uhm, so where did Pogacar 6.9W/kg and >1900VAM?

Next stop, the 7w/kg club? Climbing records continue to crumble in Catalunya

Primož Roglič, Remco Evenepoel record crushing climbing times at Volta a Catalunya as WorldTour continues to get faster.

www.cyclingtips.com

 

[Red Rick]

Uhm, so where did Pogacar 6.9W/kg and >1900VAM?

Next stop, the 7w/kg club? Climbing records continue to crumble in Catalunya

Primož Roglič, Remco Evenepoel record crushing climbing times at Volta a Catalunya as WorldTour continues to get faster.

www.cyclingtips.com

When has Pogacar ever done a climb so perfect for pure W/kg?

There's basically 2 ways to interpret this data point.

Either Almeida and Soler are better than Pogacar, or the super high numbers here don't say that much either

But if you really wanna hear about >1900 VAM, then Pog did that for 19 minutes in Sierra de Bernia in Valenciana 2020. He finished a whole 6 seconds ahead of a group of Poels, Dan Martin, TGH and Jack Haig

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Lodewyck, tactical fool, after his clumsy comparison between Evenepoel and Armstrong last year, is again adding fuel to the fire.

“Wat ik onthoud, is dat we in de lastigste rit, richting La Molina, Roglic hebben gekraakt”, zegt Lodewyck als het over de klimcapaciteiten van beide klassementsrenners gaat. “Mocht er nog vijf kilometer extra worden geklommen, kreeg hij een minuut aan zijn broek. Hoe meer beklimmingen onderweg, hoe beter voor Remco. De twee ritten waar Primoz goed presteerde, zijn die waar het heel de dag vlak was en die werden afgesloten met een halfuurtje klimmen. In de Giro zijn er een paar ritten met veel hoogtemeters. Ik ben er zeker van dat Primoz kan kraken als we hem daar vanaf het begin onder druk kunnen zetten.”

When is Quickstep going to either kick this idiot out the door, or put him on 1.1 races.

Uhm, so where did Pogacar 6.9W/kg and >1900VAM?

Next stop, the 7w/kg club? Climbing records continue to crumble in Catalunya

Primož Roglič, Remco Evenepoel record crushing climbing times at Volta a Catalunya as WorldTour continues to get faster.

www.cyclingtips.com

You obviously do realise that also GC superpower Soler and Almeida were close to those values, and that even 19 year old Lenny Martinez destroyed the previous record?

 

[Netserk]

19 year old Lenny Martinez destroyed the previous record?

He did not.

 

[Gratemans]

Lodewyck, tactical fool, after his clumsy comparison between Evenepoel and Armstrong last year, is again adding fuel to the fire.

“Wat ik onthoud, is dat we in de lastigste rit, richting La Molina, Roglic hebben gekraakt”, zegt Lodewyck als het over de klimcapaciteiten van beide klassementsrenners gaat. “Mocht er nog vijf kilometer extra worden geklommen, kreeg hij een minuut aan zijn broek. Hoe meer beklimmingen onderweg, hoe beter voor Remco. De twee ritten waar Primoz goed presteerde, zijn die waar het heel de dag vlak was en die werden afgesloten met een halfuurtje klimmen. In de Giro zijn er een paar ritten met veel hoogtemeters. Ik ben er zeker van dat Primoz kan kraken als we hem daar vanaf het begin onder druk kunnen zetten.”

When is Quickstep going to either kick this idiot out the door, or put him on 1.1 races.


You obviously do realise that also GC superpower Soler and Almeida were close to those values, and that even 19 year old Lenny Martinez destroyed the previous record?

Wow. As a DS everything you do should be to further the goals of your team. Nothing he says here, not a single word does anything to benefit his team. Quite baffling.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He did not.

Volta a Catalunya 5 - Remco E's 175.4 km bike ride

🥈 again at least WE tried saw a great team again!🐺

www.strava.com

Gaudu was 58 seconds slower than Valverde in 2017. His time was 74 seconds slower than 19 year old Lenny Martinez in 2023.

