Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Oldman]

The good news is, Evenepoel convincingly won the GC of this WCC. He easily beat Pogacar by 1m9s.

Reeeaalllllly. Because Tadej rode virtually by himself to 100km. He did a similar ride last year and kept his gap without blowing up. That's what a bike racer that has the WC RR jersey will do and not worry about putting more time into competitors not likely to get near him.
Two years in a row doing the same thing and Remco couldn't maintain contact on several climbs. He needs to be extremely satisfied salvaging 2nd place in the face of that reality.

 

[Red Rick]

Yes, Tadej has had challenges. He rode into a hole next to Remco and crashed, breaking his wrist. Pretty much ruined a season for him.
As for anyone riding into a hole and settling the saddle as a result; yes it can happen. Some bikes are more vulnerable and even with carbon-grip on the seatpost it's up to the rider to avoid such things. Bummer for Remco but the race would've turned out the same.

"Ruined season" is strange definition for being back racing before the Tour and going balls deep in the Tour, WC after that, and then the fall classics.

 

[AlpRaid]

That's a pointless exercise. None of Slovenia are gonna do anything significant, apart from Roglic, who basically isn't gonna do much more than be an anchor today either.

They simplified the race completely when they shoudl have made it as tricky as possible.

I guess I disagree.

Depending on what followed, having Pog alone doing the work as favorite would be the only way to potentially tire him out (fwiw, that's what Horner suggested).

The fact that Pog was able to be alone at the front (whether after Remco's seat issue/cramps or not, I don't care) of course changed everything, but hindsight is 20/20.

Imagine tho a scenario where Pog even drops Remco for 10-15 seconds on Mount Kigali. Remco, presumably without seat cramps, gets back and the attack stalls, creating a group of 12-20 at the front. Pog would be alone (apart from Rog who turned out to be somewhat "meh" and not sure how much he would have truly worked for Pog) in this group. Pog would have to close down most attacks, giving Remco the possibility of countering.

I am not saying it would have worked, but it may have been one of the only shots (and it would have also depended on Remco not going in guns blazing, but staying patient).

So it's not a black and white thing. It would have been a way of potentially getting a different outcome.

 

[Berniece]

Reeeaalllllly. Because Tadej rode virtually by himself to 100km. He did a similar ride last year and kept his gap without blowing up. That's what a bike racer that has the WC RR jersey will do and not worry about putting more time into competitors not likely to get near him.
Two years in a row doing the same thing and Remco couldn't maintain contact on several climbs. He needs to be extremely satisfied salvaging 2nd place in the face of that reality.

It’s a joke by adding time of the ITT and RR together.

 

[Red Rick]

It's quite unbelievable how despite doing far less work than Pogacar and losing time overall, RemCouldaWoulda Evenepoel remains undefeated.

 

[Oldman]

"Ruined season" is strange definition for being back racing before the Tour and going balls deep in the Tour, WC after that, and then the fall classics.

The recovery from that injury is all on Tadej. At the time he might have thought it would take out much of his season but he managed to race earlier than I'd guess. Maybe earlier than he should be he didn't make it worse. Luck and skill.

 

[AlpRaid]

Yes, Tadej has had challenges. He rode into a hole next to Remco and crashed, breaking his wrist. Pretty much ruined a season for him.

no. it certainly affected that LBL, so one race. He was scheduled to take a break after LBL anyway.

And, I will give you that it likely caused his "I'm dead" at the TDF that year, because he may not have been able to have the foundation to last fully the 3 weeks. Then again, Vingo had beaten Pog the year before and was winning again -- this was not 2024 Pog.

It certainly did not "ruin a season for him". That is completely ridiculous.

He has had one small setback, that happened to coincide with a planned break. The only win he may have missed on from his wins that year is LBL. Hardly "ruined his season", LOL!

 

[Oldman]

no. it certainly affected that LBL, so one race. He was scheduled to take a break after LBL anyway.

And, I will give you that it likely caused his "I'm dead" at the TDF that year, because he may not have been able to have the foundation to last fully the 3 weeks. Then again, Vingo had beaten Pog the year before and was winning again -- this was not 2024 Pog.

It certainly did not "ruin a season for him". That is completely ridiculous.

He has had one small setback, that happened to coincide with a planned break. The only win he may have missed on from his wins that year is LBL. Hardly "ruined his season", LOL!

LOL; I should have mentioned the "ruined" is more the portrayal other rider's fans would've granted their favorites. It's not "ridiculous" in that context. But you can be right by the context I stated it.
Not what actually happened to Tadej, of course.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

The good news is, Evenepoel convincingly won the GC of this WCC. He easily beat Pogacar by 1m9s.

Well they actually both lost to Seixas by not riding the mixed relay.

