Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[bNator]

Yes, but in the current peloton. Not in the peloton of 2023 of course. How much time do you think Pogacar '25 would've finished before Pogacar '23, in the UEC RR?

Because in 2023 Pogacar finished 1min ahead of Bagioli in Lombardia '23. Also small side note, Pogacar didn't win SB in 2023.

Inter-season comparisons are useless IMO. What the poster you replied to was getting at was that Remco should do a jump relative to the field, not in absolute terms. At least that’s how I understood it. They are all getting better in absolute terms all the time, except maybe 2024 -> 2025 due to CO inhalation prohibition

 

[Salvarani]

You are aware he is saying before 2024, right?

Maybe Remco should have spent more time training, rather than decompress.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

You are aware he is saying before 2024, right?

Yes yes he's aware.
Didn't you know Pogacar was known for his long breakaways in flat races back in 2022 and 2023?

 

[Berniece]

Yes yes he's aware.
Didn't you know Pogacar was known for his long breakaways in flat races back in 2022 and 2023?

He did 1 in 2022 as far as I can remember, Strade Bianche. He Valverde at the age of 42 and Kasper Asgreen 50km's before the finish in a race with 3100 meters of altitude.

 

[Red Rick]

If anything I'm mostly astounded by the continuous tactical ineptitude. Basically rolling out the carpet for Pogacar every race.

 

[Berniece]

If anything I'm mostly astounded by the continuous tactical ineptitude. Basically rolling out the carpet for Pogacar every race.

That's just the arrogance of thinking he is as good as Pogacar

 

[AmRacer]

You are welcome I guess... I'll stop contributing to the forum in a meaningful way, so Pogacar fans can keep me on their ignore list. Because apparently that's more important.

I'm not putting anyone on my ignore list.

 

[ChasingPotatoes]

That's just the arrogance of thinking he is as good as Pogacar

I don't think it's arrogance. Remco is somewhere here:
The seven stages of grief are a conceptual framework of emotions experienced after a loss, including shock and denial, pain and guilt, anger and bargaining, depression, the upward turn, reconstruction, and acceptance and hope.

Or better said, he hasn't fully gone through all of those phases, and he avoided looking into his shortcomings through most of the phases. Remco still thinks, that, if everything is set up right, he is Pog's equal.
After Sunday, he finally understood that isn't the case (he didn't understand so after Kigali, because he thought: "what if my saddle didn't shift? I could have gone mano-a-mano" --> not realizing Pog would probably drop him like a stone on one of the cobbled climbs)

But in understanding he is not as good as Pog, he is now facing a dilemma: change his race tactics (not racing like you're pretending you're the best and let your team work for you that way), or try harder at following Pog. It seems Remco will try to do the latter. This can be seen as either brave, or stupid. It could be brave if it works, if only once. But it's more likely that this tactics will prove to be stupid.

But even if Remco is stupid, we have to ask ourselves if we would like to have it any other way? And if we shouldn't support any rider that still has the ambition to try and combat Pog. Because most have given up... Most riders are racing for second, the moment Pog goes. Is it that what we want?

 

[BubbaChuck]

pog focused on long climbing in 2024 and did season with ton of stage racing and climbing.just sayin,lol.

 

[Berniece]

But in understanding he is not as good as Pog, he is now facing a dilemma: change his race tactics (not racing like you're pretending you're the best and let your team work for you that way), or try harder at following Pog. It seems Remco will try to do the latter. This can be seen as either brave, or stupid. It could be brave if it works, if only once. But it's more likely that this tactics will prove to be stupid.

But even if Remco is stupid, we have to ask ourselves if we would like to have it any other way? And if we shouldn't support any rider that still has the ambition to try and combat Pog. Because most have given up... Most riders are racing for second, the moment Pog goes. Is it that what we want?

You are right, that's definitely not what we want. Evenepoel should work hard, and try to get better. I still believe he can win anything he wants if he could only stay on the bike.

 

[BubbaChuck]

remco will be fine,dont worry.i expect him to go beserk next year.he just needs to remind himself,he si trying to beat pogacar,not ganna.remco would be closer to pog without that horrific injury and being stuck in soudal.people around remco needs to wake up and he needs to grow up and get smart.what are they thinking,lmao.

 

[ChasingPotatoes]

I'm curious if Remco can improve at his new team. We all saw that Pog upped his game even more in the last 2 years, so if there is room for improvement in Remco's legs or mind, I hope it's developed within the Red Bull environment.