If not Valverde, please tell us who held the previous record instead of posting continuous drive-by comments with zero value.

 

[houtdffan]

Lodewyck, tactical fool, after his clumsy comparison between Evenepoel and Armstrong last year, is again adding fuel to the fire.

“Wat ik onthoud, is dat we in de lastigste rit, richting La Molina, Roglic hebben gekraakt”, zegt Lodewyck als het over de klimcapaciteiten van beide klassementsrenners gaat. “Mocht er nog vijf kilometer extra worden geklommen, kreeg hij een minuut aan zijn broek. Hoe meer beklimmingen onderweg, hoe beter voor Remco. De twee ritten waar Primoz goed presteerde, zijn die waar het heel de dag vlak was en die werden afgesloten met een halfuurtje klimmen. In de Giro zijn er een paar ritten met veel hoogtemeters. Ik ben er zeker van dat Primoz kan kraken als we hem daar vanaf het begin onder druk kunnen zetten.”

When is Quickstep going to either kick this idiot out the door, or put him on 1.1 races.


You obviously do realise that also GC superpower Soler and Almeida were close to those values, and that even 19 year old Lenny Martinez destroyed the previous record?

Not sure that is inaccurate. However, they need sustained tempo, and I'm not sure they can do that with their current team over several mountains

 

[Bolder]

McEnroe was a very controversial figure who had cocaine issues and was basically a giant ***. Evenepoel is a rather boring guy in comparison, I'm not seeing how there is a comparison between the two at all.

Mac was the most entertaining tennis player, ever. His "You cannot be serious" response to the réf is legendary.

(that said he's close to psychopathic!)

 

[Andy schleck]

You have to be one dumb fool

Like always, you have a lot of "respect" for everybody in this forum.
You don't learn with your mistakes.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Like always, you have a lot of "respect" for everybody in this forum.
You don't learn with your mistakes.

I'm sorry, i was not aware that Klaas Lodewyck was on the forum.
I was only trying to be less boring for @Elos Anjos

 

[Krzysztof_O]

When has Pogacar ever done a climb so perfect for pure W/kg?

There's basically 2 ways to interpret this data point.

Either Almeida and Soler are better than Pogacar, or the super high numbers here don't say that much either

But if you really wanna hear about >1900 VAM, then Pog did that for 19 minutes in Sierra de Bernia in Valenciana 2020. He finished a whole 6 seconds ahead of a group of Poels, Dan Martin, TGH and Jack Haig

It was a 12% muro and 5 minutes shorter. So no adequate comparison to an under 9% climb.

 

[houtdffan]

You have to be one dumb fool to extrapolate a 2s gap, that was established 100 meters from the line, to a 1 minute gap "had the climb been longer". Had the climb been longer Evenepoel would not have done an all out attack at the same point, hence Roglic would not have been dropped at the same point. Especially knowing what happened 2 days later. To do that as a DS shows you know nothing of cycling. To do that as a DS, make these kinds of statements in the press, shows you have no idea how to deal with these situations even IF it were true.

That's like a sprinter saying he would have won had the line been 100 meter further. No, had the line been 100 meter further, everybody would have started their sprint 100 meter later, including the guy he assumes he would have beaten.

Not saying a full minute. However, Remco does his best when he just tempo climbs. Sets a hard tempo that grinds his opponents into dust.

I wouldnt expect minutes on Rog. However, the tempo could drop him 1-2 km earlier and he could gain 15-20 seconds

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Not saying a full minute. However, Remco does his best when he just tempo climbs. Sets a hard tempo that grinds his opponents into dust.

I wouldnt expect minutes on Rog. However, the tempo could drop him 1-2 km earlier and he could gain 15-20 seconds

Since other people obviously did not find it clear, let me point out that i was not addressing you with that post, but that i was talking about Lodewyck.