 

[hayneplane]

I guess I disagree.

Depending on what followed, having Pog alone doing the work as favorite would be the only way to potentially tire him out (fwiw, that's what Horner suggested).

The fact that Pog was able to be alone at the front (whether after Remco's seat issue/cramps or not, I don't care) of course changed everything, but hindsight is 20/20.

Imagine tho a scenario where Pog even drops Remco for 10-15 seconds on Mount Kigali. Remco, presumably without seat cramps, gets back and the attack stalls, creating a group of 12-20 at the front. Pog would be alone (apart from Rog who turned out to be somewhat "meh" and not sure how much he would have truly worked for Pog) in this group. Pog would have to close down most attacks, giving Remco the possibility of countering.

I am not saying it would have worked, but it may have been one of the only shots (and it would have also depended on Remco not going in guns blazing, but staying patient).

So it's not a black and white thing. It would have been a way of potentially getting a different outcome.

Is this a scenario where the race skips the Mur de Kigali so no chance for Pogacar to simply wreck the field again.

 

[Cycling111]

The last 400m was when it got very difficult. Where is the evidence that 2025 Remco can hang with Pog on a climb?

Never. Not 2025 or any other year. Remco hasn't even been able to stay on Pogacar's wheel on a climb like Ayuso.
Not on any mountain in the Tour, not in Lombardy, not in Liège, not in Dauphiné, not in Tirreno Adriatico...

He wasn't faster than him on any lap, even though he was more accompanied on most of them.
Well, yes, on the one where he was behind the car, he was 40 seconds faster. Ireland or Denmark could claim it.

After a whole week of using the word "humiliation," this must have been tough.

We should celebrate a victory more than someone else's defeat, and we should talk less about humiliation because when the opposite happens, we have to look for scenarios that haven't existed.
There isn't a single mountain where Remco has followed Pogacar's wheel. We're not even talking about winning, but following his wheel. What happened on Mont Kigali was the same as always on a mountain.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1972397051108569560

View: https://x.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1972397051108569560

 

[Gratemans]

I genuinely do not think so. It's the way I see it. I was harsh on Pogacar last week. This doesn't have anything to do with me being a fan or not.
For me and I already said multiple times, Remco has a big ego and was used to destroy (and win) every race he entered since he was a junior. He grew up winning easily, "without" effort and even if he is winning big here and there, it's far from what we expected when he was a junior. This kid was the biggest young rider ever and by far.
This is why I think it's very hard for him, he is getting the same feeling (now against Pogacar, specially since 2024) his rivals had in his junior years.

I can't be bothered to pull up the Morgan Freeman picture, but Peyroteo is right you know.

He just couldn't put out the watts on the real climb.
The pothole story that made his saddle straight instead of the very small angle he's used to... Come on. Thats just embarrassing.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Reeeaalllllly. Because Tadej rode virtually by himself to 100km.

I see you are new to the concept of general classifications as well as sarcasm.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I can't be bothered to pull up the Morgan Freeman picture, but Peyroteo is right you know.

He just couldn't put out the watts on the real climb.
The pothole story that made his saddle straight instead of the very small angle he's used to... Come on. Thats just embarrassing.

Ah, you were there and can tell us about the watts he was pushing, as is evident by your completely twisting the facts. Him riding into a pothole didn't put his saddle straight. It made the saddle DROP DOWN. He had to climb the entire Mount Kigali like that, then Mur de Kigali. After that he changed bikes. The SECOND BIKE had the saddle at a wrong angle (according to him). That the saddle had dropped on his first bike was already confirmed by his mechanic DURING THE RACE.

 

[houtdffan]

there wouldn't have been a 10-15man group had Remco stayed with Pog

Remco and Pog would have dropped Del Toro far earlier and went alone. Pog drops Remco on the second to last cobbled climb and wins by 20-30 seconds.

Only difference is, 3rd place may have been 10 minutes behind

 

[Gratemans]

Ah, you were there and can tell us about the watts he was pushing, as is evident by your completely twisting the facts. Him riding into a pothole didn't put his saddle straight. It made the saddle DROP DOWN. He had to climb the entire Mount Kigali like that, then Mur de Kigali. After that he changed bikes. The SECOND BIKE had the saddle at a wrong angle (according to him). That the saddle had dropped on his first bike was already confirmed by his mechanic DURING THE RACE.

Yeah whatever. 'Bad luck' like this surely seems to strike only one rider in the peloton this much.
Give me a break. He just couldn't hack it.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Ah, you were there and can tell us about the watts he was pushing, as is evident by your completely twisting the facts. Him riding into a pothole didn't put his saddle straight. It made the saddle DROP DOWN. He had to climb the entire Mount Kigali like that, then Mur de Kigali. After that he changed bikes. The SECOND BIKE had the saddle at a wrong angle (according to him). That the saddle had dropped on his first bike was already confirmed by his mechanic DURING THE RACE.