 

[Netserk]

Don't forget the motos in Kigali since Logic is mentioning 2023 AGR.

Amstel is such a dumb point. Healy attacked Pidcock after sharing the load with him in the pursuit of Pogi, and initially went above what he could sustain. We saw the same with Evenepoel in Kigali where he gained time on Pogi after he went away solo, but as soon as he had to do a sustained effort without a moto in front of him the gap went out again.

So on Bemelerberg and afterwards Pogi increased the gap to Healy again as he could sustain a higher tempo.

 

[Barkintheeye]

But even if Remco is stupid, we have to ask ourselves if we would like to have it any other way? And if we shouldn't support any rider that still has the ambition to try and combat Pog. Because most have given up... Most riders are racing for second, the moment Pog goes. Is it that what we want?

Arrogance is a certain kind of stupid that can only be medicated by self-retrospection. One day - after having lost numerous races to Pog and others - he just might realize that humility is a good thing and will make you stronger in the long run.

 

[Berniece]

Amstel is such a dumb point. Healy attacked Pidcock after sharing the load with him in the pursuit of Pogi, and initially went above what he could sustain. We saw the same with Evenepoel in Kigali where he gained time on Pogi after he went away solo, but as soon as he had to do a sustained effort without a moto in front of him the gap went out again.

So on Bemelerberg and afterwards Pogi increased the gap to Healy again as he could sustain a higher tempo.

Thing is that Healy might have closed the gap before it would've increased again, but that chance was stole due to the long draft Pogacar got.

 

[Shortcut]

Literally cooked him in AGR this year. Pogacar barely took a turn, and had to sit in the wheel because he was so cooked.

He cooked him but finished behind him? Why was he 1 min behind Pogacar in middle of the race? Why does he always need someone to help him catch Pogacar? Like this year at Amstel, WC and EC, if he is able to drop him on flat, why doesn't he catch him alone? And what was the result him going all in (with again Skjelmose), he went so in the red that he totally blowed up FW and LBL.

 

[Netserk]

I don't think it's arrogance. Remco is somewhere here:
The seven stages of grief are a conceptual framework of emotions experienced after a loss, including shock and denial, pain and guilt, anger and bargaining, depression, the upward turn, reconstruction, and acceptance and hope.

Or better said, he hasn't fully gone through all of those phases, and he avoided looking into his shortcomings through most of the phases. Remco still thinks, that, if everything is set up right, he is Pog's equal.
After Sunday, he finally understood that isn't the case (he didn't understand so after Kigali, because he thought: "what if my saddle didn't shift? I could have gone mano-a-mano" --> not realizing Pog would probably drop him like a stone on one of the cobbled climbs)

But in understanding he is not as good as Pog, he is now facing a dilemma: change his race tactics (not racing like you're pretending you're the best and let your team work for you that way), or try harder at following Pog. It seems Remco will try to do the latter. This can be seen as either brave, or stupid. It could be brave if it works, if only once. But it's more likely that this tactics will prove to be stupid.

But even if Remco is stupid, we have to ask ourselves if we would like to have it any other way? And if we shouldn't support any rider that still has the ambition to try and combat Pog. Because most have given up... Most riders are racing for second, the moment Pog goes. Is it that what we want?

Racing smart and racing for second is not the same.

Colbrelli didn't race for second, but he knew what he needed to do to win.

Evenepoel is vain enough to pull through, control the race and make it hard. Make it as "fair" a test of strength as possible. But he is not brave enough to suck wheel. To race negatively. To be seen as calculated, cold and opportunistic. Only the bravest dare risk their image like that.

 

[Shortcut]

Considering Pogacar in 2022 couldn't drop Mas, I'm sure he wouldn't have dropped Evenepoel. And even if Evenepoel wouldn't have been able to drop Pogacar on La Redoute, he could very well have cooked him on the flat after and drop him on Roche aux Faucons.

So he was NEVER dropped against MvDP at RVV, NEVER dropped at GdL and he was NEVER dropped at LBL. Not even once... we have never seen that. Since 2021(!!!) on those races we have never seen it. We have also NEVER seen Remco outsprinting Pogacar. But somehow that would happen exactly in those two years.

 

[Berniece]

He cooked him but finished behind him? Why was he 1 min behind Pogacar in middle of the race? Why does he always need someone to help him catch Pogacar? Like this year at Amstel, WC and EC, if he is able to drop him on flat, why doesn't he catch him alone? And what was the result him going all in (with again Skjelmose), he went so in the red that he totally blowed up FW and LBL.