I agree on how Evenepoel should stick mainly to his tempo, and only go along with tempo changes as a last resort. We have not yet seen them go toe to toe on multiple HC mountain stages when both are 100%. So it should be interesting.

 

[Andre]

I guess you grew up in the French speaking Walloon region then?

Flemish people are in general better English speakers than Walloons, because Dutch is more related to it than French. And we suffer less from the accent. Also, Flemish people younger than, let's say 60 years, became better in English than French, due to a shift in pop cultural habits (TV, music, etc ...) and in more recent generations the influence of the world wide web. In a way, the same goes for Walloon people with English compared to Dutch.

Remco is a native Dutch speaker. He is very fluent in French because of living close to Brussels and playing football at Anderlecht, and fluent in English because it's a normal thing for a Flemish person nowadays. And of course, he's a pro athlete working with international people, that helps too. He probably knows some Spanish from living and training there, and will understand some German and Italian as well.

Yes, I was born and grew up in the heart of Brussels. Plus in the schools English was just becoming a very interesting idea, but was not taught (at least not in my school). I had previously already learned English but not Flemish or more precisely Dutch. But you're right, Remco probably defends himself in Spanish as well...not sure about German.

 

[Andre]

In the stage where Remco lost 6 seconds, he did what a young Eddy Merckx would have done: attack.. Even Merckx came in second sometimes. So, conclusion, Remco is still the next Merckx. . Go Remco Go!!!

 

[Andre]

i understand but disagree with this narrative.

all-rounders always crushed the climbers in TTs. Merckx, Hinault, Indurain, Anquetil -- the riders with the most TDFs all crushed their opponents in TTs and largely "resisted" in the mountains.

the problem with today's routes is that instead of being happy with 2-4 possible GC winners, the designers believe that they need to have 10-15. so riders like landa, pinot, gaudu, mas etc... have been made to seem like GCers at some point in their career when really they are not.

you need only two evenly matched all-arounders to make a stage race exciting: Merckx vs. Ocana, Merckx vs. Thevenet, Hinault vs. Lemond, Hinault vs. Fignon. Lemond vs. Fignon. Pog vs. Rog. Pog vs. Vingo. Rog vs. Remco.

it is in trying to superficially create more contenders that route designers have diluted the test of stage racing.

good point

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I guess you grew up in the French speaking Walloon region then?

Flemish people are in general better English speakers than Walloons, because Dutch is more related to it than French. And we suffer less from the accent. Also, Flemish people younger than, let's say 60 years, became better in English than French, due to a shift in pop cultural habits (TV, music, etc ...) and in more recent generations the influence of the world wide web. In a way, the same goes for Walloon people with English compared to Dutch.

Remco is a native Dutch speaker. He is very fluent in French because of living close to Brussels and playing football at Anderlecht, and fluent in English because it's a normal thing for a Flemish person nowadays. And of course, he's a pro athlete working with international people, that helps too. He probably knows some Spanish from living and training there, and will understand some German and Italian as well.

I don't think that's quite accurate. Dutch is not closer to English than French. The reason why we generally are better at English is because our language footprint is so small. Other than the Dutch (from the Netherlands), nobody in Europe speaks Dutch. Movies get subtitled, not overdubbed, simply because the market is too small. Most movies/series on TV are in English, so ever since we are small, we are exposed to the English language much more. In Wallonia and other French speaking parts, they simply get the French overdubbed movies and series. It's mainly a question of economics. It wasn't worth the trouble to hire actors to dub every movie and serie on TV, because Netherlands+Flanders is simply too small.
Furthermore, due to the same reason (small market), there is less money to make original content in our own language, and again our TV networks are forced to buy (mainly English) content to show on TV. The main exception has usually been childrens movies (like Disney etc).

Wallonia also gets a plethora of talkshows from French networks, but also a lot of other cultural influences, like French music. For us, considering the Netherlands is a much smaller country than France, that also is much less so.

And, when we visit another country, people there don't speak Dutch. They usually understand English or French. So the French speaking part, needs to resort to another language far less yet again, than Dutch speakers.