Look, we’ve all seen Remco have at least one imaginary mechanical and go to pieces about small things. We’ve also seen him repeatedly completely fold mentally when he unexpectedly isn’t as strong as someone who is attacking him. In the 2024 Tour, he didn’t expect to be able to ride with Vinge/Pog in the high mountains, so he didn’t collapse when they attacked. But when he expects to be there and he finds himself on the back foot, I think he really struggles. I’m not saying his seat didn’t shift slightly; maybe it did. But I went back and watched and it is not visible to my eye. His leg angle looks completely normal. What was actually odd is that he stayed seated while everyone around him stood up. If everyone else thinks the steepness of the climb is best attacked out of the saddle, and your seat is so low you’re incapable of riding with normal power, why would you stay seated? Clearly either a bad decision or he didn’t have the legs in the key moment on the long steep hard climb and he panicked and latched onto this idea that his seat had lowered and that was the explanation for dropping back.

Bailing on his second bike, which also looked normal and was confirmed as correct by his mechanic was a further sign that the biggest issue was some combination of his climbing legs and his head. Choosing to stand there for 30 seconds kicking rocks was certainly strange.

I honestly think that when he believes he is the best, his brain cannot accept the idea that someone else has proved otherwise and so it latched onto anything else that can explain it to him. That attribute also makes him great in many ways, but he needs to work on emotional control. I don’t think it would have changed the outcome today,

For those that said, If Ayudo and Del Toro can hang, so could have Remco: 1) Those guys are very good at short, violent efforts; 2) Ayuso immediately popped on the other side and Del Toro didn’t make it much farther, so there’s a big difference between “can hang wit Pogacar on a climb 100km from the finish if I act like it’s the finish line” and “can hang with Pogacar on a climb 100km from the finish if I’m trying to win the race.”

 

[Oldman]

I see you are new to the concept of general classifications as well as sarcasm.

Actually, no. My sarcasm is taking a back seat only to my cynicism. You could just call me stupid and I'd understand....

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Look, we’ve all seen Remco have at least one imaginary mechanical and go to pieces about small things. We’ve also seen him repeatedly completely fold mentally when he unexpectedly isn’t as strong as someone who is attacking him. In the 2024 Tour, he didn’t expect to be able to ride with Vinge/Pog in the high mountains, so he didn’t collapse when they attacked. But when he expects to be there and he finds himself on the back foot, I think he really struggles. I’m not saying his seat didn’t shift slightly; maybe it did. But I went back and watched and it is not visible to my eye. His leg angle looks completely normal. What was actually odd is that he stayed seated while everyone around him stood up. If everyone else thinks the steepness of the climb is best attacked out of the saddle, and your seat is so low you’re incapable of riding with normal power, why would you stay seated? Clearly either a bad decision or he didn’t have the legs in the key moment on the long steep hard climb and he panicked and latched onto this idea that his seat had lowered and that was the explanation for dropping back.

Bailing on his second bike, which also looked normal and was confirmed as correct by his mechanic was a further sign that the biggest issue was some combination of his climbing legs and his head. Choosing to stand there for 30 seconds kicking rocks was certainly strange.

I honestly think that when he believes he is the best, his brain cannot accept the idea that someone else has proved otherwise and so it latched onto anything else that can explain it to him. That attribute also makes him great in many ways, but he needs to work on emotional control. I don’t think it would have changed the outcome today,

For those that said, If Ayudo and Del Toro can hang, so could have Remco: 1) Those guys are very good at short, violent efforts; 2) Ayuso immediately popped on the other side and Del Toro didn’t make it much farther, so there’s a big difference between “can hang wit Pogacar on a climb 100km from the finish if I act like it’s the finish line” and “can hang with Pogacar on a climb 100km from the finish if I’m trying to win the race.”

You are all free to fantasise what you believe happened or would have happened, the fact of the matter is that his saddle did drop. Nobody knows how much but i doubt you could tell by the naked eye from a helicopter shot or whatever. None of us know how much that impacted him, regardless of how far the saddle dropped. His second bike change was a lot more suspect, he could simply have idled another 200 meters and wait for the car to catch up with him, if it was even needed. Everybody agrees here. But let's just not lie about the facts, like Gratemans was doing.

Actually, no. My sarcasm is taking a back seat only to my cynicism. You could just call me stupid and I'd understand....

Riding solo or not does not matter for a GC. And i wasn't completely serious as there is no GC during the WCC....