Who is saying he's able to drop him on the flat? No one is saying that.

 

[ChasingPotatoes]

Racing smart and racing for second is not the same.

Colbrelli didn't race for second, but he knew what he needed to do to win.

Evenepoel is vain enough to pull through, control the race and make it hard. Make it as "fair" a test of strength as possible. But he is not brave enough to suck wheel. To race negatively. To be seen as calculated, cold and opportunistic. Only the bravest dare risk their image like that.

Remco is too much of a pleaser for his fans. He has to focus on unleashing his inner Rebellin.

 

[Netserk]

Remco is too much of a pleaser for his fans. He has to focus on unleashing his inner Rebellin.

He has to break bad. Become the anti-hero.

 

[BubbaChuck]

''tactics died with Ronde van Vlaanderen 2023 when you had a group of Pedersen, Jorgenson, Vermeersch, Küng, Wright, Asgreen, Narvaez going into second last Kwaremont with over two minutes and they got MOWN down'' lmao,so true.

 

[peterfin]

Pogacar 2022-2023 30-40min climbs were in the 6.1 - 6.4 w/kg range, similar to Remco's 2022-2023/3 (Catalunya) period. Since 2024, Pog has increased to 6.7-6.9 w/kg, so almost 10%, while remco's peak is around 6.4-6.5 w/kg (TdF 2024).

Source: watts2win (not perfect but it's a relative comparison and aggregate numbers)

This is just one metric but it gives clear facts about what we are talking about, when Logic or others compare Pogacar 2022-2023 vs Pogacar 2024-2025 and relative to Remco.

If we take the hypothesis accepted by the majority of the cycling world, basically that this is due much better training methods at UAE combined with marginal gains, we should also accept that this competitive edge is not durable. Other teams, especially those with the financial means, will catch up. As Pogacar and Evenepoel were close prior to Pogacar's upgrade at UAE, there is no reason to believe Remco cannot improve a lot too and challenge him in the future.

The reasoning above is why many here still believe Remco can catch up. There is nothing "disillusional" about this argument. Any reference to race anecdotes, relative wins or whatever does not change the argument that Pogacar boosted his performance and that this boost is not a competitive edge he will keep. The general improvement of the UAE team shows that this edge is not personal but general applicable.

 

[gunara]

Inter-season comparisons are useless IMO.

But Remco's fans have always obsessed by it since May 2021. In the past, it's because he's seen as being not as good as before. And now that he's good again, it's because someone else has become too good for him.

 

[Salvarani]

Pogacar 2022-2023 30-40min climbs were in the 6.1 - 6.4 w/kg range, similar to Remco's 2022-2023/3 (Catalunya) period. Since 2024, Pog has increased to 6.7-6.9 w/kg, so almost 10%, while remco's peak is around 6.4-6.5 w/kg (TdF 2024).

Source: watts2win (not perfect but it's a relative comparison and aggregate numbers)

This is just one metric but it gives clear facts about what we are talking about, when Logic or others compare Pogacar 2022-2023 vs Pogacar 2024-2025 and relative to Remco.

If we take the hypothesis accepted by the majority of the cycling world, basically that this is due much better training methods at UAE combined with marginal gains, we should also accept that this competitive edge is not durable. Other teams, especially those with the financial means, will catch up. As Pogacar and Evenepoel were close prior to Pogacar's upgrade at UAE, there is no reason to believe Remco cannot improve a lot too and challenge him in the future.

The reasoning above is why many here still believe Remco can catch up. There is nothing "disillusional" about this argument. Any reference to race anecdotes, relative wins or whatever does not change the argument that Pogacar boosted his performance and that this boost is not a competitive edge he will keep. The general improvement of the UAE team shows that this edge is not personal but general applicable.

It is not as simple as that and I dont see other UAE riders beating Pog atm.

They have also recruited some of the best talents and best riders from other teams.

Wellens was always a good rider, Narvaez was being underrated at both Soudal and then really bloomed out in his last season with Ineos before moving on to UAE, Yates has been a great rider for +10 years, Majka as well before only being a super-dom... the list can go on. Like McNulty was highly rated very early on. This is not simply by luck or some other things.

There is a lot of factors involved why they have been dominating in the last couple or a few years, but some are too lazy to acknowledge it.