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

None of us have facts. The only facts are:

• Remco smashed the ITT and Pogi
• Many thought he was too heavy to win the RR (I was not among them, FWIW)
• Remco was on Pogi’s wheel until he accelerated
• Remco’s saddle was not visibly lower, however it is fair to qualify this as an opinion, not a true fact, as others might say it looks lower (I welcome someone to show me a photo that indicates it is)
• Remco said his seat lowered when he hit a pothole, though, as you pointed out, he did not say by how much
• Remco also said the seat on his second bike was off
• Remco’s mechanic disputed that claim
• Remco appeared much stronger after he regrouped, but the hills were also easier
• Pogacar was faster on the climbs the last few laps, and had faster lap times

Really it’s all open to interpretation. Your interpretation is that Remco not only was telling the truth, which I also believe, but that he was correct in stating that he dropped because his seat was too low because he hit a pothole. Other interpretations are also valid, given that we don’t know how much his seat dropped, if at all, how much his power was impacted, etc. Either way, it was a really strong ride. Gold and silver is very impressive. If he can avoid an offseason crash he should be stronger physically this year. Increasing his mental strength might be enough to beat Pogacar. Everything outside the bullets is of course my opinion only.

 

[Berniece]

None of us have facts. The only facts are:

• Remco’s saddle was not visibly lower, however it is fair to qualify this as an opinion, not a true fact, as others might say it looks lower (I welcome someone to show me a photo that indicates it is)

• 
  How is it not a fact when his mechanic confirms this?

 

[Berniece]

Have you seen how many people are willing to confirm XXXXs “facts”?

That’s not an argument. If we can’t go by the experts anymore, what’s the point. Discussion is over then.

If you want to pretend it’s completely normal for Evenepoel to be dropped there, fine. It was a 5km climb and they didn’t even went that hard before Pogacar launched. Which is why Del Toro and Ayuso were able to follow. Something only Vingegaard has been able to do in best form.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

That’s not an argument. If we can’t go by the experts anymore, what’s the point. Discussion is over then.

If you want to pretend it’s completely normal for Evenepoel to be dropped there, fine. It was a 5km climb and they didn’t even went that hard before Pogacar launched. Which is why Del Toro and Ayuso were able to follow. Something only Vingegaard has been able to do in best form.

Fair enough. Do you have a link to exactly what the mechanic said? This source says his saddle “slipped.”

https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling/there-was-nothing-wrong-with-his-second-bike-belgian-camp-confused-by-remco-evenepoels-mid-race-frustrations-en-route-to-silver-in-kigali

Here Remco says it “completely collapsed” and in reference to the second bike, a mechanic says it was normal and Remco’s issue with it was due to “frustration.” I don’t see the quote confirming his first bike was bad.

Evenepoel and His Road Race Dream Unravel in Mechanical Meltdown: 'My Saddle Collapsed'

Evenepoel vents frustration in spectacular fashion as he suffers costly slow bike change at Rwanda road worlds: 'l felt like I was in excellent shape.'

velo.outsideonline.com

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Also, this quote is classic Remco, and why I think he just can’t conceive of being worse in these type of races; it must be because of some external factor. He’s had at least two known phantom mechanicals in major races in the last 13 months (OGRR and the second WCRR bike issue this year). But this is his takeaway:

"In the end, it's just something that happens in the race, because I think Tadej is one minute twenty ahead of me and I'm also a minute ahead of the guys behind me, so it shows that my shape was very good this week, that the legs were there, but just some bad luck did not allow me to take my double today."

And I think he truly believes that, and truly believes the mechanicals are all real. But what I think he struggles with is loss of control, and this is a bigger issue than that first mechanical. Vingegaard used to really struggle with that. Remember that bike swapping fiasco in 2022? But he seems to have pushed through it and is better able to roll with the punches now. Remco did recover this time, at least, rather than throw in the towel like in LBL this year, but he didn’t help himself.

 

[Berniece]

Fair enough. Do you have a link to exactly what the mechanic said? This source says his saddle “slipped.”

https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling/there-was-nothing-wrong-with-his-second-bike-belgian-camp-confused-by-remco-evenepoels-mid-race-frustrations-en-route-to-silver-in-kigali

Here Remco says it “completely collapsed” and in reference to the second bike, a mechanic says it was normal and Remco’s issue with it was due to “frustration.” I don’t see the quote confirming his first bike was bad.

Evenepoel and His Road Race Dream Unravel in Mechanical Meltdown: 'My Saddle Collapsed'

Evenepoel vents frustration in spectacular fashion as he suffers costly slow bike change at Rwanda road worlds: 'l felt like I was in excellent shape.'

velo.outsideonline.com

Mechanic saying everything was fine about the 2nd bike. He confirmed issues with the first one.